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CONYERSATIONS, 



DISCUSSIONS AND ANECDOTES 



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THOMAS STORY. 



COMPILED BY . , «l 1 

J. eichaSdson. 



NATHL. EICHAKDSON 



PHILADELPHIA: 
PUBLISHED BY T. ELLWOOD ZELL, 

439 MARKET STREET. 
1860. 



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MEARS & DTJSENBERY. STEREOTTPERS. 



SMITH & PETERS, PRINTERS. 



CONTENTS. 



CHAPTER I. — A DiNNEB Party at Carlisle, England, 
Transubstantiation Page 11 

CHAPTER II. — Dr. Gilpin, of Scaleby Castle, England. 
The Lord's Supper 14 

CHAPTER III.— A Prejudiced Priest. 
The Resurrection 23 

CHAPTER IV.— Dining on a Tithe Goose. 
Maintenance of Ministers ....... 24 

CHAPTER v.— John Kerb. 
Freedom from Sin 26 

CHAPTER VI.— William Falconer's. 
Divisions among the (so called) Christians . . .28 

CHAPTER VII.— George Keith. 
The Ascension 33 

CHAPTER VIII.— The Countess of Carlisle. 
The Sacraments, Women's Preaching, etc 35 

CHAPTER IX.— A Ferry-Boat. 
Christian Manners, etc ". . 39 

CHAPTER X. — Sir Thomas Liddel, Ravensworth Castle. 
Profession .41 

CHAPTER XL— A Stranger Priest. 

Baptism .45 

(3) 



IV CONTENTS. 

CHAPTER XII. — Czar of Muscovy and Peince Menzikoff, etc. 
Flattering Titles and Tribute, etc. . . . . .46 

CHAPTER XIII. — A Gentlewoman at Shannigary Castle. 
Special Providences ........ 52 

CHAPTER XIV.— The Dean of Limerick. 
Silent Worship, etc . . .54 

CHAPTER XV. — A Trader prom London — Cedar Point, 

Virginia. 

Circumcision and Baptism 63 

CHAPTER XVL — A Champion in Disguise — Stanford, Con- 
necticut. 

Predestination . 68 

CHAPTER XVII. — KiLLiNGswoRTH Inn, Connecticut — Landlord 

AND Others. 
Freedom from Sin . . . 88 

CHAPTER XVIII. — A Public Discussion with Joseph Ring, 

Aims BURY. 

Inspired Ministry . v 89 

CHAPTER XIX. — Abraham Parker, Killingsworth. 
Sinless State in this Life 106 

CHAPTER XX.— Sexton, Stonington. 
The Sacraments ......... 117 

CHAPTER XXI, — Captain William Bassett, Rochester 
War 120 

CHAPTER XXII.— Rollon-God Cotton, a Priest. 
A Holy Life, the Ministry, etc. 122 

CHAPTER XXIII.— A Young Man at Scituate. 
Salvation of Infants, etc 179 

CHAPTER XXIV.— Colonel Dudly, Governor. 
On War . * .182 



CONTENTS. V 

CHAPTER XXV.— John Cotton, a Presbyterian. 
Baptism and the Supper 185 

CHAPTER XXVI.— Major Pike. 
Trial of Spirits 186 

CHAPTER XXVII.— An Ob.jector. 
Women's Preaching 190 

CHAPTER XXVIII.— A Priest. 
Creation and Nature of Man 196 

CHAPTER XXIX.— An Ancient Man. 
On Women's Preaching 210 

CHAPTER XXX.— A Baptist Teacher. 
Christianity and War 215 

CHAPTER XXXI.— John Hall. 
The Baptismal Vow 221 

CHAPTER XXXII.— An Opposer. 
Freedom from Sin 226 

CHAPTER XXXIII.— A French Priest. 
Perfection in this Life ....... 239 

CHAPTER XXXIV.— The French Priest again. 
The Lord's Prayer 243 

CHAPTER XXXV.— A Jesuit. Port Loyal, West Indies. 
Christ the True Light 285 

CHAPTER XXXVI.— A Stranger. Twisk, Holland. 
Water Baptism 288 

CHAPTER XXXVII.— Countess of Kildare. 
Beauty of Plain Dress 292 

CHAPTER XXXVIII.— Curate of Thirles. 
Who are Schismatics 294 

X* 



VI CONTENTS. 

CHAPTER XXXIX.— Company on the Road to Kilkenny. 
Transubstantiation 298 

CHAPTER XL.— An Elderly Widow. 
Resurrection 304 

CHAPTER XLI.— Earl of Carlisle. 
Fruits op Quakerism 309 

CHAPTER XLII.— Lord Lonsdale. 
Knowledge of God 320 

CHAPTER XLIII.— Lord Lonsdale. 
Tithes and Maintenance 326 

CHAPTER XLIV.— Earl of Carlisle. 
Troubles and Temptations 330 

CHAPTER XLV.— Earl of Carlisle. 
Ceremonies of the National Church 333 

CHAPTER XLVI. — The Earls of Carlisle and Sunderland. 
The Affirmation Act . 337 

CHAPTER XLVII. — ^William Wake, Archbishop of Canterbury. 
The Affirmation Act 342 

CHAPTER XLVIIL— The Bishop of York. Sir William Dawes, 

Bart. 

The Affirmation Act 349 

CHAPTER XLIX. — Dr. Bradford, Bishop of Carlisle. 
The Affirmation Act 357 

CHAPTER L.— The Duke of Somerset. 
The Affirmation Act 361 



INTRODUCTION, 



<^n 



The conversations related in the ensuing pages, transpired 
near a century and a half ago. But the subjects of which they 
treat have not grown old with time, nor has the light then shed 
upon them faded with the roll of years. 

The powers of intellect, the clearness and cogency of argument 
here exhibited, have rarely been surpassed, and have lost none 
of their original vigor or of their genuine merit by the lapse of 
years. Time writes no wrinkles on the brow of religious princi- 
ples, nor have the errors here combated become by age less 
injurious to the welfare of the present, than they were to a 
former generation. 

The work therefore, has the freshness, the interest, and the 
practical utility, of a work of yesterday, and will, perhaps, be 
even more acceptable to the reader, from being clothed in the 
strong, direct, yet classic language of a bygone age. 

Thomas Story was educated in the way of the National Church, 
and was trained in the fashionable accomplishments of an English 
gentleman of that period. He speaks of his acknowledged pro- 
ficiency in the sword exercise, and of devoting some attention to 
music. A writer says of him : " He was a man of excellent 
understanding, and highly educated, and had particularly applied 

(7) 



Vm INTRODUCTION. 

part of his time to the study of Natural History and the physical 
nature of things." 

At a proper age he was placed with a counsellor to study law, 
intending to enter one of the Inns of Court to finish ; but his 
sense of religious duty turned him from this course, and joining, 
from conviction, with the people called Quakers, he became a 
minister among them and to multitudes of others, of the gospel 
of Christ. 

He travelled extensively in Europe and America in the prose- 
cution of this, as he believed, divine mission, and underwent many 
hardships, dangers, and privations. In one of his many voyages 

he was captured by a French privateer, and was for a time* > 

* W 
detained a prisoner at a French port. 

But his abilities and excellencies as a minister, were not all 
that rendered him conspicuous; whilst in America, having finished 
a religious engagement, he was solicited by William Penn to 
remain and take some charge of his affairs in Pennsylvania, and 
yielding his consent, he was appointed Keeper of the Seal, Master 
of the Rolls, a member of the Council, and was the first Recorder 
of the city of Philadelphia, named as such in the first city 
charter, 1701. 

In 1706 he married Anne, daughter of Edward Shippen, mayor 
of Philadelphia ; this marriage connection continued about six 
years, she dying in 1712. In 1706 he was chosen mayor of 
Philadelphia, but declining to serve was fined £20 by the common 
council. But beside his assiduous attention to the duties of the 
several offices which he did accept, he appears to have led a life 
of great activity, being almost constantly engaged in religious 
services of an arduous character. 

The business which he followed for a maintenance both in 
England and in America was that of a scrivener, and he appears 
to have acquired considerable property in this way and by 
marriage ; after his father's death he came into possession of the 
paternal estate at Justice Town, England, and although it can 



INTRODUCTION. IX 

hardly be said that he made it his home (so much was he absent) 
yet he took much pleasure in tree planting, as an example, as ho 
says, to the neighboring proprietors, having planted out many 
thousand trees collected from different parts of the world, but 
chiefly from America. He died in 1742 of paralysis, aged about 
seventy-five years. 

*' Many witnesses remain,'' says a cotemporary, " even all who 
were acquainted with him, of his high value and merit as a 
glorious instrument in the Divine hand." 

He left in his own handwriting a voluminous account of his 
life and travels. And in his will gave directions for its publica- 
tion, at the expense of the residue of his estate, real and personal, 
to be bestowed upon the public as the author's legacy. 

These munificent intentions were nobly carried out by his 
trustees, who within five years after his decease, " printed a 
certain number of copies of the said journal" in large folio of 
near eight hundred pages. 

The copy from which these extracts have been taken is in 
paper, typography, and binding, a fine specimen of art. The 
number of copies thus issued is nowhere stated, nor is any inti- 
mation given of the amount of the residue of the estate ; both 
matters of some interest to those who read the work. 

In reading the conversations and discussions (some of them 
of great length), it will scarcely be supposed that the author's 
memory could possibly recollect the whole as it is here related, 
yet as he could be at no loss as to the full purport of what had 
passed on these occasions, and had a clear conception in his own 
mind of the arguments involved, there could be no great difficulty 
in his giving a truthful portrait of the discussion. The author 
has himself signified that in writing them out, he has in some 
instances amplified the argument and extended the quotations. 
By such means, however, the value of these productions is en- 
hanced, as being, by so much the more, a complete exposition of 
the several subjects of which they treat. 



X INTRODUCTION. 

As to the temper, object, and manner of the author in con- 
ducting controversy, the reader is particularly referred to the 
following statement taken from his journal : — 

*' Divers disputes I have had with many in other parts of the 
world; but never began any controversy, being always on the 
defensive side, and rarely entered upon any point in question, 
with any sect, till I knew the Divine truth over all in my own 
mind and my will subjected by it. And my next care usually 
was, not to provoke my opponent, for by keeping him calm I had 
his own understanding, and the measure of grace in him, for 
truth and my point, against the error he contended for ; And my 
chief aim generally hath been to gain upon people's understand- 
ing for their own good. But where a man is put in a passion, he 
may be confounded, but not convinced. 

"And this has also taught me to be totally silent, and some- 
times even insulted by ignorants as if I had nothing to say ; till 
the power and virtue of Truth hath arisen in my mind, and then 
it hath never failed, by its own light and evidence, to support its 
own cause, and justify me." 

Nathl. Richardson. 

Byberrt, Philadelphia; 8 mo, 6th; 1860. 



CHAPTER I. 
A DINNER PARTY AT CARLISLE, ENGLAND. 

1688. 

TEAN SUBSTANTIATION. 

A SOLID consideration of the state of affairs, the doubtful- 
ness and hazard of the issue, put me upon a more inward and 
close observation of persons and things than ever. And one 
day at the Assizes of Carlisle, dining at an inn with a mixed 
company, where happened to be two of our ministers of the 
Church of England, a Popish gentleman moved a debate con- 
cerning Transubstantiation, pretending to prove by Scripture, 
that by virtue of certain words which their priests say over a 
piece of bread or wafer, there is a substantial conversion of it 
into the real body of Christ, the very same that was born of 
the Virgin Mary, crucified at Jerusalem, and now glorified in 
Heaven. 

The text of Scripture he advanced to support this petition, 
was, '^ And as they were eating, Jesus took- bread, and blessed 
it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said. Take, 
eat, this is my body." And his argument was only this, that 
Christ, being the word of God, and the truth, whatever he 
said must be positively and literally true ; and therefore there 
is a real change of the bread into the true and real body of 
Christ. And this being an ordinance of God to his ministers, 
the same power is annexed to that ordinance; since, at the 
same time, he commanded them to do the same, saying, " This 
do in remembrance of me." 

(lU 



12 T. story's conversations, etc. 

During this uninterrupted discourse, my zeal was kindled, 
so that I could scarce contain it. But being young, and diffi- 
dent of my own abilities, and paying regard and preference to 
our two ministers present, and expecting their appearance 
against so great an error, and so opposite to the Protestant 
religion, I delayed till it became almost unseasonable to 
engage him. But they minding their plates, and hanging 
down their heads, with their countenances vailed by their 
hats, and I seeing no sign of any answer from them to the 
Papist, I took him up upon the subject thus : 

" Sir, you of the Church of Rome take these words literally, 
but we take the whole form of his speech at that time, on that 
subject, to be figurative; and that these words, 'This is my 
body,' intended no more than, This bread is a symbol, or 
figure, or representation of my body, which shall shortly here- 
after be broken for you. For we ought not to divide the 
sentence or speech of Christ, and take one part literally and 
another figuratively. And you may remember that, at the 
same time, he also took the cup, saying, '-This cup is the New 
Testament, in my blood, which is shed for you,' Do you 
think that that cup, whether of gold, silver, glass, or wood, 
was the New Testament ? Or can't you see that in this latter 
part of his speech there is a double figure ? First, Metonymia, 
subjecti pro adjuncto, the thing containing for the thing con- 
tained; and secondly, the wine in the cup, exhibited, under 
the word cup, as a figure or representation of his blood, which 
was not then actually or literally shed, or his body broken. 
And seeing he said in the present tense, ' This is my body 
which is broken (not to be broken) for you,' ' and this cup is 
the New Testament, in my blood, which is (not which shall 
hereafter be) shed for you,' you must either own that Christ 
advanced a false proposition, which you will not ; or that he 
spake figuratively in both sentences, which you cannot reason- 
ably avoid. Besides, the words uttered by Christ himself did 
not work that effect you imagine ; for no man can call a thing 
by any name, denoting its existence, before it is that thing 
which it is called; (then taking up a plate) no man, for 



TRANSUBSTANTIATION. IS 

instance, can truly and literally say this is a plate if it were 
not a plate before. Then, by a parity of reason and truth, 
Christ could not say, this bread is my body, if it were not his 
body before; therefore these words made nO' alteration, for, if 
it was 50 before, these words were only declarative of what 
was before, and not initiatory or commencive of a new being 
which was not there before. And again, if ever these words 
had effected a transubstantiation, they would when Christ him- 
self uttered them. Consider, then, pray, that as soon as 
Christ began to speak those words, ^ This is my body,^ the 
body of Christ, born of the Virgin Mary, began to cease to be 
his body, and the bread began to convert into it; and that as 
soon as the words were finished, the body born of the Virgin alto- 
gether ceased to be what it was before, and, by a new way of 
corporeal transmigration, insinuated itself into the bread, which, 
by the same degrees that the body of Christ ceased to be his 
body, commenced, proceeded, grew, and became his body; or 
else he had two bodies present with his disciples at the same 
time ; and if they eat his body that evening, what body was 
that which was crucified the next day ? and what blood then 
shed, if, the night before, the disciples had drank the blood 
of Jesus in a proper and literal sense and without a figure ? 
And where now is that same cup ? If you have lost that, 
you have, in your own sense, lost the New Testament and all 
your share therein. 

" Now, sir, if you can persuade me and this company out of 
our senses and understandings, so as that we may be able to 
believe against both, that a piece of bread is the body of 
Christ, and a cup of wine is his blood, then you may bid fair 
for our conversion, or rather perversion, to your religion. But 
till you can do that, you cannot reasonably expect we should 
embrace so great absurdities." 

Upon this several of the company laughed ; and the Papist 
said these were great mysteries, and the subject copious and 
intricate, and could not at that time be fully prosecuted, but 
might be more largely discussed at some other convenient 
opportunity. 



14 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

I replied : ''Then why did you move it? Could you think 
we would all sit silent, to hear you propagate such notions, 
and make no opposition 1" And so the matter dropped ; but 
though I had thus opposed him, he showed more respect to 
me afterwards than to any other of the company. 

Dinner being over, our ministers retired into another room, 
and I went to them, where, with much seeming respect, they 
addressed themselves to me after this manner : — " We are 
very glad you have had so much to say in defence of our 
religion, and that you managed the debate so that he got no 
advantage, nor could maintain his point."^ 

But I, being still under the grief and shame, as well as 
resentment of their temporizing, cowardice, and negligence, 
quickly returned thus : — " And I, gentlemen, am very much 
grieved, and ashamed to find that you had nothing at all to say 
in defence of it, which I very much wondered at, for I so long 
expected one of you would have engaged the gentleman, that 
it was almost unseasonable to make any answer." 



CHAPTER II. 
DR. GILPIN, OF SCALEBY CASTLE, ENGLAND. 

1691. 

THE lord's supper. 

Dr. Gilpin sent his son, a counsellor, under whom I had 
been initiated into the study of the law, and who still retained a 
great affection for me, to invite me to his house at Scaleby 
Castle, and desired to see some of the Quakers' books, sup- 
posing I had been imposed upon by reading them ; and I sent 
him; as I remember, all that I had. 



THE lord's supper. 15 

Soon after I had parted with these books, I observed a cloud 
come over my mind, and an unusual concern ; and therein the 
two Sacraments (commonly so termed) came afresh into my re- 
membrance, and divers Scriptures and arguments, pro and con ; 
and then I was apprehensive the doctor was preparing some- 
thing of that sort to discourse me upon ; and I began to search 
out some Scriptures in defence of my own sentiments on those 
subjects. But as I proceeded a little in that work, I became 
more uneasy and clouded, upon which I laid aside the Scrip- 
tures and sat still, looking toward the Lord for counsel. For 
I considered the doctor as a man of great learning, religious 
in his way, an ancient preacher and writer too, famous in 
Oliver's time, and a throne among his brethren, and that he 
might advance such subtilties as I could not readily confute, 
nor would concede to as knowing them erroneous, though I 
might not suddenly be furnished with arguments to demon- 
strate their fallacy ; and so might receive hurt. 

And then it was clear in my understanding, that, as he was 
in his own will and strength, though with a good intent, in 
his own sense searching the letter, and depending upon that 
and his own wisdom, acquirements, and subtility, leaning to 
bis own spirit and understanding, I must decline that way, 
and trust in the Spirit of Christ, the Divine Author of the 
Holy Scriptures. And as this caution was presented in the 
life and virtue of truth, I rested satisfied therein, and searched 
no further on that occasion. When I went to his house, he 
entered into a discourse on those subjects, and had such 
passages of Scripture folded down as he purposed to use ; and 
when I observed it, I was confirmed that my sight of him, in my 
own chamber at Carlisle, and of his work, some days before, was 
right ; and my mind was strengthened thereby. But before 
he began to move upon the subject, he dismissed every other 
person out of the room, so that himself and I remained alone. 

The first thing he said was, in a calm manner, to admonish 
me to be very cautious how I espoused the errors of the 
Quakers, for he had heard of late, and with concern, that I 
had been among them, or seemed to incline that way. I 



16 T- story's conversations, etc. 

answered that I had not been much among them, nor seen 
any of their books but those I had sent him, and knew not of 
any errors they held. Yes, said he, they deny the ordinances 
of Christ, the two Sacraments, Baptism and the Lord's 
Supper, and then opened his book, at one of his down-folded 
leaves, where he read thus : — '^ Unto the church of God which 
is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, 
called to be saints." 1 Cor. i. 2. 

And at another folded down part he read thus : — " For I 
have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto 
you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was 
betrayed, took bread; and when he had given thanks, he 
brake it, and said. Take, eat, this is my body, which is broken 
for you ; this do in remembrance of me. After the same 
manner, also, he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, 
This cup is the New Testament in my blood; this do ye, as 
oft as you drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as 
ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's 
death till he come." 

Upon these Scriptures he raised this argument. That 
though the Corinthians at that time were sanctified in Christ, 
and called to be saints, yet they still needed this ordinance, 
and were to continue in it, according to the apostle's doctrine, 
till the coming of Christ, at the end of the world. And he 
did not think the Quakers more holy or perfect Christians 
than the Corinthians at that time ; and consequently that no 
state in this life can render that ordinance needless to them, 
or overgrow it. 

To this I replied, that though some of those Corinthians 
had obeyed the call of God, and were at that time sanctified 
by faith in Christ, yet others of them had not obeyed the call, 
but were remaining in gross sins and pollutions. But as they 
had been heathens, and convinced by the ministry of that 
apostle, as appears by the beginning of the second and fifteenth 
chapters of that epistle, he had first of all preached to them 
Christ's coming in the flesh among the Jews, his life, miracles, 
doctrines, death for our sins, and resurrection from the dead, as 



THE lord's supper. 17 

saving truths, but does not so much as mention this supposed 
ordinance among them. But considering their weak and 
carnal state, and incapacity then to reach the knowledge of 
Divine mysteries, the apostle had, in their initiation into the 
Christian religion, related to them the sayings of Christ on 
that subject; and they had been in the practice, or rather 
abuse of it, till the time of the writing of that epistle. Yet 
if the words of that epistle, in that place, be carefully and 
impartially observed, without prepossession or prejudice, and 
compared with other Scriptures, it will appear that there is 
not any positive command for it at all, much less is it made a 
standing ordinance, but left to the option and discretion of his 
disciples, to whom it was first mentioned how often they should 
do it, and, consequently, also how long they should continue 
it, as appears by the same text now adduced ; viz., '^ This do, 
as often as ye do it, in remembrance of me." 

But, to set this matter in a clearer light, it is well known 
that, at the time of the redemption of the Jews from their 
Egyptian slavery, the Passover with the Paschal Lamb was 
instituted as a standing ordinance, in commemoration of it, 
until Christ, the Lamb of God, and antitype of that figure, 
should come. But as Israel, ofi'ending the Lord, was after- 
ward sent into captivity under the Babylonians, they could not, 
in that state and under that government, celebrate it in form ; 
and therefore they invented another way to keep that great 
deliverance in memory, which was this : 

The father, or chief of the family, at the proper time of the 

Paschal Supper, took bread and blessed it, saying: "Blessed 

be thou, Lord our Grod, who gives us the fruit of the 

earth '/' then, dividing it among the company, in like manner 

also he took the *cup, and, blessing it, said : " Blessed be thou, 

O Lord, who gives us the fruit of the vine." This they did in 

a solemn manner, remembering their Egyptian slavery and 

deliverance, lamenting their present state, acknowledging 

their sins, and the justice of God in their punishment, and 

hopes of his mercy from his former kind dealings and gracious 

promises. 
9 * 



18 T. story's conversations, etc. 

The Jews, being then initiated into this practice, upon so 
solemn an occasion, as the Lord's being pleased to remember 
them with redemption a second time, the succeeding genera- 
tions continued it, as incident to the Passover, until the Lord 
Christ, the antitype (as well of the Paschal Lamb as of the 
bread and wine), did come, who, when he appeared, was 
declared by John the Baptist to be " The Lamb of God, which 
taketh away the sin of the world ;" and he declared himself 
to be " the bread of life, the living bread which came down 
from Heaven •/' proclaiming also, and that very emphatically, 
that his flesh is meat indeed, and his blood is drink indeed ; 
that, except they ate his flesh and drank his blood, they had 
no life in them. And all this was meant of the Spirit of 
Christ, and not of his flesh. " It is the Spirit that quickeneth, 
the flesh profiteth nothing.^^ 

The time drawing near when the Lamb of Grod was to be 
slain, and off"ered as a sacrifice, declaring the mercy of God 
the Father, who sent him in love to the whole world, he then 
said to his disciples : '' With desire I have desired to eat this 
Passover with you before I suffer.'^ And at the time of it, as 
father and chief of his flock and family, he celebrated the 
Passover in form, with this difi'erence only, that whereas the 
Jews, until that time, in the celebration of it, had looked back 
to the type and outward deliverance from Egypt, the Lord now 
directs them to himself as the antitype of all figures ; and tells 
them he would not any more eat thereof (the Passover) until 
it should " be fulfilled in the kingdom of God,'' nor drink of 
the fruit of the vine, until that day '^when he should drink it 
new with them in his Father's kingdom." Which eating and 
drinking, in the kingdom of God, cannot relate to material 
bread and wine, which can only be exhibited as symbols of the 
outward body of Christ, and the blood of that holy body, 
which to be eat and drank in a natural sense profiteth nothing, 
but to the all-quickening virtue and power of his holy spirit, 
which is all in all, and true feeding to the commonwealth of 
the whole Israel of God. And therefore this Passover, or any 
part or relative to it, whether bread, wine, or any other matter 



THE lord's supper. 19 

ill it, could be of no further use or obligation to the disciples 
of Christ, than till they should experience in themselves his 
divine and spiritual appearance and coming in them, and to be 
the same to their souls or minds which natural food and drink 
is to the body — its support, strength, nourishment, and means 
of duration. Which divine cominc: of Christ as such, can 
mean no other than his being made manifest in a spiritual 
administration; for, as he is that eternal spirit of essential 
Truth, and Word, Wisdom and Power of God, it is not strictly 
proper to say of him (in that sense) that he shall come or go 
anywhere, but to be made manifest ; for, as such, he ever was, 
is, and will be omnipresent, and never absent from any place 
or time. 

His coming, then, must intend his powerful manifestation 
where he already is, and not a locomotive coming from where 
he is, to any other place where he was not before, '^ for the 
heaven of heavens cannot contain him." 2 Chron. ii. 6. 

Seeing, then, that this was only the Passover, and the terms 
of the application of it to himself, not institutive of any new 
command or ordinance, but a liberty to do or not to do it, at dis- 
cretion, ''This do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of 
me," laid no obligation on them to do it any more at all, it being 
ended by the manifestation of its antitype ; and in the nature 
of things, could be of no farther obligation or reasonable use; 
when Christ himself was witnessed in them to be that eternal, 
everlasting, never-failing divine substance. 

But the Apostle Paul, whose concern for the Jews, and zeal 
for the conversion of the Gentiles, to whom in an especial 
manner he was sent, engaged him to become all things to all 
men, that by all means he might gain some, recommended to 
the Corinthians the practice of the Passover with the new 
application of it to Christ, at the time of their first believing 
in him by that apostle's ministry, that being yet carnally 
minded, they might have an outward communion, till the true 
communion should be made known, which their state, at that 
time, could not bear. As, in point of prudence only, he prac- 



«• 



20 T. story's conversations, etc. 

tised some other legal rites, at some times, wHcli in his 
doctrines, he condemned at other times, where the state of the 
people was able to bear it. 

And it is much more likely, considering the nature and end 
of the Gospel, and its excellency above the Law, and all legal 
and typical rites, as substances excel shadows; that the apostle, 
observing how much some of the Corinthians had abused the 
Passover in practice, and their very carnal state under it, was 
rather by that epistle endeavoring to supersede it, and bring 
them off to the living substance, where he saith to such among 
them as were already sanctified, and to whom he inscribed his 
epistle, ^' I speak as to wise men, judge ye what I say, the cup 
of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood 
of Christ ? The bread which we break, is it not the commu- 
nion of the body of Christ? for we being many, are one bread 
and one body, for we are all partakers of that one bread." 

It is plain, therefore, that the communion of the sanctified 
and wise in Corinth, stood not in the bread which perisheth, 
nor in the wine of the grape, which some of the Corinthians 
were carnally abusing, but in the quickening spirit and power 
of Christ, the true living, life-giving, and life-preserving bread, 
which daily comes from heaven, into all the sanctified and saved 
of the Lord. 

This is that spirit that quickens and preserves to life eter- 
nal, the flesh profiteth nothing, and since it is so, much less 
does any symbol of the flesh profit, but the divine substance 
only. This is that substance of which the apostle draws the 
comparison, " we being many are one bread." For as wheat 
consists of many particular grains, each containing a distinct 
principle of life after its kind, and all of the same nature, 
which being broken, and rightly prepared and ordered by the 
good husbandman, become one bread ; even so is the church 
of Christ, every member in his natural state, being alienated 
from the life of God through the ignorance and darkness that 
was in him, and separated also one from another, as without a 
proper medium and condition of union, but being ordered and 
prepared by the Father of mercies, through Christ his eternal 



THE lord's supper. 21 

Word, they become one body and one spirit, the Church, which 
is his body, the fulness of him who filleth all in all. 

The substance of this was what I observed to the doctor, 
though I have in this place expatiated somewhat further on 
the subject, and generally applied the Scriptures; to which 
he made little other reply than by telling me, in a very calm 
and familiar manner, that as he had always believed it to be 
an ordinance of Christ, he had solemnly used it as such, and 
found comfort in it. 

To which I returned, that I did not doubt but that he might 
have some satisfaction in it, since he believed it a remaining 
ordinance, and did it under that apprehension ; whosoever in 
his heart believes anything to be a standing duty in the Church 
of Christ, which ever had any countenance in it by practice, 
and performs it faithfully, according to his belief and under- 
standing, may find a satisfaction in it. 

But since God in mercy is pleased to afford the living sub- 
stance without the use of those means, which are supposed to 
lead to an end already attained, they can be no more a duty to 
such. And that is the real case among the true Quakers, who 
love and fear the Lord sincerely. 

As to the other point, viz., baptism, he said but little about 
it, for he knew very well that in strictness they were not so 
much as in the form of water baptism. And I only asked 
him this question, Whether he did believe it necessary to sal- 
vation ? He answered, that he did not think it absolutely 
necessary. Then, said I, we shall not need to say any more 
about it, and so the whole matter ended as td these points. 

Then he said something concerning the books I had sent 
him, speaking slightly of them ; but thought that about prayer, 
writ (I think) by George Keith, the best; and said, that see- 
ing the Quakers pretended that they did not know before they 
went to meetings whether they should preach or pray, or what 
way in either, and yet travelled in strange places, how could 
they speak to the states of the people, or be joined with in 
prayer ? 

To this I answered, that such as went to a meeting empty of 



22 T. story's conversations, etc. 

all things, and waited upon Grod, were filled with His holy 
Spirit, who knows all states at all times and places; and if 
the preacher attend to Him, as he ought, and delivers those 
matters opened to him at the time, the Lord both gives the 
word and makes the application to every state, in every par- 
ticular person, which no preacher, or instrument, of himself is 
able to do. 

And as to joining in prayer : all right prayer is by the aid 
of the Spirit of Christ, the Mediator between God and man, 
which, in that respect, is called the spirit of prayer and of sup- 
plication, and as such is promised of the Father to the Church, 
and received by her ; and her unity in prayer stands not so 
much in the form of words, though sound and pertinent, as 
in the nature, virtue, and influence of the Holy Spirit of 
Christ, her holy head, life, lawgiver, and comforter. 

The doctor did not oppose this ; but only said, I had given 
him better satisfaction in that point than he had found in the 
book, and afterward he was much more free and familiar with 
me than before, or than I expected, and so we parted in friend- 
ship, and I returned in peace and gladness. ' 



THE RESURRECTION. 23 



CHAPTER III. 
A PREJUDICED PRIEST. 

1691. 

THE RESURRECTION. 

I HAD no more dislike to priests than to others, as men, yet 
when any of them and I happened to come into the same com- 
pany, or place, they usually fell into some visible disorder and 
uneasiness, though I said nothing to occasion it, -which I took 
therefore to arise from a prepossession, and general prejudice 
and enmity against Friends, supposing them enemies to their 
persons as to their errors. And particularly one of them coming 
occasionally into a place where I was, all of a sudden, and in 
a confused manner, without any occasion given to lead to it, 
cried out, " You deny the Resurrection V I replied, that he 
had not heard me say anything on that subject. " Then," 
said he, '' the people you have joined yourself to deny it." I 
replied, I did not understand they denied the resurrection, and 
that Christ, to prove the resurrection, adduced that scripture 
where it is written, " But as touching the resurrection of the 
dead, have you not read that which was spoken unto you by 
God, saying, I am the Grod of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, 
and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but 
of the living." If, then, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had 
attained the resurrection from the dead, in Christ's sense of 
the resurrection, and yet the bodies of those saints then re- 
mained in the earth, something else must be meant by the 
resurrection of the dead than terrene bodies. 

Then said the priest, " I believe that Abraham, &c., did 
arise, not only to a state of righteousness in this life, but also 



24 T. story's conversations, etc. 

to a state of glory in heaven after his death." Then said T, 
" Since he attained a first and second resurrection, he com- 
pleted that state without the resurrection of this earthly body, 
for of a third resurrection we read not, and of a second by im- 
plication only.'^ And so the matter ended. 



CHAPTER IV. 
DINING ON A TITHE GOOSE. 



1691. 



MAINTENANCE OF MINISTEES. 

My eldest brother, being priest of the parish, and likewise 
Dean of Conner (afterward of Limerick), in Ireland, had one 
of the Scots Episcopal priests for his curate (or journeyman), 
who had been turned out at the establishment of presbytery as 
the national way in Scotland. And this priest being poor, 
my father took him into his house for his better accommoda- 
tion ; which proved some occasional exercise to me, we being 
so very different in our sentiments in some things relating to 
religion. And one day, there being a goose on the table at 
dinner, he intending to disappoint me of a part, whispered to 
me so loud as all about the table heard him, "■ This is a tithe 
goose;" and then fleered. I replied, "Let him look to the evil 
of that to whom it is tithe ; but to me it is no tithe, but a 
goose only ; and, with my father's leave, I will take a share." 
And after this we had much dispute about the maintenance 
of the ministers of Christ. I alleged, that when Christ sent 
out his disciples to preach to the people, he said, " Freely ye 
have received, freely give ;" and did not allow them either 



MAINTENANCE OF MINISTERS. 25 

gold, silver; nor brass ia their purses, nor scrip, nor two coats, 
nor shoes, nor staffs, but to depend on divine Providence only 
for their subsistence; eating such things as should be set 
before them, for the workman is worthy of his meat. 

To this he answered, that Christ and his apostles received 
money for preaching, otherwise where did they get the money 
they had in the bag; for they were poor men, and had nothing 
to give, or any other way to procure money. Upon this I asked 
him, whence that money came that Christ sent Peter to take out 
of the mouth of the fish ? Had he not command over all things 
to have what he pleased ? But you priests, to justify your- 
selves in your anti-Christian practices, dare accuse Christ 
himself and his apostles, of your own crimes. He and they 
preached not for hire, not for filthy lucre and maintenance, but 
for the help and salvation of men ; and as there is nothing 
needful to the laborer in that work but the present subsistence 
of food and raiment, with that they were to be content : and 
as to what money they had, it arose from the superabounding 
love of those who heard him and them, and believed; which 
they did not hoard up and detain to their own use only, but 
also gave to the poor as they had occasion : so far were they 
from sitting down in corners, and forcing maintenance, even 
to luxury, from those who did not receive them, as you priests 
do at this day : by which it appears you are none of his, but 
rather like Judas, the traitor, who carried the bag, loved money 
better than him, and was a thief. At this he became a little 
ashamed, and, in an abject manner said, " What I have for 
my preaching, is but a small matter :'' as if the diminutive 
pay and poverty should excuse the error ; and so it ended. 

At another time, my father had a mind to discourse me on 
that subject; and, after he had moved it, I desired leave to 
ask him a question before I entered the dispute with him : 
he granted it; and then I asked him, ^' if it were not for his 
reputation among men, and the law of the land, would he 
himself pay any tithe ?" Upon this he was silent a little, and 
then replied, with an oath, that if it were not for the laws he 
3 



26 T. story's conversations, etc. 

would pay no more tithe than myself: then, said I, there is 
no need of any further dispute— and it ended thus, for he 
never offered any argument about it. 



CHAPTER V. 
JOHN KERR. 

1692. 

FREEDOM FROM SIIST. 



A DISCOURSE happened between John Kerr, and a friend, 
who was a citizen, concerning freedom from sin in this life ; 
which John Kerr asserted could not be; and brought this 
passage out of the Epistle to the Romans, which he thought 
proved it, viz., '^ For the good that I would, I do not; but the 
evil which I would not, that I do," and divers parts of the same 
chapter throughout. I, being at the other end of the table, and 
hearing them, and observing where the priest erred, a concern 
came upon me to take up the argument, and to endeavor to in- 
form him better; and I said that the apostle in that Epistle in 
the first place proved, that both Jew^ and Gentiles were under 
sin, the former as well as the latter, notwithstanding the law 
and ordinances of God delivered to them, which they had not 
kept : and that both had redemption through faith in the Lord 
Christ ; by whom they were made free from sin even in this 
life (which the law could not effect), as appears by these words : 
" Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead, dieth no 
more. Death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he 
died, he died unto sin once ; but in that he liveth, he liveth 
unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead 
indeed unto sin ; but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our 



FREEDOM FROM SIN. 27 

Lord," &c. The apostle here, taking the comparison from the 
certainty of the death and resurrection of Christ, infers like- 
wise as great certainty of their being, in this life, through him, 
raised unto newness of life; which he corroborates in the 18th 
verse of the same chapter, saying, " Being then made free 
from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness :" and in 
the 22d verse confirms it further, ''But now, being made free 
from sin, and become servants to Grod, ye have your fruits unto 
holiness, and the end everlasting life." Where it is apparent 
that the apostle makes the service of God and sin inconsistent, 
and altogether incompatible ; but, resuming the same doc- 
trine, under another similitude, in the 7th chapter, he there 
personates the state of the Jews, and of himself, whilst only 
under the law, and without the knowledge of Christ, and not 
that state that he (or the adult in the Church) was in, as an 
apostle and Christian, at the time of writing that epistle; 
which states are so diflferent that it is impossible the apostle 
could be in both in so short a time, as between writing part 
of the 7th chapter, and the beginning of the 8th, which, 
might be less than half an hour ; for in the 24th verse of the 
7th chapter, summing up all the weaknesses under the law in 
a few words, he cries out, '^ wretched man that I am, who 
shall deliver me from the body of this death I" and imme- 
diately answers his own question, I thank God, through Jesus 
Christ our Lord ; and then continues to assert the Christian 
freedom, and saith, ''There is, therefore, now no condemna- 
tion to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the 
flesh, but after the Spirit : for the law of the spirit of life, in 
Christ Jesus, hath made me free from the law of sin and 
death,^* &c. 

Thus it appears that the Apostle Paul was not under the 
body of sin and death, at the time when he wrote that epistle ; 
but was only recounting the various states, both of himself 
and others, under the law of Moses, and after the law of life 
and liberty from sin was come by the Son of God, and fulfilled 
by him in this apostle, as also in the adult in the congregation 
of Christ. 



28 T. story's conversations., etc. 

Upon this the said John Kerr freely acknowledged, before 
the company, that he had all along mistaken that Scripture, 
and that we understood it right. 



CHAPTER VI. 
■WILLIAM FALCONER'S. 



1692. 

DIVISIONS AMONG THE (SO CALLED) 
CHRISTIANS. 

Robert Gerard and I went to Forress, and finding a 
concern come upon me, I went to the house of William Fal- 
coner (the priest), and Robert Gerard with me ; and there 
was one that was steward to a nobleman with him, and some 
others beside his own family. He seemed to receive us with 
respect ; nevertheless, in a short time, there appeared a cloud 
of darkness. But I sat quiet and inward a little, and the 
truth arose as a standard against it, and the opposing dark- 
ness vanished, and truth reigned in me alone, and then I 
began to speak concerning the many divisions in the pretended 
Christian world, happening upon the pouring forth of the 
seventh phial by the Angel of God, mentioned in the book of 
the Revelation of John. That the pretended Christian Church, 
with all her various false notions, opinions, and doctrines, is 
that Babylon. That her three great divisions are the Papacy, 
the Prelacy, and the Presbytery, with their several subdivi- 
sions and confusions ; who, being departed from the Spirit of 
Christ, the Prince of Peace, into the spirit of envy and per- 
secution ; were now, and from the time of that phial, warring 
and destroying each other, contrary both to the nature and 



DIVISIONS AMONG THE (SO CALLED) CHRISTIANS. 29 

end of that religion they profess — which is Love. I was an- 
swered, ^' That the Bishop of Rome, under pretence of being 
the successor of Peter, and as such, infallible, hath usurped a 
dictatorship over the Christian world, in matters of religion ; 
and imposed a multitude of anti-Christian errors, by unreason- 
able force, upon mankind : but God having committed his 
whole will unto writing in the Holy Scriptures, and in the 
course of his Providence, preserved them unto us, we have 
our whole duty declared therein, as our rule and guide in 
matters of religion ; so that we are not to expect the mani- 
festations of the Spirit, as in times past, that dispensation 
being now ceased.'' 

I replied, " That what he said of the Bishop of Rome was 
true; and that the Scriptures are the most excellent books 
extant; which were given from time to time, by the word of 
the Lord, which is the Spirit of Christ : but men may read 
and speak the truths contained in the Scriptures one to another, 
and the readers and speakers remain still ignorant of the word 
of the Lord, and of the things themselves intended to be signi- 
fied by the words ; and not being sent of God (as the Scrip- 
tures send no man) cannot profit the hearers, but are them- 
selves transgressors in so doing, unless they were sent by the 
influence, power, and virtue of the same word that did dictate 
the matters of the Scriptures unto the holy penmen thereof; 
as appears by the 23d chapter of the prophecy of Jeremiah ;" 
and then I called for a Bible, and read : " The prophet that 
hath a dream, let him tell a dream ; and he that hath my 
word, let hira speak my word faithfully : What is the chaff to 
the wheat, saith the Lord ? Is not my word like a fire, saith 
the Lord ; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in 
^pieces ? Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith 
the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbor. 
Behold I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use 
their tongues and say. He saith : yet I sent them not, nor 
commanded them ; therefore they shall not profit this people 
at all, saith the Lord." So that it is contrary to the declared 
mind of God, that any should use his words to others, as his 
3^ 



30 T. story's conversations, etc. 

ministers, wlio are not sent by himself so to do; for though 
they have been his words unto others, those who use them 
without his command, are charged by him as thieves ; espe- 
cially such as make merchandise of them to the people. 

As to the dispensation of the Spirit being now ceased, I am 
sorry to hear it is so ; for I can show thee to whom it is so 
ceased, but not to the Church of Christ. Then I turned to 
the 3d chapter of the prophecy of Micah, and read : ^' Hear, 
I pray you, O heads of Jacob, and ye princes of the house of 
Israel, is it not for you to know judgment ? Who hate the 
good, and love the evil; who pluck off their skin from off 
them, and their flesh from off their bones ; who also eat the 
flesh of my people, and flea their skin from off them: and 
they break their bones, and chop them in pieces as for the 
pot, and as flesh within the cauldron. Then shall they cry 
unto the Lord, but he will not hear them; he will even hide 
his face from them at that time, as they have behaved them- 
selves ill in their doings." 

Here it appears, that for the ignorance, cruelty, and injus- 
tice of the princes, or heads of the people, the Lord would 
not hear or regard them. As again, in the 9th verse, the 
Lord resumes his charge against the great men in that day : 
^' They abhorred judgment, and perverted all equity : They 
built up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity : The 
heads of that people judged for reward, their priests taught 
for hire, and their prophets divined for money ; yet they pre- 
tended to lean upon the Lord, aod say. Is not the Lord among 
us ? No evil can come upon us." But the Lord was not to 
be mocked by such ; his just judgments were denounced 
against them. " Therefore shall Zion, for your sakes, be 
plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and 
the mountain of the house, as the high places of the forest." 
This was fulfilled upon them, and remains over them, as a 
monument of the justice of God, unto this day. The charge 
of the Lord, and his judgments against the prophets, I left to 
the last, viz.: "They made the people err; they bit with 
their teeth, and (yet) cried peace; and he that put not into 



DIVISIONS AMONG THE (sO CALLED) CHRISTIANS. 31 

their mouths, they even prepared war against him : There- 
fore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision ; 
and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine ; and 
the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be 
dark over them. Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the 
diviners confounded; yea, they shall cover their lips, for 
there is no answer of Grod." 

Now as to these Scriptures, said I, like sin, like judgment. 
All these three divisions of the pretended Christian Church, 
falling into the sins of the old heathens, are become hateful, 
and hating one another; and, through that hatred, have per- 
secuted and destroyed each other, when and wherever they 
have had power. And all these, in their turns (having 
deceived and subjected the temporal powers), have persecuted 
and destroyed the Church of Christ among them. They have 
hated the good, and loved the evil : They have exercised such 
cruelties upon the innocent and just, as are here figuratively 
termed plucking off their skin and their flesh, and the break- 
ing of their bones, and the like. 

The priests of every form have fleeced the people and the 
Church of Christ, which they have not fed; they have made 
laws, by their own power, against them, and thereby made 
war against such as would not gratify their covetousness ; 
they have worried them, as with their teeth, and yet cried up 
the peace of the Grospel in words ; they have built and propa- 
gated their several sects and parties with the blood of others, 
and of the saints of Grod; and have filled their sanctuaries 
with evil doing and fraud. Their heads, who lord over them, 
have exercised their offices for gain and pay; their priests 
teach for hire, their prophets divine for money; yet they pre- 
tend the Lord is with them in their various and opposite ways, 
and that no evil can come upon them. And yet, though the 
day of the Gospel of Christ be dawned upon his Church, and 
the Sun of righteousness be arisen and shining in her ; yet the 
night of apostacy and mist of thick darkness and ignorance is 
over these : They have no vision of God; they cannot divine; 
the sun is set unto them, and the day is dark over them : for 



32 T. story's conversations, etc. 

the light thereof they despise and hate, because they are evil- 
doers, and to them there is no answer of Grod, who is that 
Spirit, and speaks no more unto them^ but by the letter which 
killeth, and of which they make a trade and gain. 

But the Church of Christ here speaketh another language ; 
she bears another, a true testimony to the true God. But 
truly I am full of power, by the spirit of the Lord, and of 
judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgres- 
sions, and unto Israel his sin. 

Here it is apparent from whom the Spirit of the Lord is 
departed, and to whom he is not now revealed, and in whom 
he does not reside; that is Mystery Babylon, with all her 
divisions, subdivisions, and members, everywhere, and under 
whatsoever name. But Grod is with his people still, as in 
former times, according to the promise of the Son : '^If a man 
love me, he will keep my words ; and my Father will love him, 
and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.'' 

The auditory heard what was said with patience, and none 
made any answer but the priest; and all that he said was (and 
that a little pleasantly), " Such as you going about with such 
chapters, may do much mischief." To whom I replied, that 
inasmuch as he was then silenced by the temporal powers that 
then were, he would do well never to look after that employment 
any more, or think to enrich himself thereby; and the rather, 
since he had a competent estate independent of it ; which the 
Lord would bless to him and his family, if he disclaimed that 
ungodly practice of preaching for hire, and was silent in the 
things of Grod till the Lord should send him, if it might please 
him so to do. 

The priest's wife seemed well pleased with what I said to 
him, and he made no reply : and so, a little after, we departed 
in peace, and in friendship with them, and went to our inn. 



THE ASCENSION, 38 



CHAPTER YII. 
GEORGE KEITH. 

1695. 

THE ASCENSION. 

As I was going one day to attend the Lord Chief Justice, 
in order to have a fine passed upon an estate offered in mort- 
gage for security of a sum of money, there came to me, upon 
the pavement near the of&ce, a man well dressed, and of grave 
behavior, desiring to have some conversation with me; in 
which I could not gratify him then, being instantly engaged 
in the business I went about; but when I had finished it, and 
was come out from the ofl&ce, I found him waiting; and, 
advancing toward me, he began to discourse about George 
Keith, saying, " That we (meaning the body of Friends) had 
missed our way in contending with him as we did ; for he, 
being a man of learning and knowledge, might have been very 
serviceable to our Society, in helping us over some mistakes 
we labored under/' 

I replied, that we were not under any mistake about the 
Christian faith or religion, or any part of it ; and did not want 
instructions from George Keith, or any other like unto him, 
we being taught of the Lord, • and by such as he raises, 
qualifies, and sends in his own name and power; and these 
we know, own, and receive, in the same love in which they 
are sent. 

Then he moved one of George Keith's notions and subjects 
of debate, by way of question : '' Whether we believe that 
Jesus Christ is now in Heaven in the same body in which he 
suffered on the cross on earth ?" I replied, that we believe 



34 T. stouy's conversations^ etc. 

all that the Holy Scriptures relate concerning the Lord and 
his body; that he ascended, until a cloud received him out of 
the sight of the witnesses who saw him ascend ; but as to the 
identity, or sameness of his body, or the mode of its existence 
now in Heaven, as I do not remember that to be revealed in 
the Holy Scriptures, 'tis a little too presumptuous, I think, in 
George Keith, or any other, to take upon him to define or 
meddle with it j being a mystery of which he hath no know- 
ledge or idea, nor could he transfer the true notion of it to the 
understanding or apprehension of any other person, if he had 
any such thing himself : therefore all he pretends to on that 
subject can be no other than an unprofitable dream of his own 
head, on a subject undeterminable by any mortal, tending only 
to strife and envy, as fully appears by his exercise therein, and 
its evil fruits of division and separation ; and, if persisted in, 
would remain so to the end of the world ; and is to be declined 
as a snare and temptation of the adversary, for mischief and 
destruction. 

Then he urged, " That the body of Christ in Heaven must 
be a real body ; and, if so, then material and circumscribed as 
all such bodies are, yet wonderfully glorified." I replied, this 
is like Satan disputing about the body of Moses. These 
words, " wonderfully glorified," exhibit nothing to the under- 
standing ; though I do not intend to enter into a disquisition 
concerning bodies material or immaterial; glorified or not 
glorified ; circumscriptive or not so : but I remember what the 
Apostle Paul hath writ concerning the Lord Jesus in this 
point; viz., '' In that he ascended, what is that but that he also 
first descended into the lower parts of the earth? he that 
descended is the same also that ascended up far above all 
heavens, that he might fill all things : If then he filleth all 
things, how and by what is he circumscribed ?" 

To this he answered, " That his filling all things was spoken 
of him as he is God omnipresent, and not as man ; who is, as 
such, not omnipresent, that being an attribute of the divine 
nature only." 

I returned to this, that it could not be spoken of Christ as 



THE SACRAMENTS, WOMEN's PREACHING, ETC. 35 

he is God, because lie who is omnipresent is so from all 
eternity, and at all times, and cannot properly be said to ascend 
or descend into any place ; for that would imply his absence 
from those places to which he was said to ascend or descend; 
which, in the notion of it, would oppose the essential and 
necessary attribute of his divinity, and confound the rational 
consideration of it ; so that the apostle's assertion here, I think, 
must refer to Christ in some other way than as he is the word 
of God. 

Then said he, " These are secret and intricate things hard 
to be understood or defined; so that it may be proper to 
decline any farther procedure thereon at this time.'' 

That I grant, said I ; and it was not of my moving ; nor 
did I engage in this discourse with any other view, but to 
demonstrate to thee how little good can be reaped, or expected, 
by contests on the subject, or by any of George Keith's 
notions, or of any others, about it. And so we parted in a 
friendly manner, after he had made himself known to me 
under the character of Doctor English, a Scotsman by nation, 
and a physician by profession. 



CHAPTER VIII. 
THE COUNTESS OF CARLISLE. 



1696. 



THE SACRAMENTS, WOMEN'S PREACHING, ETC. 

I MADE a visit to the Countess of Carlisle, at "Watford 
(intending to have seen the earl, but he was gone to London), 
and she received me in her closet with respect, none being 
present but Helen Fairley, who had been her gentlewoman ; 
but having been lately convinced, another was then in her 



36 T. story's conversations, etc. 

place. The countess asked me divers questions concerning 
the way of truth, as professed by us j of the sacraments, com- 
monly so called; of women's preaching; of our marriages, 
and of the grace of God, &c., to all which I answered in much 
plainness, and, I believe, to her satisfaction, viz : 

As to the two sacraments ; the National Church owns that 
a sacrament is an outward and visible sign of an inward and 
spiritual grace ; and if it is a sign, it cannot be the thing sig- 
nified. That grace, of which those symbols are called signs, 
hath appeared, and doth appear unto all men, as well where 
those signs are used as where they are not used or heard of; 
so that there can be no advantage in the use of such signs, but 
in that grace which, through Christ, is given of the Father 
unto all men, being a divine active principle and power, illu- 
minating, instructing, and guiding the minds of all that be- 
lieve therein into all truth necessary for the salvation of the 
soul. And the great God, Creator of heaven and earth. King 
of kings and Lord of lords, is no respecter of persons in his 
dispensations of grace to the children of men ; but gives more 
or less, as it pleaseth him, but to ev^ry one that which is suffi- 
cient; and hath no regard or disregard therein to those dis- 
tinctions, formed and imposed by mortals, one upon another, 
in this world ; so that high and low, rich and poor, noble and 
ignoble, have all grace sufficient for their salvation, if they 
believe therein and obey ; as it is written, " by grace are ye 
saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift 
of God." Yet you who are great in this world are in most 
danger, because of the cares, riches, pleasures, honors, and 
glory of it ; for as the Most High regardeth none of these 
things, but considers you only as others of mankind, these 
high stations and circumstances delude your hearts by their 
glittering delights, and betray you into a forgetfulness of God 
your Creator, and a neglect of the gift of his grace which is 
in you, though the Lord is not a-wanting to you in his kind 
and merciful admonitions and reproofs in your own minds. 

And though you are sometimes brought thereby into inward 
and deep considerations of your ways, your latter end, and a 



THE SACRAMENTS, WOMEN'S PREACHING, ETC. 37 

future state, as others are ; yet you are under the greater dis- 
advantages through the eminence of your stations and circum- 
stances in the world, being thereby placed out of the reach of 
the conversation and information of the true and sincere min- 
isters of the Lord Jesus ; who as they love you truly, through 
his grace, would deal plainly, yet discreetly and respectfully 
with you, for the sake and redemption of your precious souls, 
without any flattery, or mean, mercenary end, or other terrene 
view. 

But it is lamentable to see and consider that when the grace 
of God, as it is the divine light of his presence, through the 
Lord Jesus Christ, letteth you see yourselves, and the errors 
of your ways; and brings remorse over you, and a secret 
humiliation and sadness into your minds, appearing sometimes 
in your aspects and behavior, when none of your pastimes, 
enjoyments, or diversions have any relish, or afford any satis- 
faction at all. Then (instead of the counsel and help of such 
as have known this word of reproof, and walked in the path 
of life eternal, to direct you in the way which leads to the 
kingdom of God, and to that eternal and unspeakable glory, 
the beatific vision of his countenance, which never ends, as 
all this world, and the glory and pleasures of it do, even in a 
moment, and are known no more), you have two sorts of men 
in particular near you, by whose ignorance, self-views, and 
flattery you are in more danger of everlasting ruin than those 
in lower stations : for, in the times of humiliation, when you 
are fittest for the teachings of God (as it is written, '^ the 
humble he will teach, and the meek he will guide in judg- 
ment'^), then your priests say you are melancholy; a ball, or 
other unchristian-like diversion must be promoted, and your 
physicians must give physic to your bodies ; when, alas ! the 
sickness is in the soul, and they know it not, and can never be 
cured but by the physician of value, the High Priest of God 
and Saviour of the soul; who first slays in it the vain and 
sinful life of the world, in which all the evils thereof do dwell, 
and then breathes into it life eternal, the life of Jesus, the 
Son of God, who never fell. 
4 



88 T. story's conversations, etc. 

As to women^s preaching, it ought to be impartially observed 
that the difference of sex.es consists altogether in various modi- 
fications- of body and organical distinctions, and not in any 
diversity of faculties in the human soul ; the intellectual pow- 
ers being alike common to male and female, and the nature of 
the mind the same in both, and consequently susceptible of 
the like and same impressions and impulses. And accord- 
ingly the Almighty, pointing at the dispensation of the Gospel 
by Joel the prophet, saith, " I will pour out my Spirit upon all 
flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy." 
Again : *' Upon the servants and upon the handmaids, in those 
days, will I pour out my Spirit.'* And by the word prophecy 
is understood, by all interpreters, preaching the Gospel. And 
this prophecy took place in the Church of Christ at the coming 
of the Holy Ghost (or Christ in spirit), at Jerusalem, at the 
time of Pentecost; where, if no woman spake (though we 
have no express account that any did), the Apostle Peter did 
not apply that text properly and without exception, which we 
are not to suppose. And though the Apostle Paul takes some 
exceptions, and that with sharpness, against some women as 
to that exercise in the Church, yet not against all ; for him- 
self declares how women, using that exercise, ought to be 
circumstanced ; and recommends Phebe as a minister of the 
Church which was at Cenchrea ; and Philip had four daugh- 
ters, all preachers ; and Priscilla, as well as Aquila her hus- 
band, was a preacher in the days of the apostles ; and she, as 
well as he, instructed Apollos further in the way of Christ, 
though he had been a preacher before. I conclude, therefore, 
with truth, that women both may and ought to preach, under 
the Gospel dispensation, when the Spirit of the Lord is upon 
them, and thereunto called, and qualified thereby ; and many 
such we have now among us, very acceptable in their ministry; 
so that we know by experience that they are sent of God, 
according to the various degrees of their gifts, as well as the 
men, and receive them accordingly in the Lord. She heard 
what I said with candor and patience, and I took leave of her 
with great satisfaction in my mind. 



CERISTIAN MANNERS; ETC. 39 



CHAPTER IX. 
A FERRY-BOAT. 

1696. 

CHEISTIAN MANNERS; ETC. 

On the 1st day of the seventh month we went to Kinghorn, 
in order to pass over to Leith ; where we found a ferry-boat 
ready to put off from the shore, in which were several passen- 
gers, and among the rest an Episcopal priest. And, as soon 
as he perceived what we were, he fell into a rage, and endea- 
vored to keep us out of the vessel, and disappoint us of our 
passage; which he seemed more bold in, under the counte- 
nance of a young gentleman in the boat ; who, by his appear- 
ance, seemed to be the priest's patron or benefactor. But I 
soon gave him to understand we were not to be imposed upon 
in that point ; and insisting on our passage, required the boat- 
man to take in our horses, and we stepped in after them ; and 
then his spirit fell, when he saw our resolution and manage- 
ment, and that the gentleman did not oppose us : and the 
priest becoming more calm, so did the wind, which had re- 
tarded our passage : and, after awhile, perceiving the spirit 
of the man to be overcome and quieted, I spake to him con- 
cerning his passions, and enmity against us without any cause; 
putting him in mind how inconsistent such a behavior is with 
Christianity, of which I supposed him to be a professor, if not 
a professed teacher; and that religion requires all the pro- 
fessors of it to be kind to strangers ; and that though he was 
equally a stranger to us, as we to him, yet since we were 
strangers in his native country, that character belonged more 
properly to us. 



40 T. story's conversationSj etc. 

This calm reasoning with him, in the grace of God, had so 
good an effect, that he confessed his fault, and desired it might 
be passed by, which was freely granted; and then, as we 
stood together by the side of the vessel, he became very kind 
and familiar, and told me he was, by profession, an Episcopal 
minister, but displaced, and deprived of his living by the 
Presbyterians at the revolution. Then I informed him, that I 
had been of the same profession of religion; that my nearest 
relations were so still, and my elder brother a dean of the 
Episcopal Church ; the manner of my own education, my 
leaving the profession of the law, as not consisting with the 
calling of God in the concern I was then about; and yet, 
casting myself on His providence, I wanted nothing. 

After which I advised him that, since in the course of 
Providence, he was divested of his bread, in the way he had 
chosen for himself, he had best now to lean upon the arm of 
the Lord for his subsistence, in a way which might be shown 
him, in some honest employment, in case he should look no 
more back to his former course or dependence ; and all I said 
he heard with temper, and said, he believed I wished him well 
therein. Then the young gentleman said, a little pleasantly, 
he himself had a mind to dispute with me on the subject of 
baptism. Then I said, before we begin the dispute, answer me 
one question : how many baptisms are there in use in the 
Christian religion? He answered, there are three. Then 
I told him he would make but a poor hand in the dispute, 
that had missed it so far in the entrance ; for, whereas the 
Apostle Paul saith, ^' There is one Lord, one faith, and one 
baptism,'' thou sayest there are three baptisms; and since 
thou opposest the apostle, thou art not fit to be disputed with 
about religion. And not being in earnest in what he had 
proposed, he only smiled, and dropped his pretension. 

Then he addressed himself to the passengers, and said, con- 
cerning Friends, "they are a people who give no honor to 
any, nor seek any, and yet are honored of all ; being admitted 
into the company and friendship of men of all stations and 
degrees without offence, because they make their plain be- 



PROFESSION. 41 

havior an incident of their religion, and badge of their profes- 
sion; and their principles leading them to peace with all sorts, 
and against wars and fighting, whilst other professors destroy 
one another, and thereby lessen their numbers, this people 
are still increasing, by propagating their kind and their prin- 
ciples," This he spake pleasantly; and, not seeing need to 
reply, or make any observation upon it, I let it pass ; and so 
all that looked like contest ceased, and they continued very 
sociable till we went on shore ; and, when we were landed, they 
invited us to drink a glass of wine with them, but that we 
excused, and, parting with them in friendship, went forward 
to Edinburgh. 



CHAPTER X. 
SIR THOMAS LIDDEL, RAVENSWORTH CASTLE. 

1696. 

PROFESSION. 

On the 12th, we went to Newcastle-upon-Tyne, and being 
the seventh day of the week, we were at the meeting there the 
next day, and the Lord was with us ; and also on the second 
day, at their monthly meeting : and Sir Thomas Liddel of 
Ravensworth Castle, Baronet, having taken notice of me on 
some account, at his house, before I frequented the meetings 
of Friends, and hearing of my present profession, and being 
a person of great civility and candor, he had desired John 
Fayrer, a Friend of Newcastle, to invite me to Ravensworth 
to dine with him, when at any time I might happen to come 
that way ; which the Friend informing me of, I went accord- 
ingly, accompanied by him and another ; and we were kindly 
4* 



42 T. story's conversations, etc. 

and respectfully received and entertained by Sir Thomas and 
his son, with whom we had much conversation, in a very 
friendly manner, till near night : and, among other things, he 
told us, " he had a great respect for us as a people, and liked 
our way, being sensible of that principle of divine light and 
truth we professed; but he commonly went to the Presby- 
terian meeting : and then he asked me, '^ whether a man 
might not serve and worship God in his mind, among any 
sort of people, though he might differ from them in his senti- 
ments in some points, and in his secret judgment, like the 
way of some other people better." 

Thus, perceiving he was convinced of the way of truth in 
his understanding, and that he stumbled at the cross, and the 
meanness of the appearance of Friends, I answered, that the 
Lord Jesus Christ said, " Whosoever shall deny me before 
men, him also will I deny before my Father and the holy 
angels;" and the apostle also saith, "With the heart man 
believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession 
is made unto salvation ;" and again, time was when the people 
and elect of God were intermixed, in outward situation, 
with the inhabitants of mystery Babylon, the anti-Christian 
Church, throughout the world, professing the name of the 
true God, and Jesus Christ, the son of God and Saviour of 
the world : but at length the voice of the angel of God was 
heard, saying, '' Come out of her, my people, that ye be not 
partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues ;" 
and, upon the pouring out of the phial by the seventh angel, 
'* the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of 
the nations fell," &c., to which the beginning of the Reforma- 
tion (commonly so called) by Martin Luther, John Calvin, 
and others, their contemporaries, may be reasonably compared; 
since the supposed Christian world was thereupon, and soon 
after, divided into three general parts or heads, viz., Popery, 
Prelacy, and Presbytery; differing in their several notions and 
communions, each from the other, but all of one persecuting 
spirit; not only hating and destroying one another, being out 
of the peaceable Spirit of Christ, but also persecuting and de- 



PROFESSION. 43 

stroying all besides who dissent severally from them, wherever 
they have had power : and their respective successors, in the 
same spirit and notions, continue to do the same things, con- 
trary both to the nature and end of the Christian faith and 
religion, which proclaims peace on earth and good-will towards 
all men. 

But now, in these latter days, the voice of the angel of the 
right hand of the Majesty on high is uttered, and going over 
the nation and nations louder and louder ; and the elect of God 
have heard, and do hear it; and many are gathered, and more 
are gathering into one body and one spirit : and it is not lawful 
for them to stay any longer where they have been, but to 
desert Babylon, the false church thus divided in itself, and 
which cannot stand, but must shortly fall, through the mighty 
word of God; and Antichrist, who ruleth therein, shall be 
destroyed by the brightness of the coming and glory of the 
Son of God. 

And as for us, who are at this day scornfully nicknamed 
Quakers by the children of Babel, it is remarkable that we 
became a people by the gathering arm of the Lord, by the 
convictions of his Holy Spirit, and the assent of the under- 
standing to the testimony and baptism of one spirit, the spirit 
of Truth, and of Christ, which leadeth into all Truth ; and not 
by any notions, or faiths, or creeds, or articles contrived by 
the art and will of man; or by any subscriptions, oaths, or 
agreements thereunto, and yet settled, as it were, at once in 
one uniformity of doctrine, principle, practice, and discipline; 
which no other people ever did, so fully, since the days of the 
apostles of Christ. 

They heard me with patience ; but what I said gave no 
countenance to the way in which this great and rich man had 
chosen to conceal himself, and his real sentiments, from the 
world : but I found it to be my place and duty to be plain with 
him, according to all that was presented in my mind on that 
occasion, that I might keep my own peace, which remained in 
me. He told me he had read some of William Penn's works, 
and would willingly ride a hundred miles to see him : and had 



44 T. story's conversations, etc. 

likewise read some of George KeitVs books ; and said, the 
former wrote in a free, open, natural, and flowing style, and 
gave him great satisfaction ; but the books of the latter were 
more labored and artificial, and never afforded him any relish 
of sweetness, though the matter was, in itself true, and his 
reasoning often strong : but as he was fallen away from his 
principles, he was not to be regarded; though the truths he 
had writ, would remain in their own weight, whatever became 
of the author. And in the evening, when we inclined to 
return to Newcastle, he took his horse and accompanied us 
till we came near the town, and we parted in free and open 
friendship. 



A STRANGER PRIEST. 45 



CHAPTER XI. 
A STRANGER PRIEST. 

1697. 



BAPTISM. 

Continuing 'in London, my elder brother, who was Dean 
of Limerick, in Ireland, desired my company in a visit to 
Robert Constable, a justice of the peace in Groodman's-Fields, 
and our near relation 3 and, when we came to his house, we met 
with his brother George, who was likewise a priest; and with 
hira, another priest (a stranger to me), and some other company. 
This strange priest not knowing the relation among us, and 
looking upon me as a bird of a different feather, began to peck 
at me by several sour hints, which showed his dislike of my 
company ; which, for conversation's sake, I passed by : but, 
my forbearance and silence encouraging him to be a little 
bolder, at length he moved a plain accusation, and said, "You 
deny the ordinances of Christ, water baptism and the Lord's 
supper." 

I replied. Thou hast not heard me say anything on these 
subjects ; how dost thou therefore know what I deny or affirm ? 
Then said he, " I perceive you are one of that sect that does 
deny them.'' What authority hast thou, said I, for water bap- 
tism ? He was ready with that much-mistaken text. Go ye, 
therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing, &c. This, said I, 
was a commandment given by Christ to his apostles; but dost 
thou think this is a command to thee (for thou seemest to be a 
teacher of the people) ; hast thou any authority by this text ? 
Upon this he hesitated a little, and the justice began to smile: 
the pause being over, the priest answered, Yes. Then said I, 



46 T. story's conversations, etc. 

How many nations hast thou travelled through in this work? 
how many taught and baptized ? His countenance began a 
little to alter, and then he replied, " I have never been out of 
England." My next question was, How many counties of 
England hast thou travelled in this service ? He answered, 
he had not travelled in any on that account. Then, said I, 
thou wicked and unfaithful servant, out of thy own mouth 
shalt thou be judged. Thou hast here af&rmed, before these 
witnesses, that the Lord Jesus Christ hath commanded and 
sent thee to teach and baptize all nations, and thou art set 
down in a corner, and hast not baptized any one : for thou 
must understand. Friend, that sprinkling an infant is no bap- 
tism, either in mode or subject. Upon this the counsellor 
laughed outright (for so he was as well as a justice), and the 
other priests smiled. Then said the justice, '' Sir, this gen- 
tleman is my near relation, a cousin-german, you will get 
nothing by meddling with him on these subjects;'^ and so the 
matter dropped, and we entered on such matters as occurred, 
and more natural for conversation among relations and 
acquaintance. 



CHAPTER XII. 

CZAR OF MUSCOVY AND PRINCE MENZI- 
KOFF, ETC. 

1697. 



FLATTEEINa TITLES AND TRIBUTE, ETC. 

At this time Peter the Great, Czar of Muscovy, being in 
London incog., and Gilbert Mollyson (Robert Barclay's wife's 
brother) having heard that a kinsman of his was in the czar's 
Bervice, and, being desirous to increase the knowledge of the 



FLATTERING TITLES AND TRIBUTE, ETC. 47 

Truth, requested me to go with him, in quest of his kinsman, 
to the czar's residence, a large house at the bottom of York- 
Buildings, in order to present him with some of Robert Bar- 
clay's Apologies, in Latin ; hoping that, by that means, they 
might fall under the czar's notice, and be subservient to the 
end proposed. And accordingly, we went one morning ; and 
when we came to the place, Gilbert inquired of the porter after 
his cousin ] but could not hear anything of him in the lower 
apartments, but was desired to stay till further inquiry was . 
made in the house; and a servant went up-stairs to that end, 
and, when returned, invited us up. 

The head of the staircase, on the first floor, brought us to 
the entrance of a long passage, which went through the middle 
of the house, and there stood a single man at a large window, 
at the further end next the river Thames, to whom we were 
directed for intelligence : and, as we passed along, we observed 
two tall men walking in a large room on the right hand ; but 
we did not stop to look at them, only transiently as we moved; 
for supposing one of them to be the czar, of whom I had heard 
that he was not willing to be looked upon, and careful not to 
offend him, we behaved with caution, and went directly to the 
person standing at the window, of whom Gilbert Mollyson 
inquired after his kinsman ; and he told us, that such a person 
had been in the czar's service, but was dead. 

In the mean time, came the czar and the other to us ; the 
other, I suppose, was Prince Menzikoff, his general. Our 
backs were toward them, and our hats on; and when they 
approached, the person with whom we had conversed, looked 
down upon the floor with profound respect and silence ; but 
we stood in our first posture, with our faces toward the win- 
dow, as if we had not taken any notice of them. The person 
we had conversed with was an Englishman, a Muscovy mer- 
chant, known to the czar in his own country, understood his 
language, and was his interpreter. Then the czar spoke some- 
thing to him, which we did not understand. Upon which he 
asked us, ''Why do you not pay respect to great persons, when 
you are in their presence ?" I answered, So we do when we 



48 T. story's conversations, etc. 

are fullj sensible of it, especially to kings and princes : for 
though we have laid aside and decline all vain and empty 
shows of respect and duty, and flattering titles, whereby they 
are generally deceived, by insincere and designing men, who 
seem to admire them for their own ends; yet we yield all due 
and sincere respect and duty to such, and all in authority 
under them, by giving ready obedience to all their lawful com- 
mands. But when, at any time, any of them, either through 
tyranny or ignorance, or ill counsel, happens to command any- 
thing contrary to our duty to the Almighty, or his son Christ 
our Lord; then we ofi"er our prayers and tears to God, and 
humble addresses unto such rulers, that their understandings 
may be opened, and their minds changed toward us. 

The czar gave no reply to this, but talked with his interpreter 
again, who then asked : " Of what use can you be, in any 
kingdom or government, seeing you will not bear arms and 
fight V 

To this I replied, that many of us had borne arms in times 
past, and been in many battles, and fought with courage and 
magnanimity, and thought it lawful and a duty then, in days 
of ignorance ; and I myself had worn a sword, and other arms, 
and knew how to use them. But when it pleased God to 
reveal in our hearts the life and power of Jesus Christ, his 
Son, our Lord, who is the Prince of righteousness and peace, 
whose commandment is love, we were then reconciled unto 
God, one unto another, unto our enemies, and unto all men. 
And he that commandeth that we should love our enemies, 
hath left us no right to fight and destroy, but to convert them. 
And yet we are of use and helpful in any kingdom or govern- 
ment : for the principle of our religion prohibits idleness, and 
excites to industry; as it is written, "They shall beat their 
swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning 
hooks;" and we, being husbandmen, concerned in all manner 
of husbandry and improvements, as likewise in manufactories 
and merchandizing, with the blessing of Heaven upon our 
labors, do not want, but rather abound. And though we are 
prohibited arms, and fighting in person, as inconsistent (we 



FLATTERING TITLES AND TRIBUTE, ETC. 49 

think) with the rules of the Gospel of Christ; yet we can, and 
do, by his example, readily and cheerfully pay unto every 
government, in every form, where we happen to be subjects, 
such sums and assessments as are required of us by the 
respective laws under which we live. For when a general tax 
was laid by the Roman czar upon his extensive empire, and 
the time of payment came, the Lord Jesus Christ, whose 
kingdom is not .of this world, demanded of Peter : '^ Of whom 
do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute ? Of their 
own children or of strangers ? Peter saith unto him. Of 
strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. 
Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the 
sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh 
up : and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a 
piece of money, that take and give unto them (the tribute 
gatherers) for me and thee." Thus working a miracle to pay 
a tax, where yet it was not strictly due, we by so great an 
example do freely pay our taxes to Caesar, who, of right, hath 
the direction and application of them to the various ends of 
government, to peace or to war, as it pleaseth him, or as need 
may be, according to the constitution or laws of his kingdom ; 
and in which we, as subjects, have no direction or share : for 
it is Caesar's part to rule, in justice and in truth, but ours to 
be subject, and mind our own business, and not to meddle 
with his. 

Upon this the czar took several turns in the gallery or 
passage, and then came and looked steadfastly upon us, though 
we did not seem to mind him, or know that it was he. Then 
I said to the interpreter, that we understood there was a person 
of great dignity and distinction in that place, a stranger; very 
inspections into the state of affairs and things in general, and, 
no doubt, might be also inquisitive into the state of religion ; 
and we (being a people differing in some points from all others, 
and so much misunderstood and misrepresented in our own 
country, that even our neighbors themselves did not know us), 
lest that great prince should be misinformed, and imposed 
upon concerning us and our religion, had brought him some 
5 



50 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

books, dedicated to the sovereign of our native country ; by 
which he might please to see a full account of our principles. 
We then produced two of the Apologies in Latin. 

Then the czar talked again with the interpreter, who asked 
us : " Were not these books writ by a Jesuit ? It is said 
there are Jesuits among you." To which Gilbert Mollyson 
replied, "That is a calumny, and proves the necessity of our 
endeavors, in that respect, at this time. We have no Jesuits 
among us. Our religion and theirs differ very widely. This 
book was writ by a near relation of mine, who was not a 
Jesuit, but sincerely of those principles asserted and main- 
tained in the book, as our whole community is." 

And then the czar and interpreter talked together again ; 
after which the latter took some gold out of his pocket, and 
offered us for the books. But I told them, we were no such 
men as to want anything for the books, or otherwise. They 
were a present to that great prince, and given freely ; and all 
that we desired was, that they might be acceptable ; and that 
in case any of our Friends should, at any time hereafter, come 
into his country, and preach those principles contained in the 
books, and if they should meet with opposition and be per- 
secuted, by any officers or persons in power under him, for 
the same, he would please to afford them protection and relief. 
Then they talked together again, and the interpreter kept the 
books ; and the czar and Prince Menzikoff retired into the 
room from whence they came. 

They being gone, we asked the interpreter if that was the 
czar ? He said he was. Then we asked him, if he had told 
the czar the substance of what we had said ? and he said he 
had. Then we desired, that if he asked him any more ques- 
tions about us and our religion, not to mention to him any of 
those rude calumnies thrown upon us by ignorant and malicious 
persons, but the truth, to the best of his observation and 
information ; and he promised he would. Then he told us, 
that the czar did not understand the Latin tongue, but only 
bis own language and High Dutch. Then Gilbert Moll^^son 



FLATTERING TITLES AND TRIBUTE, ETC. 51 

gave one of the Apologies to the interpreter (for he had several 
with him), and so we departed in peace and satisfaction. 

This was about the beginning of the week, and the next 
first day the czar, the prince, and a great company of his 
other attendants, came in the morning to our meeting in 
Grace Church Street, all in English habits, like English 
gentlemen, and the same interpreter with him. I happened 
to be there in the gallery, and the first I knew was Menzikoff. 
Robert Haddock had begun to preach a little before they came 
in, upon the subject of ^'Naaman, the captain general of the 
host of the Assyrians, going to the prophet for cure of his 
leprosy ; who directing him to dip himself seven times in the 
river Jordan ', the general, despising the means, as too low a 
thing, expecting some ceremony or action from the prophet, 
was about to return without a cure, till being persuaded by 
his own servant to make a trial of the means prescribed, he 
found the end accomplished, by happy experience.'^ From 
which Robert drew this observation, as from a type of a more 
excellent and general nature and consequence, saying, " The 
nations of this world being defiled and distempered, as with a 
leprosy of sin and uncleanness, no cure or help could be found, 
until the Almighty, in his infinite goodness, sent his son Jesus 
Christ into the world, to die for man as a propitiation for sin ; 
through whom also he hath sent forth his divine light, Spirit, 
and grace upon all mankind, in. order for the completing of 
that cure ; which nothing less can do, and to which all man- 
kind are directed by the servants of Christ ; and as many as 
have believed and made trial of this excellent means, have 
found the blessed effects thereof; they have been healed, 
cured, and cleansed. Now,'' said he, '^if thou wert the 
greatest king, emperor, or potentate upon earth, thou art not 
too great to make use of the means ofi'ered by the Almighty 
for thy healing and restoration, if ever thou expect to enter his 
kingdom, into which no unclean thing can come." And the 
czar and his interpreter were often whispering together in the 
time, though Robert Haddock knew nothing of his being in 
the meeting ; and thus he stayed very sociably, till observing 



52 T. story's conversations, etc. 

the people crowd up before him to gaze (which he could not 
endurej, he retired on a sudden, along with his company, 
before the meeting was quite over : for some people in the 
streets had seen him as he came, and, by some means, had 
discovered who he was, and crowded after him to see him 
more perfectly. 



CHAPTER XIII. 
A GENTLEWOMAN AT SIIA.NNIGAIIY CASTLE. 

1698. 

SPECIAL PEOVIDENCES. 

On the 7th we went into the barony of Imokilley, where 
lies great part of William Penn^s estate in that kingdom, some 
of which he viewed, and we stayed there about till the 10th ; 
and being at the castle of Shannigary, belonging to him, a 
gentlewoman, of good sense and character, related to me the 
following passage, viz : that she, being in the city of Cork 
when it was invested by King William's army, and having a 
little daughter of hers with her, they were sitting together on 
a squab ; and being much concerned in mind about the danger 
and circumstances they were under, she was seized with a 
sudden fear and strong impulse to arise from that seat, which 
she did in a precipitant manner, and hasted to another part 
of the room ; and then was in a like concern for her child, to 
whom she called with uncommon earnestness to come to her, 
which she did ; immediately after which came a cannon-ball 
and struck the seat all in pieces, and drove the parts of it 
about the room, without any hurt to either of them. 

From this relation I took occasion to reason with her thus : 



SPECIAL PROVIDENCES. 53 

that intelligencer whicli gave her notice, by fear, of the danger 
they were in, must be a spiritual being, having access to her 
mind (which is likewise of a spiritual nature) when in that 
state of humiliation under those circumstances ; and must also 
be a good and beneficent intelligencer, willing to preserve 
them, and furnished also with knowledge and foresight more 
than human. He must have known that such a piece would 
be fired at that time, and that the ball would hit that seat, 
and infallibly destroy you both, if not prevented in due time, 
by a suitable admonition ; which he suggested by the passion 
fear (the passions being useful when duly subjected), and by 
that means saved your lives. And seeing that the passions 
of the mind can be wrought upon for our good, by an invisible, 
beneficent intelligencer in the mind, in a state of humiliation 
and stillness, without any exterior medium, is it not reasonable 
to conclude, that an evil intelligencer may have access likewise 
to the mind, in a state of un watchfulness, when the passions 
are moving, and the imagination at liberty to form ideas de- 
structive to the mind, being thereby depraved and wounded ? 
and when so, is it not likewise reasonable to think, that the 
Almighty himself, who is the most pure, merciful, and benefi- 
cent spirit, knowing all events and things, doth sometimes, 
at his pleasure, visit the minds of mankind, through Christ, 
as through or under a veil, so as to communicate of his good- 
ness and virtue to a humble and silent mind, to heal and 
instruct him in things pleasing to himself, and proper for the 
conduct of man in his pilgrimage through this present world, 
and lead him to the next in safety ? 

This coming immediately upon the instance she had given, 
took with her and the company ; who readily granted it might 
be so, and some of them knew it ; and this conversation seemed 
agreeable to us all. 



5* 



54 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 



CHAPTER XIV. 
THE DEAN OF LIMEEICK. 

1698. 

SILENT WOESHIP, ETC. 

Thus we travelled through the country visiting friends and 
meetings as we went, till we came up towards the south parts; 
where I left the company and went to Clonmell, in order to 
see my brother George, then Bean of Limerick, and met with 
him at Thomas Osborn's (eldest son of Sir Thomas Osborn), 
whose wife was my brother's wife's aunt. He had been sent 
into France for education, and there had embraced the Romish 
religion. 

When I came to the house, I found him of a frank and 
familiar temper, and in less than an hour he desired me to 
take a turn with him in the garden ; and, being there, he 
opened a back door into an avenue, and made the door fast 
that none might disturb us ; and, walking there together, he 
asked me some questions concerning our principles, and more 
particularly of our silent meetings, and of what advantage they 
were to us ; for he did suppose they were of some use, else 
we would not continue in the practice of them. 

I answered, that we had been, as other men, subject to 
common infirmities, and ignorant of God, as to any experi- 
ence of his presence and divine working in us, till it pleased 
him, in his own goodness and mercy, to visit us by the Spirit 
of his Son Christ ; through which we had known a time of 
condemnation and humiliation for sins past, and true repent- 
ance and forgiveness ; and believing in him, through the work 
of his spirit and power in our minds, he, with the light and 



SILENT WORSHIP, ETC. 55 

life of his Son, became the object of our faith ; by which also 
he sanctified our hearts, and reconciled us unto himself: so 
that the enmity being slain, and we made temples of the Holy 
Ghost, we now worshipped the Father through the Spirit of 
his Son, in a state of faith and obedience ; whereby we draw 
near unto him, even through that blessed medium which 
himself hath appointed, partaking of the nature of man ; not 
of flesh and blood only as the Son of Man, but also being 
clothed with a holy human mind, by him we are made par- 
takers of the divine nature as the sons of God ; as it is written, 
" He shall take of mine, and give it unto you :" And the 
Father being made manifest in him, we have instructions in 
wisdom and enjoyments in the divine and blessed presence 
of which the world, in a state of nature, is not aware, and not 
more so than in a state of true silence ; where all the passions, 
affections, and natural desires of the heart are silenced, by the 
all commanding voice and power of the divine word; who 
hath said, ''Let the worlds be, and it was so." 

He heard me with attention, and replied, ''that he firmly 
believed what I had said ; that we were such a people, and 
consequently the happiest in the world, over whom the 
Almighty hath a particular care," and then he began and told 
me a passage concerning himself, saying, " that he and some 
other gentlemen, being occasionally at Clonmell some time 
ago, they heard that one of our meetings was to be there that 

day, appointed by , one of our preachers from the west 

of England, and they agreed to go to it ; and after they had 
been there about half an hour, the rest all tired, and would 
have had him away with them ; but he was so much satisfied 
with what he felt there, that he could not go with them, but 
stayed the meeting to the end ; having never met with the like 
satisfaction anywhere else." 

By the time this relation was finished, he began to be appre- 
hensive that his priest might miss us out of the company, and 
be in quest of him (for he kept a popish priest in his house 
under the appearance of a gentleman), and so it proved; for 
we were but got back into the garden till he came to us : and 



56 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

the priest beginning to ask me some questions about religion, 
he withdrew ; for the priests will seldom permit, if they can 
avoid it, that their people shall hear any debates between them 
and Protestants, lest they should be infected with what they 
call heresy ; unless where they think they shall have manifestly 
the advantage in the argument upon the subject. 

The first question he asked me was, "whether we believed 
Predestination ?" I answered, no j but that the grace of 
God, through our Lord Jesus Christ, is universal, and free to 
all mankind. 

Then he said, they were of different opinions on that sub- 
ject; some one way, and some another, and then asked me 
what we thought of excommunication, what effect it is of in 
the Church ? I answered, that it ought to be applied to such 
as deny the faith in express words ; or, if not in words, yet by 
actions, by committing and persisting in any immoral or sinful 
acts ; or declining the common and stated rules of the com- 
munity, or terms of Christian communion among them : but 
that excommunication ought not to affect life, liberty, pro- 
perty, or the person of any one, but only to deny him Christian 
communion till reformed. "This,'' he said, " was not of suffi- 
cient force to awe offenders, or to induce their return, where the 
motives to their offences were strong and cogent." I replied, 
that to be denied communion by any real Christian congrega- 
tion, of which one is a member, is a matter of great weight 
and consequence : for certainly God is with and in his own 
appointments; and whosoever is denied by the Church of 
Christ, is denied by himself : for as she acts in and by his 
Spirit, which is ever in her, and present with her, it is his act 
by her, and- in that respect, she is called the ground and pillar 
of truth : and offenders, so denied, undergo, even in this life, 
a burden more sinking, than the loss of all they have in the 
world ; whereby life itself becomes a load and tedious. But 
where any form of excommunication is invented only by the 
wisdom or policy of men, from secular views, with punishments 
of their own contriving annexed, the Lord doth not co-operate 
there, nor own that ordinance ; so that the punishments award- 



SILENT M'ORSHIl', ETC. 57 

eil, wbieii are often inadequate, cruel, and unjust, are all 
that the excommunicated sustain : not fur the salvation of the 
soul, but satisfying the ends of power, pride, covetousness, and 
envy, to the destruction of the character, estate, body, and 
family, if not ruin of the soul, by complying (under such 
grievous temptations) with heterodox errors in opinion, and 
practices immoral, idolatrous, and antichristian ; fruits of the 
inventions of apostate and fallen spirits, by whom the children 
of men are deceived. 

What he would have replied to this, or whether anything, I 
do not know, but being then near the house, we were called 
to supper ; and during the time thereof, we were very peace- 
able ', but that being over, he began to introduce other matter 
of controversy. 

First, he saluted me with some encomiums, to tame me 
(though I was very peaceable, and my spirit over him in my- 
self), that he might cast his net with greater certainty and 
success. " Sir,'' said he, " I have heard a very good character 
of you, both as to your understanding, and other qualifications 
and accomplishments; from which I conclude, it must have 
been something extraordinary, or very particular, which hath 
induced you to embrace a religion and opinions, so much and 
so generally exploded by men of sense and penetration; and 
as sufficient reasons, to yourself at least, for what you have 
done on that account cannot be a-wanting to a man of your 
repute, I beg leave to ask you some questions, that I may be 
better informed than yet I have been, concerning the rehgion 
you now profess. 

" Do you believe there ever was such a man in the world, as 
Jesus Christ?" This question looked scurrilous and smiting; 
yet, perceiving he meant to lay a foundation for some further 
superstructure, I answered, Yes, we believe all that is written 
in the Holy Scriptures concerning our Lord and Saviour Jesus 
Christ, and upon as good a foundation and evidence, if not 
better, than any who have pretended to suspect us on that 
account. Then he went on : " Do you believe that Jesus 
Christ made choice of twelve persons, called Tiis apostles ?" I 



58 T. story's conversations^ etc. 

answered, Yes. Again said he, " Do you believe tliat Christ 
commanded his apostles to go teach all nations, baptizing them 
in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost V' I an- 
swered, Yes, with some restrictions and observations, now to 
be noted, we do. He continued to interrogate; "Do you 
believe that the apostles of Christ did go and preach and bap- 
tize, according to this command V I answered, as before. Yes. 
Then, said, he, " How can you be Christians, or disciples of 
Christ, who deny this baptism, and do not at all practise it V 

Then I asked him, if he did believe, and those of his com- 
munion, that the Lord Jesus, at that time, thereby instituted 
water baptism ? He answered, " They did believe, that Christ 
did, by these words, at that time, institute water baptism." 

Then I answered, that if they were not Christians who de- 
clined the use of water baptism, I would prove that neither 
himself, nor the Pope, nor any of his communion, are Chris- 
tians, not being baptized at all in the practice of what Christ 
commanded or instituted, at that time on that account, as fol- 
loweth : John the Baptist, being commanded by the word of 
God to baptize the Jews in water, foretold them of another 
baptizer much preferable to himself, and of a baptism super- 
excelling his, being of another nature, and more powerful and 
efficacious, with the Holy Ghost and fire : and this baptizer is 
Christ ; who having been circumcised, in obedience unto the 
ordinance of the law of Moses, under which, as man, he was 
born into this world, and fulfilled, in his own person, all the 
righteousness thereof incumbent upon him, according to the 
prophets, he was also baptized of John with water ] thereby 
not only submitting to that dispensation, as an ordinance of 
God for the time being, but also fulfilling all righteousness in 
his own person ', that being declared from heaven to be the 
Son of God, he might, from thenceforth, through the divine 
anointing poured upon him above all his brethren, and with- 
out measure, be the dispenser of all righteousness and truth 
unto all generations. And from thenceforth he preached 
repentance to the Jews, as John did, and by his disciples (but 
not in his own person), baptized likewise with water, as an 



SILENT WORSHIP; ETC. 59 

intermediate dispensation between the law and the Gospel : 
but with this difference, John baptized for a time, without 
directing the subjects of his baptism to any certain object of 
faith, saying, they must believe in one that was to come after 
him (for he did not then know that Jesus was the Christ) ; 
but the disciples of Christ, as also John, from the time of the 
baptism of Jesus, having believed in him as he is the Messiah, 
preached not only repentance, but also that Jesus is the Christ 
and Saviour promised of God unto Israel ; and consequently 
directed them unto him as the true object of their faith, and 
baptized in his name, and by his authority whilst yet present 
with them : and yet water baptism is but water baptism, whe- 
ther administered by Christ himself, or by any other he may 
command ; nor did John, or the disciples of Christ, administer 
water baptism in that day to any but the Jews or Proselytes 
among them. But after Christ had been crucified, and arisen 
from the dead, and his disciples with him, a little before he 
ascended into heaven, he- said unto them (the eleven), '^ All 
power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye there- 
fore and teach all nations, baptizing them into the name of 
the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost," &c. " Go ye into all the 
world, and preach the Gospel to every creature. He that 
believeth and is baptized shall be saved ; but he that believeth 
not, shall be damned. But do not depart from Jerusalem; 
but wait for the promise of the Father, which ye have heard 
of me. For John truly baptized with water ; but ye shall be 
baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. But ye 
shall receive power after the Holy Ghost is come upon you, 
and ye shall be witnesses unto me, both in Jerusalem, and in all 
Judea, and in Samaria, and to the uttermost parts of the earth. 
And teaching them all things whatsoever I have commanded 
you, and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the 
world." 

1st. The Lord Jesus declares his own power, and sufficient 
authority to institute this baptism: *^all power in heaven and 
inearth." 2dly. The extent of it : "to all nations;" to preach 
the Gospel to all the world ; thereby disciplining, or initiating, 



60 T. story's conversations, etc. 

all that believe and obey, into tbe divine nature of Father, 
Son, and Holy Ghost: and the act of baptizing is chiefly by 
preaching in the power and wisdom of the Spirit of Christ, 
and sometimes by laying on of the hands of his ministers, as 
moved thereunto by the same Spirit. 3dly. The advantage to 
be reaped by believing their message, and being baptized with 
this baptism, '^they shall be saved;" which salvation cannot 
be imputed to water baptism. 4thly. The judgment de- 
nounced against such as would not believe the message of his 
ministers and witnesses, thus qualified and sent ; " they shall 
be damned.'' 5thly. The apostles themselves were not to 
enter upon that work, nor could they perform it (notwith- 
standing this verbal command from his own mouth), but under 
the immediate influence of the Holy Grhost, and by his power 
only; being no other than the Spirit of Christ promised to 
them before he was crucified. 6thly. It was not water bap- 
tism ; for that he here contradistinguisheth from the baptism 
of the Holy Ghost, and ascribes it to John, saying, "John 
truly baptized with water," as a thing already over, at least in 
point of obligation; and then baptism of the Holy Ghost alone 
is here appointed, as thus distinguished by the adversitive 
part, He ; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not 
many days hence :" here water baptism was already over, or 
near an end, and the Spirit's baptism not yet actually com- 
menced, but only promised; and very soon after took place 
accordingly. Tthly. This baptism is such as cannot be per- 
formed without the immediate power of the Holy Ghost; and 
accordingly he is here mentioned to that end. And it cannot 
be water baptism, because any man can baptize with water 
without the Holy Ghost ; and all mankind who now use it do 
so, without any influence at all of the Holy Ghost, or any 
command from him to that purpose, if at all they have any 
real knowledge of him. 8thly. And since no power on earth 
can give this qualification, but Christ alone ; and that no man 
can be a true witness unto him, be his minister, or preach him 
and his Gospel, but by the power and influence of the Spirit 
of Christ, immediately upon him in the time of preachiog; 



SILENT WORSHIP, ETC. 61 

and that they only who are so qualified by him, have right 
or power to preach the Gospel (and that is in all parts of the 
world), they ought not to be hindered or molested by any 
earthly power : and such as do obstruct them are opposers of 
the work of Him who hath all power, and shall surely suffer 
by that power in this or another world ', or in both, if they 
do not, in due time, repent in this. 9thly. The matter and 
substance of their teachings (after having borne witness to 
himself and his sufferings), "All things whatsoever he had 
before commanded them;'' first, the old commandment, which 
they had heard from the beginning, viz. : The righteousness 
of the moral law, briefly expressed in these words, "Thou 
shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy soul, and with all 
thy strength, and thy neighbor as thyself," and, secondly, the 
new and Gospel commandment, that they should love one 
another, as the true and certain characteristic of their disciple- 
ship. lOthly. And, in this Gospel, and this practice, he pro- 
mised to be with them, and all those who should succeed them, 
In this faith and practice, to the end of the world. So that, 
as his true ministers can do nothing without him ; yet, as he is 
always with them, they are, by him, enabled to do all things, 
whatsoever it pleaseth him to work in or by them, or require 
of them : and whosoever set themselves at work pretending to 
exercise any ordinance of Christ, without his spirit and power 
sensibly with them, they are Antichrists and impostors ; and 
therefore they have not, nor can they profit the people, but 
mislead them. 

And as to those instances from whence thou seems to collect, 
that the apostles baptized with water after the effusion of the 
Holy Ghost upon them ; that was only a continuance of the 
same water baptism they had been in practice of in John's 
time, and not from that command and mission. Mat, xxviii. 19. 

As to the continuance of water baptism in the Church unto 
this day, that is a great mistake. For^ first, I observe what 
water baptism is in the act of it; that is, a going into water 
and being washed and dipped therein, and not rantized, or 
sprinkled only : and, secondly, note also, that what water bap- 
6 



62 T. story's conversations, etc. 

tism was administered in tlie apostles' days, was always only in 
the name of the Lord Jesus, and not in the name of the Father, 
Son, and Holy Grhost; which shows it was not from that com- 
mand in Matthew xxvii., 19, for then they would have pursued 
these terms of institution ; which they never did, by anything 
I can find in all the Scriptures. Now, I say again, that if 
they are not Christians, who are not under the administration 
-of water baptism, then you yourselves are no Christians, hav- 
ing been out of the practice even of that water baptism, for 
many generations ; inventing to yourselves sprinkling of infants, 
never commanded by Christ, nor practised by his apostles ; 
and is no baptism at all, but ran tism ; and is an error from 
both the mode and subjects of baptism : and therefore you 
only profane and take in vain that holy name, in which you 
exercise this your own invention. 

Upon this the priest was totally silent ; and knowing him 
bound, I challenged him three times before the company, to 
answer me on that subject if he could; and yet he never did, 
nor said anything at all on any other subject that night. 

Then my brother (seeming to be concerned for his brother 
priest, though of another form), said, '' I ought not to think 
the gentleman could say no more, because he was silent. '' To 
whom I answered, that I would not have him pretend to cover 
him; for I knew where he was, and that he could say no more; 
and added, that if himself had anything to say on that subject, 
I was ready for him too : for though I regarded the Dean of 
Limerick as in an office among men, and as my elder brother ; 
yet, being now in defence of Truth, I could regard no man so 
as to decline it on any account or consideration whatever. And 
then, he and all the company being silent, I told them, that 
the Papists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Independents, Bap- 
tists, and all their subdivisions, were of one spirit, and from 
one root, and would have like judgment in the end; having 
persecuted and destroyed each other in their turns, as they 
have had power; and all of them persecuted and oppressed the 
innocent, and still continue to do so where they can. 

This being on the seventh day at night, and now very late, 



CIRCUMCISION AND BAPTISM. 63 

I took leave of my relations, intending to meet William Penn, 
and John Everot, and Samuel Waldenfield, and John Vaugh- 
ton from London, next day at a meeting at Cashel : and pro- 
posing to go to rest, the gentlemen of the house would not 
suffer a servant to attend me to my chamber, but would go 
himself: and when there, he told me, ''that he had never 
heard those things so explained before ; that he was very glad 
of the occasion } and that he was of the same mind with me* 
therein : That he would gladly go with me in the morning to 
hear Mr. Penn, but that my brother and sister had not been 
at his house before that time since their intermarriage, and it 
would look as if he neglected them, if he should go with me : 
and besides, said he, this person, with whom you discoursed 
(as I hinted in the garden) is a priest, whom I keep in my 
house ; and I know he would take it ill if I should go to your 
meeting, and leave our own devotion.'^ 



CHAPTER XV. 
A TRADER FROM LONDON. 

CEDAR POINT, VIRGINIA. 



1699. 



CIKCUMCISION AND BAPTISM. 

After the meeting we returned with William Herbert to 
his house, where came to us a trading person from London ; 
and he being sitting with us, near the river, it came into my 
mind that he came for dispute; and he, and William Herbert, 
and his wife, going into the house, we followed them ; and as 
I passed the window, I perceived he was reading a passage to 
them out of a book, and when we went in, found it was con- 



64 T. story's conversations, etc. 

cerning the institution of circumcision, wliicli was to be 
administered on the eighth day of the age of the male infant ; 
asserting that baptism (he meant sprinkling of infants) was 
now as necessary as that was then : And then he began to 
allege against my companion, that he had uttered something 
in the meeting concerning baptism, which he could not main- 
tain by Scripture; that is, "that the baptism now used (he 
meant by the National Church) was never instituted of God, 
by any evidence appearing in Scripture, nor any precedent 
there for sprinkling infants; nor any water baptism command- 
ed since the baptism of John was put to an end." 

The first part we owned my companion had spoken, which 
the stranger oppugning, we put him upon his proof; and, after 
a short dispute, my companion brought him to confess that he 
could not defend it by Scripture : and then he went to the 
second part, viz, "nor any water baptism commanded since 
the baptism of John was put to an end." This we denied to 
have been spoken by my companion, as he stated it ; but since 
he had confessed himself a member of the National Church, 
my companion insisted that he had nothing to do with bap- 
tism with water till he should come into the practice of it. 

He replied, " You mentioned the thing in the meeting, and 
the question is not, whether I or another be of the Baptist's 
opinion and practice, but whether any water baptism was insti- 
tuted after John's baptism ?" But my companion having put 
him to silence as to sprinkling, and denying his charge as to 
the other part, said little more then to him. 

But a concern remaining upon me lest this man should go 
away boasting, I entered into the argument with him upon the 
subject at large; and that since he had asserted that Christ 
instituted another water baptism than that of John, I put him 
upon the proof of it. Then he cited that text in Matt, xxviii. 
19, " Go teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the 
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost," &c. 

I replied, that this text was not to his purpose, for water 
was not so much as mentioned in it; and if the Lord Christ 
had intended water, as the instrument of this baptism, he 



CIRCUMCISION AND BAPTISM. 65 

would have expressed it. To this he alleged, ^' That the prac- 
tice of the apostle, pursuant to this institution, determined 
that it was water baptism ; for from this time they baptized 
with water in divers instances, and particularly in that of 
Philip's baptizing the eunuch.'' 

Answer : The practice of the apostles doth not determine 
it to be water baptism, because they practised circumcision, 
vows, shavings, purifications, and other Jewish rites ; which, 
in point of obligation, were all ended by the coming of 
Christ in the flesh, and suffering for all mankind; and so was 
water baptism by the coming of the Holy Ghost ; but, for the 
better understanding of this command, observe, that John the 
Baptist was commanded by the word of God to preach repent- 
ance unto Israel, and to baptize them in water, directing them 
to the* true object of faith, then about to be made manifest; 
that is, Christ the Lord, the true Messiah and sent of God, 
though not known to John himself at that time ; and of whom 
he said, " I indeed baptize (or have baptized) you with water, 
but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire ;'' 
which shows there was a baptism of a more excellent and effi- 
cacious nature then to come, and by an administrator incom- 
parably superior to John, that is, Christ; who, when he appeared 
in the flesh to Israel his people, preached to them the same 
doctrine of repentance as John did ; and his disciples also 
preached the same, and baptized them with the same baptism 
as John did, differing only in this circumstance of administra- 
tion, John baptized them, saying they should believe in Christ 
then to come ; whereas the disciples of Christ baptized in the 
name of the Lord Jesus, declaring him to be the true Messiah 
that Moses and the prophets had prophesied of. 

Now, here is water baptism transferred from John to the 
disciples of Jesus (for Jesus himself baptized not with water), 
who made and baptized more than John did, and John being 
soon after martyred, water baptism remained under the admin- 
istration of the disciples of Christ only: and, until the resur- 
rection of Christ, we hear no more of the baptism of the Holy 
Ghost (as I now remember), foretold by John as aforesaid : nor 



66 T. story's conversations, etc. 

was the baptism of the Holy Ghost declared as a dispensation 
to the believers and disciples of Christ till a little before his 
ascension j nor established as such till the coming of the Spirit 
of Christ upon them at Jerusalem. 

Now, as to the introduction and terms of this baptism and 
dispensation, they lie thus in the Holy Scriptures : " All 
power in heaven and earth is given unto me,'' saith the Son 
of God ; " repentance and remission of sins must be preached 
in my name, unto all nations, beginning at Jerusalem ; and ye 
shall be witnesses unto me in Jerusalem, in Samaria, in Judea, 
in all the regions round about, and to the uttermost parts of 
the earth : go ye, therefore, teach all nations, baptizing them 
in (or rather into) the name of the Father, and of the Son, 
and of the Holy Ghost; teaching them to observe all things 
whatsoever I have commanded you ; and lo, I am wifh you 
always, even unto the end of the world." And, to obviate any 
misapprehension the disciples might be incident to, the Lord 
adds, " Go ye into all the earth, and preach the gospel unto 
every creature : he that believeth, and is baptized, shall be 
saved ; but he that believeth not shall be damned : But tarry 
ye at Jerusalem till ye have received power from on high ; but 
ye shall have power after the Holy Ghost is come upon you ; 
for John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized 
with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.'' 

Now, here is water baptism plainly ascribed to John, and 
the disciples of Christ already in the practice of it; and 
the baptism of the Holy Ghost as clearly distinguished from 
it, as being the permanent dispensation of God unto all, who 
should believe in Christ and the Holy Spirit to the end of the 
world, by the preaching of the Gospel by his own power ; which 
accordingly began at the city of Jerusalem, at the time of 
Pentecost, as by the testimony of Holy Writ. 

But to show how little poor mortals understand of the things 
of God, though ever so plainly told us by the hearing of the 
ear, without the Spirit of Christ revealed in ourselves, the 
disciples, who had been so long with him, and heard him speak 
as never man spake, being yet unconverted, though convinced, 
replied to all that he had then said on those divine subjects 



CIRCUMCISION AND BAPTISM. 67 

of the higtiest importance, '^ Wilt thou, at this time, restore 
aGcain the kincrdom unto Israel '/" And the words of Christ, 
though so plain as to the nature of this baptism, that is, with 
the Holy Ghost, and as to the extent of it, that is, to all na- 
tions, to all the earth, and to all mankind ; yet the apostles 
did not understand as to either, but still thought themselves 
confined to the Jews, till Peter was sent to Cornelius and his 
household, who were Gentiles. 

It is not to be admired, therefore, that the apostles, or some 
of them, might administer water baptism in some instances 
(though few plainly to be proved), since it was about eight 
years after the institution and commencement of the baptism 
of the Holy Ghost, as a dispensation, before they understood 
the nature or extent of it ; and no man knows any more of 
the things of God by the Holy Ghost than he opens or mani- 
fests to him. 

And it is also observable, that what baptism any of the dis- 
ciples administered with water, after the coming of the Holy 
Ghost, was not from that command, mentioned Matt, xxviii. 19, 
but from their practice of John's baptism before, and in his time, 
as appears by the manner of administration ; for it never was in 
the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, the terms of 
institution in that text, but only in the name of the Lord Jesus, 
or name of the Lord, being the same. 

But when your priest saith to a child of eight days of age, 
or the like, '^ I baptize thee in the name of the Father, Son, 
and Holy Ghost," he uttereth a false proposition ; for he doth 
not baptize, but rantize, or sprinkle, and taketh the name of 
the Lord in vain, using it where the Almighty hath not com- 
manded it to be used or named. 

After this my opponent said no more, but only this, " that 
he could not believe but that some water baptism was still 
necessary :" and so this conference ended in a friendly man- 
ner ; and I said to him as he departed, may he, whose word of 
wisdom alone can give understanding in the things of God, 
and speak forth knowledge in the secret of the heart, answer 
that ; for it is not in the power of man. And so he bowed in 
good manners, in his way, and departed. 



68 T. story's conversations, etc. 



CHAPTER XVI. 
A CHAMPION IN DISGUISE. 

STANFORD, CONNECTICUT. 

1699. 

PREDESTINATION. 

When this was over, we went into the inn, where several 
of their elders and champion disputants came to dispute with 
us, and one of them as a kind of cheat, in mean clothes ; and 
he sat down in the chimney corner, and, smoking tohacco, 
leered from under his old hat like an idiot : But his design 
was, as we apprehended, all of a sudden to break out in such 
wisdom as should surprise us in so mean an appearance ; yet 
he came off as meanly as he appeared. 

The first matter pitched upon was the universal free grace 
of God to all men, through our Lord Jesus Christ ; which we 
asserted, and fully maintained over them ; which being con- 
trary to their beloved and false doctrine of personal predesti- 
nation, it occasioned a discourse on that subject; which they 
asserted, and we opposed : and then the unlikely disputant 
came and placed himself at the head of the table, and espoused 
their cause; and, the proof being incumbent upon them, he, 
with great confidence, asserted, '' That God said, before Jacob 
and Esau were born, that he loved Jacob and hated Esau; 
and that it was the pleasure and decree of God from everlasting 
so to do, without any cause in either of them, being before 
they had done good or evil." 

Then I called for one of their Bibles, and told him he and 
they all were in a great mistake concerning that Scripture ; 
for God did not say, before the children were born, Jacob 



PREDESTINATION. 69 

haye I lovedj and Esau have I hated 3 but said, ''Two nations 
are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated 
from thy bowels ; and the one people shall be stronger than 
the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger." 
Here the answer of God, being a prediction, had no respect to 
the persons of Jacob and Esau; nor was it ever fulfilled per- 
sonally in them : for Esau, who was the elder, never served 
Jacob in person ; but, on the contrary, Jacob did obeisance to 
Esau, and called him his lord. Gren. xxxii., 4, 18, 20. 

This prediction, then, was written concerning the differing 
posterity of Esau and Jacob, and not their persons ; and was 
fulfilled in the Edomites of Mount Seir, who came of Esau, 
and Israel, who came of Jacob : and the displeasure of God 
against the Edomites, was not from any fore-hatred, or decree 
of God from eternity, as ye suppose ; but the moral cause of 
his displeasure and their ruin was, their great sins and wicked- 
ness, as declared by the prophets of God; and first by Ezekiel : 
^i Behold, Mount Seir, I am against thee, because thou hast 
had a perpetual hatred, and hast shed the blood of the child- 
ren of Israel, by the force of the sword, in the time of their 
calamity," &c. ; and likewise by Amos : " Because he did 
pursue his brother with the sword, and did cast off all pity, 
and his anger did tear perpetually, and keep his wrath for 
ever." And also by Obadiah, against Esau, that is Edora : 
" For the pride of thine heart ; for thy violence against thy 
brother Jacob, shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut 
off for ever." 

And last of all by Malachi, who hath it thus : " Was not 
Esau Jacob's brother, saith the Lord, yet I loved Jacob, and 
hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste," 
&c., which was for his pride, obstinacy, and opposition, per- 
sisting in final rebellion, impenitence, and contradiction : all 
which is still concerning Edom and Israel, and not the per- 
sons of Jacob and Esau ; the last of those prophets, having 
wrote about 441 years after the prediction of God to Rebecca, 
concerning their posterity. 

And the apostle, in his epistle to the Romans, where he 



70 T. story's conversations, etc. 

saith, ^' As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I 
hated/' refers to that of Blalachi, as above, about 457 years 
after Malachi wrote that prophecy. And in that chapter the 
apostle was laboring to convince the Jews, that they are not 
the true seed, or elect of God (as they seem to have imagined), 
because they were the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and 
Jacob, after the flesh : but Esau, being a rough, wild, hairy 
man, was a figure of the first birth of man after the flesh, as a 
son of the first Adam in the fall, who, in that state, cannot 
inherit the kingdom of God ; and Jacob, a figure of the second 
birth, or regenerate state of man, in Christ the second Adam ; 
who never fell, nor could fall : " For," saith the apostle, " they 
are not all Israel, who are of Israel, neither, because they are 
of the seed of Abraham, are they all children ; but in Isaac 
shall thy seed be called. That is, they who are the children 
of the flesh, these are not the children of God ; but the children 
of the promise are counted for the seed." 

Now, say I, the promise is Christ, the Messiah, the elect 
and promised seed of God ; of whom it is written, " I and the 
children which thou hast given me :" which children are all 
that believe in him, as he is the man Christ Jesus, the Son 
and Word of God, and light of the Gentiles ; and are born of 
him, by the influence of his Holy Spirit working in them. 

And as the Edomites hated and persecuted Israel, and took 
all occasions and advantages against them to do them hurt, 
till for so doing they were cut ofl^, and for their other sins 
when full ; so likewise the Jews hated, rejected, and persecuted 
Christ, the elect of God : for which they also were cut ofi", and 
remain infidels to this day : and they also now, as in all ages, 
who are born only after the flesh, and not after the Spirit, do 
hate, persecute, and, as much as they can, destroy them who 
are born of the elect seed of God, after the Spirit; for which, 
if they repent not in time, they will likewise be cut ofi", 
and perish everlastingl3^ This weakened one of our opponents, 
and his spirit fell much, and the better part came a little up, 
and in view ; but the foolish-like disputant, instead of appear- 
ing in wisdom, acted like himself, in a precipitant, ungovern- 



PREDESTINATION. 71 

able, furious zeal, and, starting up in tlie spirit of Edoin, said, 
" I affirm, that all the sins Esau ever committed, were the 
effects of the eternal decree of God, and hatred against him, 
before he was created, and not the cause of that wrath and 
fore-hatred :'' and so, in a rage, would have run away, but I 
kept close to the table (he being behind it), and hindered him ; 
and looking him in the face, replied, ^' I affirm ! who art 
thou?" looking upon him till his lofty spirit fell under; and 
then I, repeating the assertion, demanded his proof from the 
Scriptures; but none could be had. 

Then I returned it upon him, as a false, blasphemous, and 
unjust charge against the Almighty; under which he remained 
silent: and the other asking me a question, to be iaformed 
concerning the light of Christ in man, which he confessed he 
knew nothing of, he slunk away in the mean time through the 
crowd of people on the other side of the table, and made off 
out of the house; and the Truth came over all, and I believe 
several understandings were, in some degree, opened on that 
subject, and some other points; for we had no further dispute, 
but the other opponent, and the people, parted with us in a 
friendly manner; the better part being sensibly reached and 
above : and then we departed in the peace of our Lord Jesus 
Christ; to whom be the praise of all; for of him is the under- 
standing and power, now and forever. 

That evening we went forward to Fairfield, about twenty 
miles, and lodged at the house of one Philip Lewis. He told 
us there was to be a great meeting of their people, and a quar- 
terly lecture, in that place next day, to the inhabitants of seven 
townships and all their ministers. We took notice of it, but 
said nothing ; but in the morning, my companion told me, he 
thought he could not go clear from thence if he did not go to 
the lecture ; at which I was well pleased, for I had likewise a 
secret inclination to be at the meeting; but, not having seen 
clearly a sufficient warrant in myself for such an undertaking, 
I was not forward to engage, or speak of it : but walking into 
a field, I sat down upon a stone on the top of a little hill, and 
the word of Truth began to work in me more fully and clearly; 



72 T. story's conversations, etc. 

and then I received not only free will, but likewise power; 
yet still kept the thing to myself : and, returning to ray com- 
panion at the inn, thither came the priest of Stanford, before 
mentioned, to inquire privately of our landlord, whether we 
intended to appear at their lecture ; which he not knowing, 
but as he conjectured by our staying, told him he would in- 
quire of us ; and then we were free to tell him, it might so 
fall out ; which he told the priest ; who took it for granted, 
and returned to the rest : And their first bell being rung, 
notice was given not to ring the second till an hour after the 
usual time, by which we reasonably conjectured they held a 
consultation in the meanwhile what to do if we came; and 
prepared or altered the sermon, to suit the occasion. 

When the time came we went to the meeting-house, and 
they had begun their prayer; which we perceiving as we ap- 
proached the door, did not then enter, lest we should ofi"end 
them with our hats, for we did not intend to interrupt them in 
their worship ; but going aside, we sat down upon the green, 
where we could hear the voice of him that prayed, though not 
distinguish his words : He made a very long prayer ; which 
being ended, they sang a psalm of David ; and we stayed till 
that was over, and then entered as the preacher was giving 
out his text, which was from the first three verses of the 
55th chapter of the prophecy of Isaiah, in these words, " Ho, 
every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters; and he that 
hath no money, come ye, buy and eat; yea, come buy wine 
and milk, without money and without price. Wherefore do ye 
spend money for that which is not bread; and your labor for 
that which satisfieth not ? hearken diligently unto me, and 
eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in 
fatness. Incline your ear, and come unto me ; hear, and your 
soul shall live ; and I will make an everlasting covenant with 
you, even the sure mercies of David." 

This text we were well pleased with, for he could hardly 
have taken one, more apt against himself and all others, whose 
ground of preaching is their own gain and livelihood, and for 
their own honor, interest, and advancement in the world. 



. PREDESTINATION. (6 

He divided his text into four heads, and then into several 
branches and subdivisions. His sermon would be too tedious 
to recite, nor can I, verbatim ; but, in the handling of the 
matter, he asserted, " the universal free grace of God, in Jesus 
Christ; and that he is offered to all, but many reject him for 
the trifles of this life ; and consequently their damnation is of 
themselves,^' &c. 

And here I think proper to insert the names of the ministers, 
the town justice, and constables : for the township of Stratford, 

Israel Chancy, who made the sermon ; for "Woodbury, 

Walker ; for Fairfield, where we then were, Joseph Webb ; for 
Stanford, mentioned before, John Davenport ; for Norwalk, 
Stephen Buckingham ; for Danbury, Seth Shove ; for Paqua- 
nock, Charles Chancy; Nathan Gould, justice: constables, 
Joseph Wakeman, Daniel Frost, Dougal Mackenzie. 

The sermon being over, the minister went to prayer ; which 
being finished, the priests and people began to move away; 
which was scarce discernible, till Roger Gill, my companion, 
stood up on a form, and began to speak, saying, '' We have 
patiently heard what hath been declared ; and having some- 
thing likewise to say, we expect the like moderation from you." 
Upon which the people halted, and would have heard ; but, 
in a moment, five of the preachers, who were in a gallery, 
descended from thence, and the other two arose from their 
seats, and called to the people to depart; and some of them 
cried aloud for the powers : But he that had preached took 
Roger Gill by the hand as he stood on the form, and prayed 
him to come down ; and Roger urging the reasonableness of 
our liberty to speak, since they had done, the priest of Stan- 
ford cried out, " Sir, you are not qualified ; you have no call 
from the people as we have." 

To which Roger replied, '• Have you your qualifications and 
call only from the people ? Our call is from God, and we 
recommend our testimony to the consciences of the people : 
Through the grace of God we call them to the faith and obedi- 
ence of Christ, and not thev us." 

Then the priest rejoined, ''that their qualifications to preach 



74 T. story's conversations, etc. 

were of God, but the call of the people was also necessary ;'' 
and then cried out, Where are the powers ? Upon which 
Nathan Gould, their justice, commanded the constables to 
take us into custody ; one of whom arising from, his seat, his 
next neighbor pulled him down, many being desirous to hear 
us ; but, soon after, several of them came and haled us away : 
Then I called to the people, and told them, they were not from 
thenceforth to pay anything to their ministers for preaching, 
since they had made open proclamation, that all was now to be 
without money or price j at which many of them smiled, but 
I had not said anything before. The constables took us out 
from among them, to the further side of a large street; and 
then I demanded a sight of their warrant, and they confessed 
they had none but the justice's command : Then I took their 
names in writing, and admonished them to beware of false 
imprisonment; for they themselves knew that I had neither 
done nor said anything against any law. They replied, " We 
were not in prison :" But, said I, custody is imprisonment by 
the law of England. Then they were a little surprised, and 
my companion went from them back to the people, most of 
whom were remaining about the meeting-house; and there he 
had a good opportunity to clear himself among them. 

And while he was speaking, a Predestinarian (for he spake 
against that tenet) came to interrupt him ; but another of 
their own party pulled him away, and said, ^^The man spake 
truth -J' and I also kept several of them off, by giving them 
soft words, and desiring them to be patient till he had done, 
and then to object if they had anything against him : but he 
met with no opposition in the end; for, after awhile, they 
were generally very sober, and some tender. 

When he had finished, I did not find anything upon me for 
the people, but asked them where their ministers were, for I 
had a mind to see them ; and several were forward to show us 
they were gone to the house of the minister of the town, and 
we went thither; where, when we came, we understood they 
were at dinner, and the master of the house coming to us, I 
told him we desired to speak with them ; but, seeing it was 



PREDESTINATION. 75 

then unseasonable, wc would call after they had dined. He 
kindly invited us to eat with them, and said we should be as 
welcome as any there; but we returned to our inn, and after 
refreshment we went back to them ; where they were smoking 
tobacco. 

When we entered the room they generally arose from their 
seats to tender their civilities ; only the preacher, being old, 
and weary with the work of the day, and lying upon the bed, 
did not arise, but spake kindly to us. And seats being set, I 
sat down upon the bed's foot, at the feet of the preacher, and 
the rest, with my companion, sat round; and some of them 
urging me to take a chair, as a better seat, I told them I took 
that seat for the better advantage of seeing them all at once. 
Then, being a short time silent, I began, and proceeded to 
expostulate matters with them, and about their treatment of 
us in their meeting-house; reminding them of our behavior, 
and patience ; adding, that we came not to disturb them, but 
in Christian love and good-will to them and the people ; 
urging their duty to us as strangers, and the order of the 
Gospel. I recounted also to them the occasion of the coming 
of their ancestors (if not of some of themselves, being ancient 
men) into those parts of the world, then a desolate wilderness, 
viz., for conscience sake, as dissenters from the national wor- 
ship of England. That it looked unaccountable that they 
there, being hated, imprisoned, plundered, and divers ways 
persecuted for that which was, or seemed to be, matter of 
conscience to them, should now use the like practices, against 
such as, for conscience sake, were now appearing against some 
things yet unreformed among them and their people, both in 
doctrine and practice ; among which a necessity of being called 
by the people to minister to them, is one. 

This brought that point again into question ; and John 
Davenport, being, as we supposed, the most learned, and best 
orator among them, undertook it; and asserted, ''that Christ 
called and ordained twelve apostles, and they ordained others, 
and those again others, successively unto this day/* 

That Christ ordained twelve apostles, we granted; but 



76 T. story's conversations, etc. 

denied that any, at this day, were in a lineal succession from 
the apostles so ordained, and put him upon his proof; and 
that they themselves were so ordained by such succession ; 
but he could make nothing of it. All he could say for proof 
amounting to no more than his say so, or a repetition of the 
assertion. And he also slunk from the question about the 
call of the people to their ministers. 

. Then said I, but if it were possible to prove such a succes- 
sion, who are ye? How like are you to the apostles? How 
doth it appear that you are such ? How and what do you 
succeed them in ? You greatly err in your practice from the 
apostles of Christ. For where do you find, that ever they sat 
down in little corners of the world, and received maintenance 
from the people, for themselves and families ? and of such too 
as were not able or willing to pay them ? As your case is (for 
some of them had, by a law, taken the very wearing apparel 
of some poor people that could not pay them) to take from 
them their goods and apparel. 

Then their champion, being in a rage, spluttered out a 
mouthful or two of Greek, signifying, '' that Paul the apostle 
had robbed other churches, taking wages of them to supply 
the wants of the Corinthians to whom he then wrote ; and, 
*Uhou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out 
the corn.'' 

To which I replied, that their sect, as well as others, had 
justly blamed the Papists, for having their service in an un- 
known tongue ', and I suspected that the using of it then was 
for the like end, that the auditory might not understand (for 
there were many people, and of the greater sort among them, 
present); so that they might have an opportunity, after we 
were departed, to say they had overcome us. I then bid him 
repeat those Scriptures in English, that the people might hear 
they were nothing to his purpose ; which after several evasions 
lie did, first saying, after a scoffing manner, " if you be a 
minister of Christ, inspired of the Holy Grhost, surely you 
know the tongues." 

I replied, it is not a sentence or two of Greek, or of any 



PREDESTINATION. 77 

other language, that renders a man knowing in those tongues, 
nor is that an essential qualification to a minister of Christ. 
The prophets of God of old, spake to the people by the Spirit 
of Christ, but in their own language 3 and so did the apostles 
too, notwithstanding the gift of tongues, which every minister 
had not; and that gift was also to cease, and is ceased, though 
inspiration remains ; and no man is either a minister of Christ 
or a Christian without it. " He that hath not the Spirit of 
Christ, is none of his.'' And where a minister speaks in a 
language understood by the people to whom he is sent, it 
answers the end of speech to all intents, though neither he 
nor they understand any other. And I am of the mind of the 
apostle, who said, "I had rather speak five words with the 
spirit and understanding, than five thousand in an unknown 
tongue/' yet thou dost not know what I understand of Greek, 
or any other than that in which I now speak. But, to invert 
thy own terms, Art thou a minister of Christ ? and hast thou 
thy tongues by inspiration ? or art thou a scoffer at inspira- 
tion, and a minister of Christ without it ? To which he was 
silent ; and I went on to show to the people, that the texts he 
had cited were nothing to his purpose, and that he and his 
brethren had nothing to do with them. For, in the first place, 
they could not prove their succession as ministers of Christ, as 
they had proposed; and, failing in that, they had no right to 
claim advantages due only to such. In the second place, 
what the apostle there received, was not for the maintenance 
of himself and family, but for the service of the congregation in 
a time of general want. And as to the treading out of the 
corn, he had not yet proved, that he, or they, were of those 
oxen, or that they trode out that corn ; and therefore the 
Scriptures which might be applicable to the apostles and 
ministers of Christ, were but wrested, as applied to him and 
them, and their ease : For the apostles never had such a 
maintenance as theirs; but wrought with their hands for 
their support, and the help of others also, which was not 
their practice. 

He then betook himself to railing and abuse, and gave us 
7* 



78 T. story's conversations, etc. 



scurrilous language and names; calling us grasshoppers, scliis- 
matics, heretics, deceivers, and the like ; and pretended to 
prove his rude charge by a syllogism, which he formed thus : 
" What people soever deny the Lord Jesus Christ, and his 
ordinances, and set up the light of the devil in themselves for 
a Saviour, are heretics : but the Quakers, ever since George 
Fox, blasphemously preachfed up that light in themselves for the 
Saviour of the world, have denied the true Christ and his ordi- 
nances ; therefore the Quakers are heretics and blasphemers." 

Then I looked upon the people round about, and said. Do 
you think that this man behaves like a minister of Christ ? 
Is this language becoming such a one ? What spirit do you 
think he is of? and from whom proceeds this behavior? 
Upon which some smiled and others blushed. Then I pro- 
ceeded to answer him, that we do not, nor ever did, deny the 
Lord Jesus Christ, nor any of his ordinances, in their various 
and proper dispensations and seasons : but say, Grod is Light; 
and so likewise is Jesus Christ the Son of God, the eternal 
emanation of the Father's glory. He is the word, wisdom, 
and power of God ; the Word that was made flesh, born of the 
Virgin Mary, and dwelt among his people, the Jews, under 
the name of Jesus Christ ; which is also that true light, which 
lighteth every man that cometh into the world. And neither 
George Fox, nor any other minister of Christ among us, nor 
we, ever preached any other Christ or light, but this, which 
one of your ministers here, calls the devil. Let him therefore 
look at his own heresy and blasphemy, and repent. 

Then turning to this red-hot blaspheming priest, I told him 
his syllogism betrayed his ignorance, and his passions his pre- 
pensed malice; being only an affirmation of the same false 
charge twice in differing terms, and a stratagem of Satan to 
amuse the auditory, divert the question, and introduce foreign 
matter; and so to give him an opportunity to shrink from the 
point in hand undiscovered, under the fog of his own raising, 
I then observed to the people, that their ministers were utterly 
unable to prove any call they had to a Gospel ministry ; as 
they might plainly perceive by what had then passed betweeu 



PREDESTINATION. 79 

US : and my companion was, all this time, keeping the rest in 
order, that they should not break in upon us with other matter 
till that was discussed, as they often attempted. 

As to the other pretended proof, that we are heretics, it is, 
he saith, because we deny the ordinances of Christ, as he calls 
them ; and, by the ordinances of Christ, he and they mean 
water baptism, and bread and wine; and by baptism, they 
mean the sprinkling of infants in the face with water, in the 
name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost ; as by their frequent 
practice is evident to the world. Then I told them they had 
deceived the people, in administering that to them for an 
ordinance of Christ, which he never commanded ; and that 
whoever set up, and administer for ordinances of Christ what 
he hath not commanded, are liable to the curse : For if God 
will add the plagues, written in the book, to such as shall add 
to or take away from the words of the book ; and if their part 
shall be taken out of the book of life, how much more may not 
the Lord, one day, inflict his just judgments and condemna- 
tion upon such as presume to add anything, or take away from 
any of his ordinances, or anything commanded by him ? 

You say, in your catechism, that baptism with water is an 
ordinance of Christ, necessary to salvation ; and what you mean 
thereby is plain, as before : I therefore demand your proof, 
that sprinkling infants is an ordinance of Christ, necessary to 
salvation ; and that they are heretics who decline the practice 
of it. This gave all the priests very much disturbance, but the 
people were grave and silent; and they earnestly pressed, first 
to prove water baptism an ordinance of Christ, and then they 
pretended to prove the other : but we insisted that they had 
nothing to do with baptism, but to prove the sprinkling of 
infants, as they used it, to be an ordinance of Christ ; for this 
is a day wherein every man (and sect too) must be judged 
according to their works, and not by the works of other men : 
Then we observed to the people, that their pretended proof of 
water baptism was only a subtlety to alter the state of the ques- 
tion, and introduce another thing (as they had done before in 
the other case) which they have no right to maintain till they 



80 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

practise it. Let them first be baptized themselves, and then 
we may reason with them on that subject. For when we talk 
with Baptists we know what to say (and to them too if it were 
proper) ; but sprinkling is their point to prove, or nothing. 

Then John Davenport changed colors, grew very red, 
though naturally pale, and, arising from his seat, turned his 
back upon the people, and pretended to prove infant baptism 
an ordinance of Christ : but we still insisted on sprinkling, not 
baptizing, of infants, as their proper task ; and, at length, he 
undertook it, and begun thus : 

1st. That Christ said, ^' Suffer little children to come unto 
me, and forbid them not." 2dly. That the jailer's family, as 
we read in Scripture, were all baptized, and there might be 
children among them. 3dly. And that the commission was 
to baptize the whole world ; and surely there were children 
there. 

To this I replied, that what he had advanced for a proof 
was altogether fallacious; for, 1st, the end the people had in 
bringing their children to Christ was not to sprinkle or baptize 
them (for he baptized none), but that he might lay his hands 
upon them, and bless them j in which he answered the faith 
and expectation of the people, saying, '' Of such is the king- 
dom of Heaven. '^ The Son of Grod, therefore, having thus 
blessed them, and declared their innocence, being yet neither 
baptized nor sprinkled, let us leave them safe in his holy arms, 
and under his care, protection, and blessing; where they are 
fully happy, without anything you can add to their condition. 

2dly. As there might be children in that jailer's family, so 
likewise there might be none ; and where the Scripture is silent 
as to facts, we ought not to presume to speak ; and, from a 
bare possibility, to assert a fact, especially in a thing of this 
moment, is not good reasoning : but, besides, it is plain there 
were no children in the jailer's family; for they all believed, 
which children cannot do; and, to keep to the point, those 
believers were baptized, not sprinkled. 

And, 3dly, as to that text alluded to, with other concomitant 
Scriptures, they lie thus : '^ Repentance and remission of sins 



PREDESTINATION. 81 

should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning 
at Jerusalem : That all power is given unto him, in Heaven 
and in earth : Go ye, therefore, said he, and teach all nations, 
baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy 
Ghost; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have 
commanded you, &c. Go into all the world, and preach the 
Gospel to every creature ; he that believeth and is baptized 
shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned: 
and that they should be witnesses unto him of these things ;" 
of his life, doctrine, miracles, sufferings to death on the cross, 
resurrection, and ascension, both " in Jerusalem, and in all 
Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost parts of the 
earth." 

The subjects of this baptism (not rantism) are such as have 
sinned, and are capable of being taught or discipled; of 
believing; of repentance ; of observing all his commands, to do 
them ; of receiving their testimony and doctrines of the Gospel 
in all these particulars, on pain of damnation ; of which child- 
ren are not capable, and therefore not included in the intent 
and nature of this commission, though living in the world. 

The word jdaTtrw, of which ^arcri^o), in the Greek language, 
signifies to drown, or sink in water; to dip; to overwhelm; to 
plunge; to thrust in, or to go into water; to steep, or infuse; 
to dye, or color ; to tincture, or, as it were, to impregnate one 
thing with the nature of another; as if the subject of baptism, 
which is dipped, should be intinged or impregnated with the 
qualities of the instrument of baptism, into which it is dipped, 
or washed : But when the Greeks would express the thing 
sprinkling, which is a different act from washing or baptizing, 
they do it by the word pa\JTtZ(o ; which, in its various modes, 
-is always used, as Hob. ix. 19, where it is, 'Eppdut'.as; and 
Heb. X. 22, xii. 24. 1 Pet. i. 2. Pa^^ziaixb^j aijxaro ^Ir^as 
Xptqa, et aspersionem sanguinis Jesu Christi, and sprinkling 
of the blood of Jesus Christ. See Heb. ix. 21. "Eppd^riffs, 
aspersit, he sprinkled, &c. So that rantizing or sprinkling of 
infants, as an ordinance of Christ, and that they are heretics, 
or schismatics, who decline it, is yet to be proved, and is a 
false and unchristian charge. 



82 T. story's conversations, etc. 

He was loath to yield the point before the people, being a 
matter of great importance to their function, and therefore 
rejoined thus: ^'The reason of things in this, as in all other 
matters, ought to have some consideration and sway in this 
case : The baptizing or dipping of children in cold countries, 
might hazard their lives ; and for that reason may be indulged 
with sprinkling only, as thereby rendering the ordinance more 
safe and commodious." 

To this I replied, that though this was sufficiently answered 
in what had passed before, yet I would give it a more particu- 
lar return : that the greatest part of the habitable world lies 
in the torrid and two temperate zones. In the first it is suffi- 
ciently warm at all times, without any hazard of infants taking 
cold by baptism, or washing; so that if they were the subjects 
of baptism, as they are not, the mode need not be altered from 
washing to sprinkling on that pretence ', and in each temperate 
zone it is likewise sufficiently warm great part of the year; and 
never so cold as to hazard the life or health of a child by dip- 
ping in cold water (and they are not forbid to warm it) : for 
the common practice of the Indians upon their children, in 
the coldest parts of the habitable world, proves it ; where they 
wash their children in cold water immediately upon their being 
born into the world, the better to harden them to the climate 
they are in, without any such effects ; on the contrary, it ren- 
ders them more hardy and healthy. 

And besides, the Lord Jesus, knowing all objections, makes 
no exceptions, which infinite goodness and wisdom would have 
done, if proper in his sight, and wanted no assistance in the 
manner or extent of his ordinances, from the ignorant and 
weak, yet too bold and presumptuous reasonings of poor mor- 
tals, how high, lofty, and conceited soever they may be in their 
own earthly wisdom and imaginations ; and thus, erring from 
the truth in mode, subject, and instrument of baptism, you 
have none at all; but are deceived yourselves, and have de- 
ceived the people. And thus, being tied down to their own 
practice by the secret invisible power of truth, he was totally 
silent; and they did not offer any further argument upon it. 



PREDESTINATION. 83 

Then I addressed myself more particularly to the people, 
and told them again they had no baptism, but were only in the 
practice of a relict of Popery, instead of an ordinance of 
Christ : For the antichristian Church of Rome, imagining 
children to have original sin, and that something should be 
done to clear them of it, they thought upon water baptism as 
the effectual means, which accordingly they administered : but 
afterwards they declined baptism, and substituted rantism, or 
sprinkling, first to sick or weakly children, and afterwards 
extended their new invention to all children ; so that water 
baptism was wholly dropped, and John the Baptist's predic- 
tion fulfilled, '' I must decrease (that is, his baptism), but he 
(that is, Christ and his baptism with the Holy Ghost) must 
increase." 

And to their new invention they added several superstitious 
and ridiculous actions and ceremonies; they appointed god- 
fathers and godmothers; the priest breathes in the child's 
face ; signs him on the breast and forehead with the sign of 
the cross (but without any remaining mark) ; puts salt in his 
mouth, and spittle upon his ears and nostrils ; and asks him 
(though he understands nothing) if he will renounce the devil 
and all his pomps ; anoints him with oil on the head, shoul- 
ders, and breast; and gives him a white chrysom, and puts a 
hallowed candle in his hand. And the effects they ascribe to 
all this are, 1st, It makes the subjects thereof children of Grod, 
and remits both original and actual sin. 2dly, It infuseth jus- 
tifying grace into the soul, with habits of faith, hope, and 
charity, and all supernatural gifts and virtues. 3dly, It makes 
a spiritual mark or character in the soul, which shall remain 
for ever, either to their great joy in heaven, or confusion in 
hell. 

But when the Lutherans and Episcopalians in England 
reformed a little from Rome, they laid aside the superstitious 
part, except godfathers, godmothers, and the sign of the cross 
on the forehead, which they still retain ; and ascribe the like 
effects to their act of sprinkling, and the ceremonies and pray- 
ers they use on that occasion : and when your predecessors, 



84 T. story's conversations, etc. 

the Presbyterians and Independents in England, reformed and 
dissented from them, they rejected the sign of the cross, god- 
fathers, godmothers, and forms of prayer used by the Church 
of England, as Popery and superstition : but their eyes being 
but once touched, they saw men as trees, not perceiving that 
sprinkling of infants is Popery, an antichristian invention as 
well as the other ; which remaining unreformed by your first 
reformers, hath passed unto you of this present age, by tradi- 
tion, unexamined and unreformed. And so ignorant or wil- 
fully blind are your ministers, that we are here branded before 
you as heretics, schismatics, and deniers of the ordinances of 
Christ, for testifying against Popish inventions and relics. 

But while I was upon this, several of the priests, very will- 
ing to cover themselves from their people, started up; and he, 
and he, and he, every one had something else to offer : but my 
companion, being a bold man in the cause, kept them back, 
and told them " their several somethings else, being foreign to 
the present subject, ought not to be admitted till this should be 
settled ;" which concluding as above, he then challenged all the 
seven ministers, " that if tbey would call a meeting of all the 
people of their seven townships to that place we would stay, 
if it were some days, and discourse with them on what points 
they pleased openly before them ;" but they refused, and so 
their somethings else came to nothing. 

In the mean time, while he was thus challenging them, I 
sat down again on the bed^s foot by the old minister, and the 
rest of them ; and, people generally in motion, he arose and 
came to me, and took me by the hand, and whispering, said, 
^' Pray, sir, cannot you pass quietly along, and let those things 
alone ; for though there is little in them, the people have a 
belief therein; they think well of them; they are innocent 
things, and do them no harm." 

To which I answered, that they and their forefathers have 
said, and do say, they were conscientious in discovering and 
rejecting the errors and superstitions of the Papists and Epis- 
copalians, in this and other points, and in exposing them to 
the people; so are we, in our time, conscientiously concerned 



PREDESTINATION. 85 

for the love of truth and souls, without any other considera- 
tion, to expose to the view of mankind such errors as yet 
remain among them, wherever we come, and are enabled by 
divine grace to do it : and this matter of sprinkling of infants, 
though of little account in itself, yet as it is set up as an ordi- 
nance of Christ, which it is not, it is no indifferent matter, 
but hath been, and is of pernicious consequence to the Christ- 
ian religion, the people being taught to believe they have 
Christian baptism, when in deed and in truth they have none 
at all ; and therefore are set down short, and secure in a false 
rest, and seek no further for the true baptism of Christ; which 
is only by the Holy Spirit, and without the knowledge whereof 
no soul can be saved. And so we concluded ; I arising in 
order to our departure, being then easy and willing to proceed 
on our journey, and they were likewise willing we should; for 
they had some things, they said, to discourse and settle among 
themselves respecting the affairs of their society, which had 
been interrupted on that occasion. 

But our landlord in town having the night before informed 
us that the inhabitants had among them a very large flock of 
sheep, under one shepherd ; and that they, in their turns, had 
the flock folded on their lands, at a certain price each night, 
thereby to manure them ; by which they raised as much money 
as paid their minister, and discharged some other public ex- 
penses besides; which gave my companion occasion to say to 
those ministers, ^' that he had read in the Scriptures of some 
who fed themselves with the fat, and clothed with the wool, 
and fed not the flock; but the like of them he had never 
heard of before, who fed both of the flock, and the dung of 
the flock.'^ 

Then the minister of the town said, " he could not save 
ten shillings a year out of his whole income." ^' How !" said 
my companion, " eighty pounds a year salary, and a house and 
land worth ten pounds a year more, and not ten shillings a 
year to spare? thou and thy family must live more mode- 
rately." Then he offered us a glass of cider (for we were in 
his iouse), and proposed it first to me ; but I refused it, say- 
8 



86 T. story's conversations, etc. 

ing I did not so out of any prejudice or dislike to his or their 
persons, but lest we might seem to justify by practice what, by 
words, we had condemned ; for they had nothing to give but 
what they obtained by that unlawful trade of preaching for 
hire. 

After this I reasoned the case with the town justice, why 
he had ordered us into custody ; seeing, by the law of Eng- 
land, we had liberty as well as others, and they could have no 
law to the contrary; and besides, we gave them no disturbance 
in the time of their worship, unless our being there might do 
it ; at which they ought not to have been offended, for we came 
in good-will to you all, and have nothing else in us to any of 
you : however it was false imprisonment, I think, upon me, 
for I had not said anything till after I was in custody by thy 
command; and what I then said, could not give just offence 
to any. He blushed, and said, '* He could justify what he had 
done." I replied, he could not by any just law; but that 
what I said was only in friendship, lest at any time hereafter 
he might run himself into a snare, and the country too. 

And then I exhorted them all, not to be averse or ashamed 
to reform, though late, from those things wherein they could 
not justly deny but that they were amiss. And finding my 
antagonist, Davenport, very calm, and in a better mind than 
in the beginning, I took him by the hand, and bid him beware 
for the future how he boasted beforehand over strangers (for 
he had greatly vaunted and insulted us before the people when 
we began this contest, as before, and how he would prove us 
heretics ; and I had advised him not to boast till he had put 
off his armor), and not to follow such little creatures as grass- 
hoppers too far among their hidden places, lest the thick grass 
might entangle his feet, and he fall upon a stone he could not 
see; and added, that I now found a better part in him, and 
was glad it was so. But he was silent, and had not said any- 
thing from the time I had finished my argument, as aforesaid : 
and the invisible power of the divine everlasting truth of 
God being over all, we took them kindly by the hands, and 
they us, with mutual good wishes on both sides ; and so we 



PREDESTINATION. 87 

parted with them in friendship, and in great peace in the Lord, 
to whom be the honor now and forever. 

And as we went along the street from the house, there came 
aside of us a justice of peace, who, smiling, said, '' Gentle- 
men, you have had a whole body of divinity to. encounter 
to-day." I answered, '' that if we had met with more humanity 
upon the whole, it would have been more satisfactory to us :" 
and, walking a little further, another justice on horseback over- 
took us J who, saluting us with respect, said, " he understood 
we were going his way, and if we pleased to stay a little at our 
inn he would call upon us ;" to which we assented : And, at 
our inn, we found some of the people, to whom we further 
improved the text, Isaiah Iv. 1, 2, 3, to the advantage of 
Truth, " that from thenceforth they ought not to pay any more 
for preaching, since they might have the wine of the kingdom, 
and the milk of the Word, without money or price ; but if 
they would have for their teachers, and pay such as sold what 
they call the Word, and would not receive the free grace of 
God, for their teacher, then they would be numbered among 
those who heap to themselves teachers after their own hearts' 
lusts ; having itching ears, ever itching and hearkening after 
" sin term of.life,'' and such other false doctrines as please the 
carnal mind of fallen man : but remember, that both buyers 
and sellers were shut out of the bridegroom's chamber at last. 



88 T. story's conversations, etc. 



CHAPTER XVII. 

KILLINGSWORTH INN, CONNECTICUT— LAND- 
LORD, AND OTHERS. 

1699. 

FEEEDOM FROM SIN. 

From New Haven we went to Killingsworth, about twenty- 
eight miles, and that night at the inn had some dispute with 
our landlord, and the priest of the town's sons, and others, 
concerning freedom from sin in this life ; which we maintained 
against them, by the sixth and eighth chapters to the Romans, 
and first epistle of John, where it is written, " What shall we 
say then ? shall we continue in sin that grace may abound ? 
God forbid : How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer 
therein ? For in that he (Christ) died, he died unto sin once : 
but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon 
ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin ; but alive unto 
God, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Being then made free 
from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. For when 
ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 
But now being made free from sin, and become servants of 
God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting 
life. For the law of the spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, hath 
made me free from the law of sin and death." '' If we say 
we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in 
us. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and 
his word is not in us. If we confess our sins (that is, unto 
the Lord who convinceth us of them), he is faithful and just 
to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteous- 
ness. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we 
have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ 



INSPIRED MINISTRY. 89 

his Son (that is, the Son of God) cleanseth us from all sin. I 
have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and 
the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the 
wicked one. And every man that hath this hope (that is, to 
be like him and see him as he is) purifieth himself, even as he 
is pure. Whosoever abideth in him, sinneth not : Whosoever 
sinneth, hath not seen him, neither known him. He that 
committeth sia is of the Devil ; for the Devil sinneth from the 
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, 
that he might destroy the works of the Devil. Whosoever is 
born of God, doth not commit sin : for his seed (that is the 
word Christ) remaineth in him. And he cannot sin, because 
he is born of God.'' 



CHAPTER XYin. 

A PUBLIC DISCUSSION, WITH JOSEPH KING, 

AIMSBURY. 

1699. 



INSPIRED MINISTRY. 

The next" day, being the first of the sixth month, I had a 
large good meeting at Aimsbury, in the house of one Samuel 
Weed, a friendly man ; and many things were opened, through 
the grace of God, to the satisfaction of the people in general ; 
but some particulars were not pleased because the testimony 
of Truth was against their ways and sentiments ; the priest's 
son, and other opposers, being there. 

But that which occasioned the meeting to be so large, was 

this : There was one Joseph Ring, a bold, confident adversary, 

who from time to time, had challenged Friends, not only in 

those parts, but also travelling Friends, to dispute with him ; 

8^ 



90 T. stoey's conversations, etc. 

but being of no good fame, tliey had generally declined it; 
upon which he had boasted greatly, and had done much hurt 
to some weak persons, who had been at our meetings, and 
under convincement, by perverting the Scriptures, and by un- 
learned questions ; which in their weak state, they could not 
answer : and, about the time we had been in those parts before, 
this Joseph Ring had written the following letter to Jacob 
Moril; a Friend. 

Salisbury, July 17, 1699. ■ 
I having divers times heard and discoursed those people 
called Quakers, and, notwithstanding I have heard many good 
things from them, yet there are some things they do hold which 
I have not received for Truth ; but, on the contrary, do not 
believe to be true ; which I would gladly have cleared up by 
them, at some one of their meetings. To name no more than 
these two : 

1st. That their preachers, as they say, have an infallible 
spirit. 2dly. That Christ doth dwell in them ; and what they 
mean by that, I know not, because some say one thing and 
some another. If you please to give me an opportunity to 
discourse you on these points, it will much oblige me; and 
give me timely notice where. I have long desired this request. 

I am your friend, 

Joseph Ring. 

P. S. Pray communicate thes.e lines to the next preaching 
Quakers, as you have opportunity ; and if they will gratify me 
with a discourse, let it be at your house, and I will attend it, 
having some notice of it beforehand. 

This being about the time we were there before, he had 
wrote it on pretence to have a dispute with us ; and we had 
seen it, and sent him word we were to have a meeting at that 
place on a day certain; and that, if he had anything to object 
after the meeting, we would endeavor to satisfy him ; and 
accordingly he came (as before hinted), but went away before 
the meeting was over. 



INSPIRED MINISTRY. 91 

Now, when I returned to Hampton, as before, the Friends 
told me that this man had greatly boasted, when we were gone, 
that we durst not give him a meeting (and this Friend he had 
writ to had not been long convinced), lest our errors should 
appear to the people; making some lying excuses for his 
abrupt departure out of the meeting aforesaid, and declining 
to discourse us; and so was going on in his former course, 
when he thought we were gone out of the country : There- 
fore they desired me, if I was free, to give him a meeting ; 
for they thought it might be of service; to which, after some 
consideration, I yielded, and sent him word of this meeting to 
be at Aimsbury, before I went to Dover the second time, as 
before related ; so that he had full time to prepare ; and to the 
meeting he came accordingly. 

After the meeting was ended, and before I sat down, I 
inquired if there was one Joseph Ring in the place? He 
started up, seeming to be surprised, and said, Here am I. 
Then I called him into the place where I stood, and he came 
with his hat off, and his hands trembling ; I looked steadily 
upon him, but he could not look upon me; such was the 
enmity of his spirit against the Truth and us. 

Then I asked him, Art thou he that wrote to one of our 
Friends, purporting thy dissatisfaction about some things we 
hold in religion ? He answered, '^ I am." What are thy 
objections ? Upon which he pulled out a paper, and read 
them : " 1st. Your preachers, as you say, have an infallible 
spirit. 2dly. That Christ doth dwell in them : and of these 
things I want to be satisfied. '^ "What satisfaction wouldst 
thou have ? "I would have you demonstrate to me, and prove 
these things to be true, if you can; for I deny them." What 
demonstration or proof wouldst thou have ? "■ From plain 
Scripture ; which I think you cannot do.'^ 

Seeing what spirit I had to deal withal, that he was not a 
conscientious inquirer, but a bitter, perverse, and presumptu- 
ous opposer of the Truth, I then further asked him, Art thou 
a member of any society of people professing Christ ? Art 
thou a Papist, or Episcopalian, or Presbyterian^ Independent, 



92 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

or Baptist, or dost thou represent any of these in what thou 
dost ? ^' No ; but I can hear all these, and the Quakers too, 
and object against anything I like not in any of them." 

But I suspect thou art put upon this by some others, who 
would not be seen in it themselves ; be plain, tell me the truth, 
is it so ? " No ; it is only of myself, to be satisfied." 

Then I put the question to the people : Doth this man 
represent you in this undertaking ? Several of the chief of 
whom replied; ''No; we will not be concerned with him." 
But I still suspect there is a spirit among you that would 
triumph in his victory, if he might have it : And then I pro- 
ceeded thus : I now perceive I have one to deal with who is 
ignorant of Christianity, though as a seeming inquirer; I 
therefore begin with that point of infallibility. People, it is 
necessary, in this case, that you should clearly understand 
what is intended by an infallible spirit; We do not mean 
thereby such a spirit whereby to know what weather it will be 
to-morrow, or the good or ill fortunes of mankind in this world, 
or the like ; but mean only the Spirit of Truth ; that is, the 
Spirit of Christ, who is the Truth, and infallibly discovers sin 
in men, good and evil, right and wrong, in matters of religion ; 
and infallibly leads into all truth, and out of all error, in all 
things respecting our own salvation, as the same is received, 
believed in, and obeyed : And not only so, but those who are 
made ministers of this Spirit, by its powerful working in them, 
may thereby, but not otherwise, infallibly declare the mind of 
God to the people, being themselves perfectly assured by the 
Spirit of the truth of what they deliver ; and yet do not pretend 
to impose their own sense, though infallible to themselves, upon 
any others, but as they also are satisfied of the same truths by 
the same Spirit : and that as sure as men can distinguish, and 
be certain of outward objects, by the eye and light of the sun 
in the firmament of Heaven, so sure men may be in matters 
of a spiritual nature, by the inshining of the light of the Spirit 
of Christ into the understanding. But if mankind will not 
fully believe, follow, and obey, and chastely and attentively 
wait upon the Spirit in their hearts, they may, and do err, 



INSPIRED MINISTRY. 93 

botli in doctrine and practice ; and this is the cause why so 
many and great errors are in the world. And then I turned 
to ray opponent, and queried, Dost thou believe that the Spirit 
of Christ is an infallible Spirit ? 

He answered, Yea. Well, then, since thou hast agreed to 
be determined in these points by the Holy Scriptures, I prove 
the Spirit of Christ is in all Christians : and, first, in his 
ministers : " At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, 
and you in me, and I in you :" and, secondly, in all others : 
'' Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of 
his : and if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin.'^ 
These words, any man, in the text, are indefinite terms, signi- 
fying every man, male and female; I, thou, he, she, they 
(pointing to the people all round), all people. And since thou 
hast confessed this is an infallible" Spirit, and the Scriptures 
say every man hath it, as it is written, ''The manifestation of 
the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal,'^ then thou 
and I both have the Spirit of Christ, or have once had it ; and 
if we are not infallibly led by it in the way of Truth, we have 
not profited ; and it is then our own fault and loss. 

This much weakened him as to that point, for he could not 
get over these Scriptures; yet would have been at another 
argument, which he could not form, for the disorder and con- 
fusion he was in: It was this, "That none who deny the 
ordinances of Christ can be led by the Spirit of Christ : but 
the Quakers deny the ordinances of Christ ; that is, they do 
not baptize with water; therefore are not guided by his Spirit.'' 
But this not being fairly stated by him, but by myself, in 
order to an answer before the people, I presently followed it 
with'this : that what he meant by baptism was sprinkling of 
infants, which Christ never instituted ; therefore we may omit 
it, and yet be led by the Spirit of Christ into that omission, as 
a testimony for him against it : and that at the same rate he 
would unchristian all the people there, and himself too, and 
likewise all who profess Christ at this day throughout the 
world : for none are in the practice of water baptism but a few 
called Baptists ; who only imitate John's baptism as near as 



94 T. story's conversations, etc. 

tliey can, and that by tlieir own assumption and authority, 
without any mission by Christ on that account : And the 
sprinkling of infants I maintained to be only a popish innova- 
tion and institution, and no ordinance of Christ, as I had be- 
fore more fully opened it in the meeting : and added, that we 
do not deny, but believe, that water baptism was commanded 
of Grod to John the Baptist, and practised upon the Jews only, 
as an ordinance of Glod, in its dispensation of time, place, and 
subjects; but that it is superseded, and, in point of obligation, 
ended, by the institution and introduction of Christ's spiritual 
baptism with the Holy Ghost : and there is now remaining in 
the Church of Christ only " one Lord, one faith, and one 
baptism ; for by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, 
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the 
body is not one member, but many. The Church which is his 
body; the fulness of him that filleth all in all :" and therefore 
his imagination, that we could not be led by the Spirit of 
Christ, for omitting sprinkling of infants, is unreasonable, and 
not a just consequence. 

By this time he was weary of his undertaking and silent as 
to any further argument on the first point ; and so we proceed- 
ed to the other, viz., " that Christ dwells in his people." To 
prove the absurdity, as he thought, of this, he brought that 
scripture, where Thomas and the apostles doubting of the 
bodily appearance of Christ after his resurrection, the Lord said 
to them, ^' A spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have." 
''Now, said he, vsince Christ hath flesh and bones, as we have, 
how can he be in every one of you ?" 

Upon this I desired the people to be still, and told them, 
this man's imagination, concerning Christ's being in his people, 
is very gross, carnal, and foolish, and not at all as we under- 
stand it; for we speak of the light and spirit of Christ, in the 
sense mentioned above in the other argument, and not of his 
human body : But as the body of the sun is at a great distance, 
in the open firmament, yet his light and influence shines over 
and afi'ects all the earth, and into many thousands of houses 
and places at the same time ; and in what proportion the light 



INSPIRED MINISTRY. 95 

sliineth into any house, by the same proportion, is the virtue, 
influence, and power of the sun there dispensed : and so, and 
infinitely more, it is with Christ ; whose holy body though far 
remote from us, yet his spirit is everywhere in all hearts; and 
he is ''the word of God, and true light, that lighteth every 
man that cometh into the world. The mystery which hath 
been hid from ages and generations, but now is made manifest 
to his saints, to whom God would make known what is the 
riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles (of 
whose offspring we are), which is, Christ in you, the hope of 
glory/' 

Then, being in a great fret, he turned to the second Epistle 
to Timothy, the third chapter, and read on to the ninth verse 
inclusive, pretending to apply all that Scripture to us ; but I bid 
him read homeward (which the people took notice of, for they 
knew him to be a wicked one, on several accounts), mind those 
words in the text, " boasters, blasphemers, unholy, false accusers, 
fiierce, despisers of those that are good, heady, having a form 
of godliness, but denying the power thereof, ever learning and 
never able to come to the knowledge of the truth," and con- 
sider how far they may relate to thyself; for thou dost not 
well in applying that Scripture to us ; we, through the grace of 
God, are not such : But I will tell thee to whom they belong, 
even to those, who, pretending a call, by tradition from the 
Apostles, to preach to all nations, and yet sit down in towns 
and particular houses and places, and there preach up, "sin 
term of life," for such hire and pay as silly women, and silly 
men too laden with all the sics mentioned in that Scripture, 
will agree to pay them : and in such preachers and hearers is 
that other Scripture fulfilled, where it is written, '' for the time 
will come when they will not endure sound doctrine ; but, 
after their own lusts, shall they heap to themselves teachers, 
having itching ears : and they shall turn away their ears from 
the Truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 

But I have something more to say of Christ's being in men : 
It is no new thing for such perverse men as this to oppose the 
Truth ; and no wonder it falls thus to our lot now, since the 



96 T. story's conversations, etc. 

like objection was moved to the Apostle Paul, and by such too 
as had sinned, seeking a proof of Christ's speaking in him; 
and all the proof he thought fit to give them was, to bid them 
examine themselves whether they were in the faith; "prove 
your own selves : know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus 
Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates V 

My adversary quickly turned to the place, and I bid him 
read it to the people; and faltering much as he read, and 
trembling, I noted to them how blind he was with envy and 
confusion; and then said to him. Now, thou art the man seek- 
ing a proof of Christ's being in us : I shall therefore, since 
thou dost it perversely, treat thee as a vagabond in religion, 
and as one having none at all : Hast thou examined thyself 
on that account ? " Yea/' Hast thou proved thyself ? 
** Yes." What hast thou found ? Then he, perceiving what 
the conclusion was like to be, would have evaded and shuffled : 
No, but, said I, give me a plain and positive answer; hast 
thou found Christ in thee ? But he would not answer. Then 
I observed to the people : He confesseth, you see, that he 
hath examined and proved himself, but dares not say he hath 
found Christ in him ; therefore the text is conclusive upon 
him, he is a '^ reprobate," and as such, I set him aside, as not 
worthy to be talked with any more in matters of Christianity. 
And he said no more, but, soon after, slunk away out of the 
company. This struck an awe upon the people ; for the Lord 
was with me, and was my director, to his own glory; and pre- 
sently came to me a young man, in a consternation, and said, 
'' Ah, sir ! I would not have been before you to-day, as that 
man was, for the whole world." He imagined, I suppose, that 
he was reprobated to all eternity. 

Immediately upon this came another sober young man to 
me, and said, " I have heard what you said this day in the 
meeting; and many things I liked, which you explained 
beyond what I ever heard from any of your persuasion ; but 
one thing I am not satisfied in ; that which you call spiritual, 
I call natural." What is that, said I ? " You said, that which 
reproves sin in mankind is sufficient for salvation, provided it 



INSPIRED MINISTRY. 97 

be believed in, and obeyed; which I cannot receive : For that 
Scripture which you mentioned will be against you; where 
you said, * When the Gentiles, which have not a law, do by 
nature, the things contained in the law ; these having not the 
law, are a law unto themselves ; which show the work of the 
law written in their hearts :' Now," said he, '' that which 
reproves sin the Grentiles had before Christ came, even from 
the beginning : how then can that be the Spirit of Christ, but 
only the law, the same that reproves men now ? It is the 
remains of that righteousness that was in Adam, in his state 
of creation, before he fell." 

I answered, that if he rightly considered that righteousness 
which was in Adam before he fell, it is the same that the 
saints and people of God now have, after they are restored out 
of the fall. The better to understand this, let us observe what 
John the Evangelist saith concerning Christ the word of God : 
*' In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with 
God, and the Word was God. In him was life, and the life 
was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness, 
and the darkness comprehended it not. That was the true 
light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 
And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (and we be- 
held his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), 
full of Grace and Truth ; And of his fulness have all we re- 
ceived, and Grace for Grace. For the law was given by Moses, 
but Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ." 

The word, wisdom, and power of God therefore, clothed and 
veiled with a reasonable soul, and human flesh, is Jesus Christ, 
born into this world by the blessed Virgin Mary : This word 
is the righteousness of God, which was light and wisdom in 
Adam before he fell ; and by whom God judged and con- 
demned Adam for sin, in disobeying and departing from this 
word, light, and life, through unbelief and actual transgression : 
It was by the light and life of this word, that God, the Father 
of all, strove with the old world to reclaim them, as by a law 
written in them, and against which they likewise rebelled : 
whereby the Almighty was provoked at length to destroy them 
9 



98 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

bj the flood, save righteous Noah (who had not offended) and 
his family. 

And, after the flood, the same law of light and life was still 
with and in the posterity of Noah and his family, by which 
they had the knowledge of God, of the creation, and of moral 
righteousness; and to which, being obedient, they were ruled 
and governed thereby for a time : It was by this divine nature 
in their hearts, and not by their own fallen and corrupt nature, 
that they did the things contained in the moral law ; but, by 
degrees they likewise degenerated, as the old world did, and 
departed from the law of light, which gave them that know- 
ledge ; ^^ Because, that when they knew God they glorified 
him not as God; neither were thankful, but became vain 
in their imaginations, and (departing from that light) their 
foolish hearts were darkened ; and they became darkness/' 

And, departing from the wisdom of this divine word, they 
became fools, and vile idolaters; and therefore God departed 
from them, " and gave them up to their own hearts' lusts, and 
to believe and follow lies, and vile affections. And even as 
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave 
them up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not 
convenient ; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, 
wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, 
debate, deceit, malignity, whisperers, backbiters, haters of 
God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, dis- 
obedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, 
without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful." And though 
they knew at the same time, by that law of light, that the 
judgment of God was against them for these things; yet they 
did them, and took pleasure one in another therein : and there- 
fore God left them under the power of their own sins, in this 
miserable state for many ages. 

And, in the mean time, God made choice of Abraham and 
his posterity, in whom to restore this law of light and life : 
For the children of Israel being in bondage, and a state of 
slavery in Egypt, were also degenerated, and become trans- 
gressors ; and therefore G od added the law of moral righteous- 



INSPIRED MINISTRY. 99 

ness, by tbe mediatioa of Moses, his servant, written on tables 
of stone, by the finger of God; which, for the transgressions 
of the people, were broken by the mediator of that law, on the 
side of the mountain before which they were : But the mercy 
of Grod returned unto them, and he commanded Moses to pre- 
pare other tables of stone, on which to write the same law : 
which thing, though matter of fact, is also an allegory : For 
the law of light and life, being written in the hearts of men 
from the beginning, was broken and blotted out by their sins ; 
but the Most High, in love and mercy to lost and degenerate 
mankind, provided a more excellent mediator than Moses, and 
of a better and more powerful law ; which I may farther speak 
of in the sequel ; And though this law was given by Moses, 
by the command of Grod, and the people received it as reason- 
able and good; yet, being inwardly departed from the light 
and life of the divine word, that outward law could not give 
them life, but condemnation ; for they could not keep it in 
the state they were in ; and therefore the Almighty, in justice 
and mercy, restored to them a manifestation of the same word, 
and light, and life in him. This is the eternal word and com- 
mandment of Grod preached by Moses in that day unto Israel 
in the wilderness, of whom he saith, '' This commandment 
which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee ; 
neither is it far off : It is not in heaven, that thou shouldst 
say, who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, 
that we may hear it and do it ? Neither is it beyond the sea, 
that thou shouldst say, who shall go over the sea for us, and 
bring it unto us, that we may hear it and do it ? But the 
word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, 
that thou mayst do it." 

In this manner was Christ preached by Moses many ages 
before he came in the flesh ; and after he did so come, was 
preached in the same way by the Apostle Paul ; for the same 
that Moses preached as the commandment and the word, the 
apostle calleth Christ, and the word of faith which they 
preached j and which they knew no more after the flesh, after 
they had thoroughly preached him come in the flesh, but con- 



100 T. story's conversationSj etc. 

seqiiently as he is the "word of God, light of the world, 
divine Truth, and quickening Spirit." 

And again : " All Israel did eat the same spiritual meat, 
and did all drink the same spiritual drink" (for they drank of 
that spiritual rook that followed them, and that Eock was 
Christ) : and this is also the same of which he speaketh, where 
he saith, " Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give 
him shall never thirst ; but the water that I shall give him, 
shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting 
lue. 

And to make this necessary point yet plainer, observe, '' In 
the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and eried, 
saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 
He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of 
his belly shall flow rivers of living water. But this spake he 
of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive : 
for the Holy Ghost was not yet given, because that Jesus was 
not yet glorified." 

But the Jews also rebelled against the light, Spirit, and 
word of God, so preached unto them by Moses aforesaid; and 
therefore the law without could not save them : yet the right- 
eous and most merciful Creator did not forsake them for ever, 
but opened a door of hope, by his gracious promises afore- 
hand, that they might believe and obey when they came to 
pass ; and therefore saith, " Behold, the days come, saith the 
Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of 
Israel, and with the house of Judah ; but this shall be the 
covenant, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it 
in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my 
people.'^ Again : " I will put my fear in their hearts, that 
they shall not depart from me.^' 

And the Almighty, of his superabounding mercy and kind- 
ness, remembered likewise the apostate and benighted Gen- 
tiles, promising unto them also the same law and covenant of 
light, by the same Mediator : " I the Lord have called thee in 
righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, 
and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the 



INSPIRED MINISTRY. 101 

Gentiles. And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldst 
be mj servant, to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore 
the preserved of Israel ; I will also give thee for a light to the 
Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the ends of 
the earth." 

Now, this covenant, and the messenger thereof, is the same, 
whom the Most High describes aforehand ; '^ to the Jew first, 
and also to the Gentile.'' To the Jew he saith, '^ therefore 
the Lord himself shall give you a sign ; behold, a virgin shall 
conceive, and bear a Son, and shall call his name Immanuel.'' 
And to both Jews and Gentiles he saith, " Behold my ser- 
vant whom I uphold, mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth. 
I have put my Spirit upon him, he shall bring forth judgment 
to the Gentiles.'' This is he, of whom it was said, seven hun- 
dred and forty years before. he came, " Unto us a child is born, 
unto us a Son is given, and the government shall be upon his 
shoulders." This is he who spake unto the Father in spirit, 
saying, " Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not; but a body 
hast thou prepared me." This is he who received that holy 
body of human flesh, with a reasonable soul, the complete 
nature of man. This is the Lord Jesus Christ, born of the 
Virgin Mary ; who, by command of the Father, wrought all 
those wonders attributed to him in the Holy Scriptures. 

This is he who offered himself upon the cross, at Jerusalem 
of old, a propitiation for the sins of the whole world. This is 
the light of the Gentiles, in whom they are to believe and 
trust : the Mediator of the new covenant, not of works, but 
of light and life from God; not that which is natural, but 
eternal. This is the true witness of God; the finger and 
power of God, by which he writeth and restoreth the law of 
righteousness ; the law of the Spirit of life, which makes free 
from the law of sin and death ; and which the law without, 
given by Moses, could not do. This is the law and word of 
life that was in Adam before he fell. 

This is the divine, immortal, and unchangeable Truth of 
God, which " reproves the world of sin, of righteousness, 
and of judgment;" that reproves and manifests sin in all 
9* 



102 T. story's conversations, etc. 

maDkind : And, for want of faith, love, and obedience to this 
divine law, light, and word of God, the faithless and disobe- 
dient world remains in condemnation by that word : for till 
they do so, both Jews and G-entiles remain, and are concluded 
under sin : As saith the Son of God, '' He that believeth on 
him is not condemned ; but he that believeth not is condemned 
already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only- 
begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that 
light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather 
than light, because their deeds were evil. He that believeth 
on the Son hath everlasting life ; and he that believeth not the 
Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on 
him.'' 

And as the mystery of iniquity began to work in the days 
of the apostles, so there were many antichrists, even then in 
the world ; which were neither Jews nor Heathens, but pro- 
fessors of the name of the true God, and of Jesus Christ, the 
Son of God and Saviour of the world; and they went out 
from the apostles, and their doctrine, and from the teaching 
of the grace and Spirit of God ; the holy anointing which 
teacheth all things : They turned their ears from the truth, 
and gave ear to fables ; heaping to themselves teachers after 
their heart's lusts, having itching ears : They went back under 
the law of types, which was ended by the law of liberty, 
throu2;h Christ Jesus our Lord. 

And, as great is the mystery of iniquity, it hath so wrought 
in the Christian world, that the same that is so called, is de- 
generated as the old world, and as the old Gentiles, the heathen 
and apostate Jews, and become antichristian, and in utter dark- 
ness and confusion : They once, in the days of old, spake one 
language, from the one word and voice of God, speaking 
divine wisdom, and the knowledge of the one true God, and 
of Jesus Christ the Son of God, in every living soul ; but by 
their apostacy from the divine light and Spirit of God, and 
from his wisdom, grace, and power, they followed their own 
spirit and wisdom, which is darkness, into many evil inven- 
tions; and multiplied their superstitions, and became misera- 



INSPIRED MINISTRY. 103 

ble idolaters, worshipping a piece of bread for their God, and 
wallowing in all the sins of the Gentiles and Heathens of old : 
So that their language, as at Babel, is confounded, and they 
are uo more one, but scattered, and shall unite no more, till 
they return by him from whom they are fallen ; to the cove- 
nant of God, even that true light of his Son, ''which lighteth 
every man that cometh into the world/' of whose fulness, all 
those who now believe in him, and behold his glory, as of the 
only and first-begotten Son of God, have now received, as they 
did of old, and grace for grace. " And this grace bringeth 
salvation, and hath appeared to all men ; teaching us, that 
denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, 
righteously, and godly in this present world. By this grace 
we are saved, through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is the 
gift of God." From all which proofs it is plain that the same 
that reproves sin in man is the Spirit of Christ, the Word of 
God ; which in the beginning was the light of men ; and it is 
not natural but spiritual, and the mystery that lay hid in the 
Gentiles from the foundation of the world, though they were 
darkness, and this light had not been comprehended by them. 
During the time that passed on these subjects, the people were 
very sober; and the young man being deeply under the effects 
of a wrong education and tradition, replied, " That faith in 
this light cannot be sufficient; for, except a man be born 
again, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven." 

That is true; but seeing we must be born again, we cannot 
do that of ourselves : there is none can do it for us but God : 
and he doth that great work by the word of his wisdom and 
power, which is Christ, the light of the intellectual world ; the 
Sun of righteousness and glorious luminary of the mind : and 
we are to believe in him, that we may be born again of him, 
who is the second Adam, the Lord from Heaven, the quicken- 
ing Spirit; as it is written, " While ye have light, believe in the 
light, that ye may be children of the light. And if children, 
then heirs, heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ." But 
it reasonably followeth, that if no faith in this divine light, 
then no children of God through him who is that light and 



104 T. story's conversations, etc. 

elect seed of God ; and if not children, then not heirs of God, 
nor of his promises ; which are all unto this divine seed, and 
all true in him : And if we do not believe in the word of God, 
we cannot please him, nor be created anew unto good works 
by him ; which are indispensable to every child of God, as the 
evidence of that faith, and work of regeneration in the mind ; 
"and to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually 
minded is life and peace, through Jesus Christ our Lord/' 

Christ testifieth of himself that he is '^ the light of the 
world,'' and the apostles of Christ were sent by him, to testify 
that God is light, and to turn mankind " from darkness to that 
light ; from the power of Satan unto God :" from that darkness 
and ignorance which had covered the earth, and from that 
gross darkness which had covered the people, unto the Son of 
God, and unto the Father by him. 

So, then, in order to our being born from above, there must 
first be faith in Christ, as he is the divine light, and second 
covenant of God : And the first work of this light in man, 
toward that faith, is the manifestation, reproof, and condemna- 
tion of sin in the heart, mind, and understanding of man: 
" For all things that are reproved are made manifest by the 
light ; for (after the manner of men) whatsoever doth make 
manifest is light." 

Thus the testimony of the Holy Scriptures concur clearly to 
the proof of this most needful doctrine, that the reprover of 
sin, in the mind and understanding of man, is not man him- 
self; neither is it the evil one, who tempts man to sin ; for 
then he would be both tempter and reprover, and divided 
against himself ; and even that way his kingdom and power 
could not stand : But it is the divine light and Spirit of 
Christ, that sin maybe manifested, reproved, become exceeding 
sinful, and condemned; and, through faith in the manifester 
and reprover, be forsaken, pardoned, remitted, and, by the 
work of the Holy Spirit of Christ, fully removed, and the 
minds of mankind purified, and made lucid as the day, and 
formed into light in the Lord. 

In the conclusion of this, I felt the weight removed from 



INSPIRED MINISTRY. 105 

off my spirit, and the love and goodness of Truth to arise 
toward the young man; and he took me kindly by the hand, 
and said, '' he had other points to have discoursed, but would 
now leave them.'' But I believe the main objection was 
removed, and the mark hit ; for he departed cheerful : and 
some others also, who seemed to have had something to say, 
when they had heard these things, were silent; and all ended 
in peace, to the glory of the Lord ; whose service and honor, 
and common good of mankind, through the grace of God, we 
only aim at in all these things. 

The meeting being over, there came a woman (being intro- 
duced by some women Friends), and told me '^ she was much 
troubled with a spirit of blasphemy, which often uttered in 
her blasphemies against God ; and that she was vexed with it, 
and abhorred herself because thereof; though she no way, in 
her desires, assented thereto.*' I replied, that the Lord often 
suffered such to be tempted, in whom he purposed to make 
known his power ; but it is no sin to be tempted, for Christ 
was tempted, and yet without sin ; but Satan's end in these 
great blasphemies (which were of his own uttering in her 
imagination) was this, that when he had wearied and weakened 
her, he would try to make her believe she had sinned against 
God, and so bring her to despair; but I exhorted her to be 
still, resist him in faith toward Christ, and not join with him, 
and he would fly and vanish ; and she went away easy. 



106 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC, 



CHAPTER XIX. 
ABRAHAM PARKER, KILLINaSWORTH. 

1699. 

SINLESS STATE IN THIS LIFE. 

The next day we went on to Killingswortli ; where I and 
my companion had had .some discourse with some persons as 
we went into New England, and were scarce now alighted till 
our landlord began to tell us, " That he had reported to their 
minister what had then been discoursed ; and that he inclined 
to confer with us on the same things, if we should happen to 
return that way; and asked if we were willing to go speak 
with him on that account ?" 

We gave our landlord this answer, that we were then weary; 
but if their minister would call his people together in the 
morning, to their meeting-house, we would there meet him at 
the ninth hour : which, when he heard, he began to flag, and 
said, " he would not send him that word, unless we would 
write it." And accordingly I wrote to their minister thus, viz. : 

Killingsworth, 21st Six Month, 1699. 
Friend Abraham Pearson : 

Forasmuch as some of us, the people called, in scorn, 
Quakers, passing this way some time ago, and lodging at the 
Sign of the Hart here in Killingsworth, the landlord, with 
other persons, perceiving what we were, moved some discourse 
concerning certain points respecting the Christian religion ; 
viz., freedom from sin in this life, and baptism ; and they not 
being able, as we thought, to resist the Scriptures and argu- 
ments we urged against them, in defence of what we hold 
therein, I think our landlord, if not also some of the rest, told 



SINLESS STATE IN THIS LIFE. 107 

US, that though they could not, yet their minister (meaning 
thyself) was able to confute the errors, as they called them, 
which we hold therein : Whereupon we, or one of us, replied, 
that if their minister would convene his people, or a competent 
number of the more discreet of them, we would meet him, to 
hear and answer his arguments against us in those points 
wherein we differ from him and them : And we, returning this 
way this evening, lodge at the same inn, and are willing to 
defend the principles and doctrines we hold, and to meet thee 
to-morrow morning, about the ninth hour, at thy meeting- 
house, provided thy sober neighbors and people be there con- 
vened : In the meantime desiring thy speedy answer, we 
remain thy loving Friends. Signed, on behalf of myself and 
the other two, by 

Tho. Story. 

This being sent him, he returned this verbal answer : " That 
we should be welcome to his house, or he would come to our 
inn ) but thought the meeting-house not convenient :'' And, 
in the morning, about the eighth hour, came to our quarters ; 
and being seated in a chair when we were absent, I, coming 
in before my companion, sat down by him ; and after inter- 
change of some civilities, in our different ways of expression, 
and a pause of silence, he took out the letter, and began to 
move about the contents of it; viz., "Freedom from sin in 
this life, and baptism/' the points proposed to be conferred 
upon. 

In the first place I asked him a previous question, viz., 
Whether he appeared there as a minister of Christ, or only as 
a minister to a particular people there ? But, perceiving I 
would put him upon his proof if he came as a minister of 
Christ, he evaded that, and moved the other, about a sinless 
state in this life; and, in the mean time, came in Samuel 
Jennings and my companion Roger Grill, the Presbyterian 
minister, having several of his hearers with him ; and all the 
people in those parts were generally of that sect : Then I 



108 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

moved for a state of the first question in writing, wliicli was 
settled tlius : 

^^ Whether it be an error, from the doctrine of Christ and 
his apostles, to believe that mankind may be free from sin, 
whilst living in this world, or on this side the grave V 

" Abraham Pearson assumes to prove, it is an error, from 
the doctrine of Christ and his apostles, to believe that man 
may be free from sin whilst living in this world, or on this 
side the grave." 

The first question, thus stated and agreed upon, he began 
his proof after this manner : ^' That which God hath not, at 
any time, promised unto man, we have no ground to believe 
is attainable by man ; but God hath not, at any time, promised 
that man shall be free from sin in this life, therefore we ought 
not to look for it." 

I replied. Friend, thou art to prove thy affirmative assump- 
tion in the first place, viz.. That it is an error, from the doc- 
trine of Christ and his apostles, to believe that man can be 
free from sin whilst living in this world, or on this side of the 
grave; and here thou only offers a subtility to evade it, viz., 
that God hath not, at any time, promised that men shall be 
free from sin in this life : The question is not what God hath 
promised or not promised ; but whether it be an error, from 
the doctrine of Christ and his apostles, to believe that man- 
kind can be free from sin in this life, or on this side the 
grave ? And thou hast assumed upon thyself to prove, that 
it is such an error so to believe ] which thy other assertion, 
viz.. That God hath not so promised, &c., doth not at all 
prove. 

^' No," said he, " but you shall not draw me from my argu- 
ment, and run away to other things, as your manner is ; I will 
hold to my point, till you prove that ever God promised to 
,make men free from sin in this life." 

I returned, that I am not going from any point in question ; 
nor have I said that God never promised so : but thou hast 
assumed, in the first place, to prove it is an error to believe 
as in the state of the question ; and now, in the second place, 



SINLESS STATE IN THIS LIFE. 109 

asserted negatively, that God never promised sucli a freedom. 
I insist therefore upon thy proof of thy assumption in the 
state of the question, and of thy assertion that Grod never so 
promised : for thy asserting the same thing twice over in dif- 
ferent terms, is no proof; so that thou art still to be held to 
thy first point. 

The people all this time were very silent, and Truth over 
them ; and here I held their minister, his own people not 
looking upon what he had said to be any proof of what he had 
undertaken ; as it was no other than a subtle invention to ex- 
clude the plain testimony of Holy Scripture in the case. 

Then Samuel Jennings said, " That the greatest promise 
God ever made to mankind, was to send his Son Christ, who 
had preached perfection to the people, ' Be ye perfect, even 
as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.' Therefore we 
have ground to expect it/' 

But the priest having assumed upon himself to prove, as in 
the state of the question, I insisted upon his proof, not think- 
ing it proper yet to offer proof on our side ; and my companion, 
in the mean time, called out " keep him to the first point." 

Then he brought forth his Scriptures for " sin term of life,'' 
viz., ''for there is not a just man upon the earth that doth 
good and sinneth not." 

I answered. This was writ in the time of the law, and must 
intend a legal justice, as ^' by the works of the law shall no 
flesh be justified :" But to be evangelically just is another 
thing ; they are sanctified through faith in Christ Jesus, and 
by him also they are justified and saved from their sins, 
" by the washing of regeneration,- and renewing of the Holy 
Ghost." 

Then he advanced their common plea for "sin term of 
life," as being wrote in the time of the Gospel, viz., "If we 
say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is 
not in us," and there he stopped, being rather willing to stop 
the mouth of Truth, than that his false doctrine should be 
exposed, and the strongholds of sin and Satan pulled down, 
and demolished. 
10 



110 T. story's conversations, etc. 

I replied, That the apostle began there with men in their 
natural state, as children of the first Adam, and saith, '^ If we 
say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not 
in us. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and 
his word is not in us.'' But though we have sinned, must 
we continue therein ? No ; for " if we confess our sins (to 
him who convinceth us of them in our hearts), he is faithful 
and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all un- 
righteousness. And if we walk in the light, as he is in the 
light (that is, in God, verse 5), we have fellowship one with 
another, and the blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God 
cleanseth us from all sin. And he that sayeth he abideth in 
him, ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked;" 
which cannot be in sin : for he never sinned, nor was ever 
any sin in him : and he is " separated from sinners." The 
sins of the little children are forgiven for his name's sake. 
The Fathers have known him who is from the beginning: and 
the young men are strong, and the word of God abideth in 
them, and they have overcome the wicked one. Whosoever 
abideth in him sinneth not ; whosoever sinneth hath not seen 
him, neither known him. He that committeth sin is of the 
devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this 
purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy 
the works of the devil. 

*' Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom 
of God : And whosoever is born of God, doth not commit sin ; 
for his seed (the word of God) remaineth in him, and he can- 
not sin, because he is born of God. And as he is, so are we 
in this world;" and if so, then not in sin. 

Again, the Apostle Paul, in his Epistle to the Romans, 
preacheth the same doctrine : he first proves both Jews and 
Gentiles all under sin once (and if they had not sinned, there 
had not been any need of a Saviour to save them from their 
sins) ; and then preacheth salvation, both to Jews and Gen- 
tiles, by Christ, and freedom from sin, by him, even in this 
life ; where he saith, " What shall we say then ? Shall we 
continue in sin, that grace may abound ? God forbid : How 



SINLESS STATE IN THIS LIFE. Ill 

shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein ? Being 
then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteous- 
ness; for when ye were servants of sin, ye were free from 
righteousness, but now being made free from sin, and become 
servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end 
everlasting life : But if we go on in sin, we shall die in our 
sins ; and if we die in our sins, whither he is gone we cannot 
come. But the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, saith 
the apostle, personating every true member of the Church of 
Christ, " hath made me free from the law of sin and death.'' 
A glorious liberty indeed 1 

Then said the priest, but most perversely, as an enemy of 
all righteousness, " Yea, that is true ; we are to be made free 
from sin, but not in this life." Then Samuel Jenings asked 
the priest, since he had acknowledged a freedom from sin, but 
not in this life, '^ When, where, and how must it be effected, 
since no unclean thing can enter the kingdom ?" 

To which he replied, ''We are drove to a necessity to con- 
fess, it is not done in heaven; and in this life it cannot be : 
Therefore it must be at the very point of death, as the soul 
departeth from the body.'' 

Well, then, said I, let us see thee split a hair, and show 
what distance there is between the utmost point of time, and 
the beginning of eternity: for if done in the last point of time, 
it is in this life ; and if not till its entrance into eternity, then 
the unclean thing enters the kingdom; which is already 
granted cannot be. Where then is this freedom ? Which 
question Samuel Jenings pressing upon him, he then affirmed? 
" The soul is cleansed from sin in its way between earth and 
heaven; for there is, (said he) a considerable space between." 

Then said Samuel Jenings, "This is such a little Presby- 
terian purgatory, as I never heard of before." And though 
the preacher had hitherto seemed to have command of his 
passion ; yet upon this he grew very angry : For we then 
exposed him to his own people. 

If the soul were freed from sin after it departs from the 
body, in its ascending from earth to heaven (speaking in an 



112 T. story's conversations, etc. 

outward sense, according to his apprehension), it is still in 
time, and on this side the grave ; unless he can demonstrate, 
that the body is always interred before the soul is fully 
ascended ; and if the soul be fully entered into heaven before 
the body be interred, then there is a freedom from sin on this 
side the grave : But this only to the man in his own way. 

Being reduced to this condition before his people, he then 
began to accuse us falsely : That we came from Borne, &c. 
Upon which, and having all along observed his false glosses, 
evasions, false covers, and perversions of Scripture, together 
with his false accusations before the people, I returned the 
accusation upon him as a lie; and that raised, or rather 
brought forth, the pre- conceived wrath of some of his hearers, 
and they gave us ill and threatening language: but we being 
over them in the Truth, I insisted that it is the language of 
Truth to call all things by their proper names, and according 
to their nature ; and that which in itself is a lie, Truth cannot 
call it otherwise : And that if it were harsh and unmannerly, 
in their sense, to turn his false accusation upon him as a lie, 
what could they think of him who was the author of it, since 
the insinuation, and what was couched under it, touched our 
lives, if it had been true ? And so we stood over them in the 
dominion of Truth, as to the point discussed ; but as to the 
other, of Baptism, it was not much entered upon ; For they 
grew so angry, that one of them said to Samuel Jenings, '' he 
deserved to have his head broke with his own cane;" the 
man, at the same time, having a naked knife in his hand. 

Samuel replied, ^* they had been formerly at greater mis- 
chief than that (meaning the hanging of our Friends in New 
England), and he perceived they wanted no will for as bad at 
this day." 

The old priest having his members now pretty well fitted 
to his evil purpose, began to keckle and laugh ; and setting 
his rustics to mock us, said, he would tell us a story of a 
merchant in London ; intending thereby to raise levity, and so 
take off all sense of what had been said (for there were several 
of the people very sober and attentive all the time) : But I 



SINLESS STATE IN THIS LIFE. 113 

sharply reproved him, and said, that he manifested himself, to 
all that had eyes, in a thing ill becoming his gray hairs, and 
much worse, his profession, and least of all the matter in hand, 
touching the everlasting life or death of mankind : and so 
utterly suppressed his jest, and crushed it as a cockatrice in 
the shell ; and then summed up the whole matter in short and 
noted to the people, that touching this point he had under- 
taken to prove, viz., to believe freedom from sin in this life, 
to be inconsistent with the doctrine of Christ and his apostles, 
he could not ; and we had adduced several plain, applicable, 
and unanswerable texts of Scripture, proving that freedom 
from sin in this life, is the doctrine of Christ and his apostles, 
and had left the Truth over his head. 

By this time it was about mid-day; and we were willing 
to depart, and our antagonist as desirous we should; for he 
sweated much and often sighed deeply; which gave me occa- 
sion to think he argued against his own understanding : Yet 
we had a short touch on Baptism, or rather rantism ; for I held 
him to sprinkling infants ; which though no baptism, yet being 
their practice instead of baptism, they must be determined by 
it : and accordingly I informed the people in short, that they 
were, and are, all wrong about baptism, both as to manner and 
subject; the manner being a washing in water (not sprinkling 
with water), by wading into it, or being immerged therein, or 
dipped all over; and the subjects were adult persons, capable 
of believing and being taught in the mysteries of religion, 
which infants are not; that the whole ceremony is extra scrip- 
tural, and only a Popish invention and relicts, and presump- 
tuous imposition of Antichrist : and so we left them. 

In the mean time came the priest, his wife, several justices 
of the peace, two lawyers, and many people ; who rushing in, 
it occasioned some unsettledness in the meeting, and altered the 
state of it, so that the people were not, for some time, in a 
condition to hear with attention ; and therefore I stood a little 
while silent, finding the operation of the word of Truth to 
abate, as to that matter. After which I exhorted them to be still 
not only as to their bodies, but also their minds, that haply they 
10* 



114 T. story's conversations, etc. 

might reap some advantage by what they might hear: and then 
I began to recount, in short, what points I had gone through 
before they came, to the end they might perceive the entire 
scope of my testimony : And then the power of Truth began 
again to work, and therein I quickly came over both priest 
and people in myself; and the people were generally sober and 
attentive, which made the priest very uneasy : And at length 
as I came to treat of baptism, he fell into a passion, and 
interrupted me; but I kept my authority and matter, and 
went on. 

That which seemed to touch him most, was about sprinkling 
of infants, when I told the people it is extra scriptural, an 
antichristian and Popish innovation, he then fired upon me 
with an objection; but I bid him be silent, for our meeting 
was not ended ; and he forbare till I had done : and then Aaron 
Atkinson concluded the meeting in prayer; upon which the 
priest and justices went out. 

The meeting being ended, they came in again, and the priest 
was big with his objection, which he had conceived from a 
mistake of a text of Scripture. It was thus : ^' You," said he, 
^' have spoken much against water baptism, as if it were not 
obligatory at this day; but the Scripture saith, ' Unless a man 
be baptized with water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot see the 
kingdom of God.' '^ 

I passed by his mistake for the present in misrendering 
that Scripture, and said, There is no necessity to believe, that 
the Lord Jesus spake then of elementary water; but as there 
is a twofold operation of the Holy Spirit, the one compared to 
water, which is for the washing away of the pollution of sins 
past before conviction, and the other to fire, for destroying the 
root of it in us ; as it is prophesied of Christ, " He is like a 
refiner's fire, and fuller's soap ; and he shall sit as a refiner 
and purifier of silver, and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and 
purge them as gold and silver," &o. Again, the baptism of 
Christ makes thorough work ; for his fan is in his hand, and 
he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather the wheat into 
the garner; but he will burn up the chafi" with unquenchable 



SINLESS STATE IN THIS LIFE. 115 

fire." And in another place it is written, that Christ said, 
" He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out 
of his belly shall flow rivers of living water : but this spake 
he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should 
receive," &c. 

The Spirit of Christ is thus compared both to water and fire, 
and their diflferent effects and operations, to express the bap- 
tism of Christ and work of regeneration, as begun, carried on, 
and perfected by him : and it is also written, " By one Spirit 
are we all baptized into one body, and have been all made to 
drink into one Spirit." 

Then I asked the priest, that since the Spirit of Christ is 
thus compared to fire as well as water, why he did not think 
elementary fire was to be used in baptism as well as water ? 
To which he was silent. 

I havino; entered thus far into the argument for the sake of 
the people, Aaron Atkinson told them, ^' there was no such 
Scripture as their priest had alleged ; for it is, " Except a man 
be born of water, and of the Spirit," and not " baptized with 
water and the Spirit ;" which the priest could not deny ; and 
then the people saw him wrong. 

The priest being foiled in this, he recurred to the text in 
Matthew, " Go ye, therefore, and teach all nations^ baptizing 
them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the 
Holy Ghost ;" and alleged from hence, '' that these words, ' Go 
teach all nations, baptizing them/ &c., show that teaching and 
baptizing is one act." 

Thou sayest well, said I ; we have all along maintained that 
against our adversaries; why, then, dost thou oppose us? for 
if teaching and baptizing be the same act in the sense of that 
text, water baptism, as to any command from thence, is ex- 
cluded. He then saw his mistake, and was ashamed; and 
many of his people were so too, and went out of the room. 

At length he pulled a book out of his bosom, and would have 
shown us what his author had said about baptism : He was 
not willing to show the title or the author's name, but I per- 
ceived it was the " Snake in the Grass ;" and then I exposed 



116 T. story's conversations, etc. 

it as a very false piece, and Charles Lesly, the author, as a 
forger; and that his book had been fully answered, and. his 
arguments repelled by one of our Friends, Joseph Wyeths. 
And then I advised the priest to be baptized himself, if he 
thought water baptism was necessary, or else he had no right 
to dispute about it; for sprinkling is not baptism. 

To this he replied, " that though they did not use washing 
in water, but sprinkling, that ought not to be alleged as a 
ground for us to reject the whole. ^' 

I answered, we have sufficient authority without that, to 
decline all water baptism, as no ordinance of Christ; but it 
must needs be very perverse in any to contend with others for 
a necessity of anything in religion, which themselves will not 
practise. By this time most of the people were gone out; and 
after some more discourse about tithes, and such preachers, 
as, in times past, preached for pieces of bread and handfuls 
of barley, as some now for money, some for corn, and some for 
tobacco, we all went out of the house ; and I then exhorted 
the priest to give way to the manifestation of truth in his own 
conscience, and it would lead him out of all error and evil 
thiogs; and so we parted in a friendly manner. A justice of 
peace and a lawyer stayed longer, and we had some more dis- 
course with them on some other points : We informed them 
further concerning our principles, and particularly of our sen- 
timents concerning human government : Of our loyalty and 
inoiFensive demeanor under all governments, in any form, giv- 
ing always either active or passive obedience; and that where 
the former could not be yielded, when anything contrary to our 
religion and consciences, and duty to God, was commanded or 
required by any law, then the latter was never a-wanting, nor 
refused, though to the loss of all. 

Upon this an attorney-at-law asserted '^ that all men were 
bound in conscience to give active obedience to all laws made 
by the legislature of any government where they lived," but 
offered no reason for his opinion. 

I answered, that accordiog to this, all the faithful primitives 
were wrong, who never complied with the laws of the heathens 



THE SACRAMENTS. 117 

made against tlicm and their religion ; but sufifered cruel 
deaths in confessing the true God, and the Lord Jesus, espe- 
cially under the two emperors, in the tenth general persecu- 
tion ; and thereby he condemned all the Protestants, and others, 
as worthy of those punishments inflicted upon them by Papists, 
on account of their religious sentiments, being contrary to their 
national and ecclesiastical laws ; to which those sufferers could 
not, because of their known duty to God and Christ, give any 
active, but only passive obedience and non-resistance, though 
inflicted by force of the statute " de heretico comburendo," 
whereby many of the people of the nation, who were then of 
the same religion of the present National Church, were de- 
stroyed : And if they ought to have given active obedience to 
that, and such other persecuting laws, then their blood was 
upon their own heads, being justly shed for their disobedience; 
which would be a very severe and unchristian opinion, and 
therefore to be rejected; and being attended with such con- 
sequences, thou would do well to lay it aside and entertain it 
no more. 



CHAPTER XX. 
SEXTON, STONINGTON, 

1704. 



THE SACRAMENTS. 

On the 25th of the First month, 1704, we set forward, and, 
that night, lodged at one Sexton's, at Stonington, and in the 
evening he began some discourse about their sacraments, ask- 
ing our reasons for the disuse of them; upon which I gave 
him several, viz. : The bread and cup being incidents of the 
Jewish passover, and typical of Christ himself, who is the 



118 T. story's conversations, etc. 

Antitype, and tlie true living bread which comes down from 
heaven, as soon as men experience him to be so in their hearts, 
all obligations cease as to our continuance any longer in the 
figure, as it is written, '^ As often as ye eat this bread, and 
drink this cup, ye show the Lord's death till he come." 

Now, the question arises. What is meant by his coming? 
We understand it of his second, inward, or spiritual coming, 
without sin unto salvation, in all them who believe and wait 
for him, in all ages : And this, we, through the goodness and 
mercy of God, do experience to be true, that he is come in 
that blessed and saving manner in us ; and therefore the obli- 
gation of the use of the bread and cup, the sense in which yc 
now use it, being at an end to us, we disuse it : And, more- 
over, as it was the Jews' Passover, never incumbent on us the 
Gentiles, and fulfilled by Christ, it is not obligatory upon -us. 
And besides, as the apostle saith, " as often as ye eat this 
bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he 
come :" Seeing then all those who continue in these shadows, 
are only showing forth his death until he come, they bear wit- 
ness against themselves, that they are yet dead unto him, and 
that he is not yet so come unto them, unto this day; and being 
ignorant of his life, they are not risen with him, but are yet 
in their sins, and in a state of death. Besides, we do not find 
that this was a command to all the disciples of Christ at that 
time, or that any more were then with him but the twelve 
apostles ; much less can it be supposed extensive to all who 
should come to be his disciples afterwards. 

And as it was the last passover, and fulfilled by him, when 
he gave them the cup, he said, " Take this and divide it 
among yourselves;" but did not command them to give it, or 
the bread, to others. And further, as the Apostle Paul was 
a true minister of Christ, to all necessary intents, not one whit 
behind the chief of the apostles, and yet was not sent by 
Christ to baptize with water, but to preach the Gospel ; so 
likewise, though we, in our day, have a dispensation of the 
same Gospel, in some degree committed unto us of the Lord, 
to preach his inward coming, yet we have no commandment 



THE SACRAMENTS. 119 

from him to administer either such bread or cup, or water 
baptism ia any form ; nor do we believe that any others have 
it at this day : and therefore we justly and reasonably decline 
either to administer or receive them. 

And as he could not oppose us herein himself, he brought 
out a Bible printed with notes ; and having read the annota- 
tions on the last chapter of Matthew, about baptism and 
sprinkling, they appeared so impertinent that himself would 
not assert the truth of them, or insist upon it ; but, after some 
time, was silent on the point, I having proved to him that 
there is but one only baptism remaining in the Church of 
Christ, and that is his baptism by his Holy Spirit. 

In some further discourse I had occasion to speak of their 
ministers, and how they were made and sent by one another 
only, and not by Christ; and, though called by the people, not 
always by their inclinations, but by the subtlety and manage- 
ment of those ministers, and their aiders, accomplices, and 
parties ; and their first view and general aim was to live upon 
them ; and that when they had places, they would exchange 
them for better, without any regard to the people : though they 
commonly deceive the weak and ignorant with an unreasonable 
pretence of a mission from Christ, by the words in Matthew, 
where he said unto the eleven disciples, "Go ye therefore and 
teach all nations, baptizing them in (or rather into) the name 
of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost,'' &c. And though it 
doth not appear that the Lord ever commanded those men- 
made ministers, yet they run, and, according to the extent of 
the words of Christ and his apostles, pretend a call from him 
to preach unto all nations, and to baptize them ; though they 
commonly take up at the next town that will entertain them 
for hire and pay, and baptize none, but only sprinkle little 
children, who do not need it, nor does it them any good at all : 
So that they do not answer their pretended call in any respect. 



120 T. story's conversations, etc. 

CHAPTER XXI. 
CAPTAIN WILLIAM BASSETT, ROCHESTER. 

1704. 

WAE. 

That evening we went to Sippycan (otherwise called 
Rochester), and lodged with our friend Aaron Barlow, and, 
next day, had a meeting there : It was small and hard, but 
ended well, and, after the meeting, we went to Sandwich, and 
lodged with our friend Daniel Allen. That night, though 
late, came to us one Captain William Bassett, a man of good 
temper and understanding as a man, the greatest disputant in 
those parts for the Presbyterians, against all others, and (in 
the state he was in) even against the Truth itself, according 
to the present dispensation of it to his people, having often 
disputed with Friends concerning war and fighting j who being 
come, at that time, to see a copy of the judgment against the 
young men before mentioned (for not training nor going to 
war against the French and Indians), I took occasion to say, 
that Christians ought not to fight, or learn war. And that 
whereas Grod hath said by his prophets, " It shall come to pass 
in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall 
be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted 
above the hills ; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many 
people shall go and say. Come ye, and let us go up to the 
mountain of the Lord, to the house of the Grod of Jacob, and 
he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths : 
For, out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the 
Lord from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, 
and shall rebuke many people : And they shall beat their 
swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks ; 



WAR. 121 

Nation shall not lift up sword against nation ; neither shall 
they learn war any more. house of Jacob, come ye, and 
let us walk in the light of the Lord." Now all this the law 
of the government of Boston contradicts, where it saith in 
express words, " x\ll above sixteen, and under sixty years of 
age, shall appear in arms, and be trained up in war." And 
upon these Scriptures I observe, that the nations, or any of 
them, so long as they will continue to reject the Lord Jesus 
Christ, the true light which lighteth every man which cometh 
into the world (in which the house of Jacob, the true Church, 
walketh), and follow their own corruptions, lusts, and laws 
made by themselves, to support them therein, they will, from 
age to age, go on in war and destruction one of another, as 
well after the coming of Christ in the flesh as before : Yet 
the true disciples of Christ, his Church (which is not national), 
are those who speak the language of those prophecies in their 
actions, as well as words and doctrine : they will not fight now 
in defence of the religion taught by Christ and his prophets 
and apostles, more than his disciples in the days of his flesh 
would fight for his person ; fighting, in its root and nature, 
being opposite to Christ and the end of his coming, who 
teacheth us to love enemies, and not to destroy them, and 
^'came not to destroy the lives of men, but to save them." 
The language of his followers, the saved of the Lord, is, 
^^ Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to 
the house of the God of Jacob, and he will teach us of his 
ways, and we will walk in his paths. And, house of Jacob, 
come ye and iet us walk in the light of the Lord. For 
all people will walk every one in the name of his God, and we 
will walk in the name of the Lord our God, for ever and ever. 
And the nations of them that are saved shall walk in the light 
of the Lamb." 

And at the same time we had some further conference about 
justification, and sanctification, and freedom from sin in this 
life; wherein I informed him, that the Lord's way of sanctifi- 
cation and justification, is to make men just who were not so, 
and holy who were before defiled by sin : As it is said, " Either 
11 



122 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

make tlie tree good, and his fruit good ; or else make the tree 
corrupt, and his fruit corrupt : for the tree is known by his 
fruit. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus 
unto good works, which God hath before prepared, that we 
should walk in them. And have put on the new man, which 
is renewed in knowledge, after the image of him who created 
him." The Lord Jesus Christ came not to save men in their 
sins (that cannot be), but from them, and all the dreadful 
effects of them, and to bring them ^' into the glorious liberty 
of the children of God.'^ 

The substance of all these things the captain heard with 
good temper and solidity, and seemed pretty well satisfied ; and 
I heard he spake afterward in commendation of that discourse, 
unto several persons of his own persuasion, on sundry occa- 
sions : But before we parted, I said unto him, that I should be 
glad to see some of the more moderate sort of their magistrates 
and ministers, and to discourse with them about religious 
matters, for I suspect we are not rightly understood in divers 
points of religion by them ; which, by the sequel, he bore in 
mind, though at that time he said not much to it. 



CHAPTER XXII. 
ROLLON-GOD COTTON, A PRIEST. 

1704. 

A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 

On the 22 d we rested at Sandwich ; and next day (being 
the first of the week), had a meeting there, which was large. 
And here I shall note a passage with the priest of that place. 

Having had some occasional conference with ^Captain Bas- 
sett, one of the justices of the peace of that place, as above 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 123 

biuted, a friend told him on the seventh day before our last 
meeting, that I purposed to call at his house on the 24th, 
about nine in the morning, which I accordingly did, where I 
found assembled a great many Friends and others; for my 
intention of calling occasionally being known, they on both 
sides expected a dispute, of which I had no notion or appre- 
hension : But soon after we had entered the captain's house, 
and drank a glass of cider, he made a short speech to me, in 
the audience of as many as could throng into the room, to 
this purpose, viz., '^ Sir, you told me upon our last conference, 
that you could be glad to see some of the more moderate sort 
of our magistrates and ministers, and to discourse with them 
on religious subjects; here are several of our magistrates pre- 
sent (pointing to them), and this gentleman (pointing to one 
in the room) is our teacher." 

To this I answered, by giving them a relation upon what 
occasion and subjects, the captain and I had been discoursing; 
and that what I had said concerning their magistrates and 
ministers, was with respect to them at large in the province, 
as I might have occasion, and not in that place only, my 
inclinations being to endeavor to persuade them to more mode- 
ration concerning our Friends, now in the time of war, and to 
give them a more distinct knowledge of our principles, than I 
perceived they hitherto had ; but had not any thought of such 
a gathering; that besides there. was only one of their ministers 
there: However, seeing so many people. had heard already 
what subjects the captain and I had been upon, I was willing 
we should resume them in their audience. And upon my 
mentioning that point of freedom from sin in this life, their 
minister (whose name was Rollon-God Cotton) answered, that 
*' it is the duty of every true Christian to aspire after freedom 
from sin in this life." 

I replied, that seeing he acknowledged that to be a duty, he 
must of consequence, own it possible; and that therefore there 
was no need to say any more about it. 

To this he replied, '' It is said '■ Ye shall be holy, for I the 
Lord your God am holy :' and yet who will presume to say he 



124: T. story's conversations, etc. 

is as holy as God ?" Then said I, the Scripture saith, 
" Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy, for I am the 
Lord your God. And ye shall keep my statutes and do them : 
I am the Lord which sanctify you." Seeing therefore it is 
the Lord who sanctifies, his work is perfect, he doth it fully ; 
and what God hath sanctified, let no man call common or 
unclean. And God's people (who are so indeed) are a holy 
people : As it is written, "For thou art a holy people unto the 
Lord thy God.'' ''The Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be 
a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon 
the face of the earth. The Lord did not set his love upon you, 
nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any 
people (for ye were the fewest of all people) ; but because the 
Lord loved you," &c. I added further, that we spake not of 
degrees of holiness, as comparing man with God therein, other- 
wise than the Lord himself hath done : But as God is abso- 
lutely perfect, and infinite in all essential attributes, moral and 
divine; so there is a holiness applicable to man as a perfect 
creature of God : ''For in the beginning God created man in 
his own image, in righteousness and true holiness," and yet 
we do not say that man was equal therein to God Even so, 
man may be truly restored by God, through Christ, to the 
same holiness, and may, and ought to confess it, to the honor 
of God, without any presumption : seeing that since the fall 
of man, and before the coming of Christ in the flesh, God hath 
thus said to his people, " Ee ye holy, for I am holy;" which 
the Lord would not have said, if like holiness with his own 
had not, through his word, been attainable by them. And so 
likewise of God's righteousness, as well as his holiness, where 
it is said, " Little children, lot no man deceive you : He that 
doth righteousness, is righteous, even as he is righteous." 

Upon this their minister was silent; but the justices and 
people being desirous that some other points should be moved 
and debated, Captain Bassett having great sway among them, 
proposed that we should adjourn from his house to their meet- 
ing-house (near by) where I might (if I could) make out the 
matter more fully, with what else might occur, before the 



A HOLY life/ the MINISTRY, ETC. 125 

people. To this the minister was averse; but, the captaia 
being seconded by the rest of the justices, the minister was 
overruled, and to the meeting-house we went, and the people 
followed us. It was some time before their minister pitched 
upon a point, upon which to oppose us; but at last (notwith- 
standiog what had passed before) he moved this question 
(as thinking himself strongest in that point, in the common 
opinion of the people, into which the priests of every sort have 
deceived them), viz. : 

" Whether there be a state of freedom from sin attainable 
in this life ?" and I being willing, as the Lord might enable 
nie, to make our doctrine in that point plain to the people, 
assumed the affirmative, and my opponent assumed the nega- 
tive. 

The affirmative being mine, I was to prove it; and accord- 
ingly began and proceeded after the manner of the Apostles 
Paul and John : first to prove, that all men commonly sin in 
this life in a state of nature, or are liable thereto by tempta- 
tion; and then, that the offers of salvation are made by God 
the Father unto all mankind in Christ the Son of God; and 
that whosoever does accept of those offers in God's way and 
time, may not only be saved at last, but freed from sin in this 
present world. 

The Apostle Paul in his Epistle to the Romans, proves the 
Gentiles (of whose lineage are all nations, the Jews excepted) 
to be sinners, by breaking the law of God written in their 
hearts, whereby they became conscious of sin, and guilty before 
God. And the Jews likewise, according to the Psalms of 
David, where it is written concerning them, " There is none 
righteous, no not one : There is none that doth good, no not 
one." And again, " God hath concluded them all in unbelief, 
that he might have mercy upon all :" and again, "The Scrip- 
ture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith 
of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe." 

The apostle having thus proved all to be sinners, both Jews 
and Gentiles, he proceeds to preach salvation to all by the Lord 
Jesus Christ, saying, " Being justified freely by bis Grace 



126 T. story's oonyer!5ations, etc. 

(whicli hath appeared unto all men) thyough the redemption 
which is in Jesus Christ. . Whom God hath set forth to be a 
propitiation, through faith in his blood, to declare his righteous- 
ness for the remission of sins that are past, through the 
forbearance of God." Which faith must be obtained in this 
life or never. 

The same apostle, in another place, proceeds to set forth 
freedom from sin in this life likewise by the same Saviour, 
saying, ^^ As by the offence of one, judgment came upon all 
men to condemnation ; even so, by the righteousness of one, 
the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 
This free gift is the grace of God which bringeth salvation, 
and hath appeared to all men, teaching us (especially all who 
believe therein) that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, 
we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present 
world : That where sin once abounded, grace might much 
more abound : That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so 
might grace reign through righteousness, unto eternal life, by 
Jesus Christ our Lord, What shall we say then ? shall we 
continue in sin, that grace may abound ? God forbid : How 
shall we who are dead unto sin live any longer therein ? 
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the 
body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not 
serve sin. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead 
dieth no more; Death hath no more dominion over him. For 
in that he died, he died unto sin once ; but in that he liveth, 
he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to 
be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God, through Jesus 
Christ our Lord. Being then made free from sin, ye became 
the servants of righteousness ; for when ye were the servants 
of sin ye were free from righteousness : but now, being made 
free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit 
unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.'^ Again, after this 
apostle had brought this doctrine of freedom from sin in this 
life to a period, under the similitude of the death and resur- 
rection of Christ, and thereby established the certainty of it, 
he resumes the same doctrine in the beginning of the seventh 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 127 

chapter, under another similitude, and brings it to the like con- 
clusion; "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins 
(or passions) which were (discovered) by the law, did work in 
our members, to bring forth fruit unto Death ; but now we 
are delivered from the law, that being dead (or being dead to 
that) wherein we were held, that we should serve (God) in 
newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. That 
ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised 
from the dead (who is without sin) that we should bring forth 
fruit unto God." They being dead unto sin and the carnal 
mind, which is enmity against God, in which (a state of 
nature) they had been held, they then became as pure virgins, 
espoused unto him who had died for them in divine, pure, 
and matchless love (who cannot be joined to any unclean 
thing) in the new covenant of everlasting love, light, and life 
eternal, that they, by him, might bring forth fruit unto God; 
which is holiness, righteousness, Truth, and peace, and not 
sin or evil. 

And a third time the apostle proceeds, and insists upon 
the same doctrine, and finally establisheth it unalterably the 
same way : First, setting forth the power of sin in the flesh 
(notwithstanding the moral precepts of the law, which proves 
insufficient until we come unto Christ, or until his power be 
inwardly revealed, by whom alone full freedom and deliver- 
ance from sin in this life, and eternal salvation from the wages 
thereof in another world, is come), the apostle speaking con- 
cerning himself and the Church of Christ at that time, and 
the state they had been in before they believed in him, saith, 
" when we were in the flesh the motions of sins did work in 
our members," as above : That the knowledge of sin comes by 
the law: That sin brings spiritual death; and being disco- 
vered by the commandment becomes exceeding sinful : That 
the law is spiritual, but man in his natural and fallen state, is 
carnal, a slave to his own corruptions, lusts, and sins : For 
though the law (which is light, and the commandment, which 
is as a burning lamp) discovers to man his duty, what he 
ought to do, and leave undone; yet, through the weakness 



128 T. story's conversations, etc. 

of nature in its fallen state, and the suggestions of the evil 
one, in the imaginations and carnal mind (no good thing being 
in the flesh), the apostle and others, under the law, were held 
captive, and under a long and hard struggle for liberty and 
victory, but could not obtain it by all the legal precepts, or 
rational assent nnto them, nor by his own learning or natural 
powers. He delighted in the law of God in his mind ; yet, 
seeing another law in his members (to be understood as the 
temptations of the evil one, working in the lusts and corrup- 
tions of the carnal mind), warring against the law of his mind, 
and bringing him into captivity to the law of sin, which was 
in his members ; and seeing no way of deliverance, by the law 
of Moses, from sin, he cries out, as it were aloud, under a 
sense of the whole weight, power, force, and body of sin, and 
saith, " wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from 
the body of this death." 

Now, though the apostle, in all this, speaks as in the first 
person (setting forth the state he had once been in, or rather 
the state in which the Jews were who had not believed in 
Christ ; for this apostle had been, " touching the righteous- 
ness of the law, blameless"), yet it is plain, that neither the 
apostle himself, nor the true believers and followers of Christ 
in that day, were in that state of sin at that time, but redeemed 
from it : for instantly, after the apostle had thus cried out, 
^^ who shall deliver me from the body of this death" ! he 
immediately, and most comfortably answers, '^I thank God, 
through Jesus Christ our Lord;" and adds, "There is there- 
fore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, 
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit; for the law 
of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, hath made me free from 
the law of sin and death." 

Now, seeing the apostle speaks of a state of captivity and 
bondage under the law, or power of sin and death in this life, 
and of a state of redemption and freedom from that law also, 
in this present world, by Christ, including the apostle himself, 
and eyery living member of the true church, neither he, nor 
any other of them, as such, could be in those two opposite 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 129 

states at the same time, or in so short a time as he was in 
writing that part of his Epistle ; which in an ordinary way, 
might be in less than two hours : but sin being reproved and 
condemned in them, by the manifestation of the Holy Spirit 
of Christ, and the righteousness of the law fulfilled in them, 
and they become the sous of God thereby, they were gntdually 
led out of sin into all truth, according to the promise of Christ ; 
whose word is truth, and sure for ever unto all who believe, 
love, and obey him. 

And also, in another place, this apostle confirms the same 
doctrine, with respect to the present salvation, state, and 
attainments of the true disciples of Christ in that day : where 
he saith, ''for we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, dis- 
obedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living 
in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another, but after 
that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man 
appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, 
but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of 
regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which he shed 
on us abundantly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour;" whicb 
must be done in this life, or else there will be no entering the 
kingdom of God ; for no unclean thing can enter there. 

The Apostle Paul, having thus, in this Epistle, fully 
preached the glorious doctrine of liberty from sin in this life, 
through Jesus Christ, the word, son, wisdom, and power of 
the Father, as he likewise preaches the same in divers places 
of others of his Epistles, not necessary to be mentioned at 
this time, I proceed to prove the same doctrine, by the author- 
ity and testimony of the Apostle John, who preached it after 
the same manner, that it may be established from the mouths 
of two so great and faithful witnesses. 

First, that all have sinned and wanted salvation : 2dly, that 
Christ died for all mankind : and 3dly, that all who believe in 
the Lord Jesus Christ, and follow him in the regeneration, are 
not only freed from all sin in this life, but eternally saved in 
that which is to come. 

In the first place the apostle reminds the Church, what 



130 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

was the testimony of the apostles unto them from the begin- 
ning of their preaching of the Gospel, and the certainty of it, 
as what they had "heard, seen, and handled of the word of 
life;" so that they certainly knew, and were witnesses of the 
truth they delivered unto others, "that God is light, and in 
him is no darkness at ail.'^ 

In the next place, that they had formerly, in their natural 
state, been sinners, but having confessed their sins unto the 
Holy One, who in love and mercy convinceth and reproveth 
the world of sin, then his faithfulness and justice was made 
manifest in them, not only in the forgiveness of the acts of 
their sins against his law, but likewise in cleansing them from 
all the inward pollution of sin and unrighteousness. 

If they had said they had not sinned, they would then have 
given God the lie, who sent his Son to save them from their 
sins : but though all have sinned, yet God, in infinite lore, 
mercy, and goodness, hath sent his Son the Lord Jesus Christ, 
^' to be a propitiation for the sins of the whole world;" thereby 
declaring his mercy and goodness in him unto all mankind, to 
be testified in due time. And the sin and condemnation of 
the world stands in this ; that Christ is come into the world, 
-not only as man and lifted up, but also as he is the true light, 
"which lighteth every man that cometh into the world;" but 
the world neither knoweth him nor believeth in him (as that 
light) nor loveth him, but men rather love themselves, and 
darkness, wherein to act their own wills, and hide from them- 
selves their own evil deeds. 

And although this divine eternal light reproveth and 
condemneth all sin and evil in mankind, yet faith therein doth 
not only restore and preserve from final perdition, but hath 
the promise of life eternal : and on the contrary he that 
believeth not is under present condemnation, not for acts of 
sin and evil only, but because "he hath not believed in the 
name of the only begotten Son of God." Thus is faith in the 
Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, as he is lifted up and 
crucified, and likewise as he is the true and divine light 
(and that faith accompanied and evidenced with good works), 



A HOLY LIFEj THE MINISTRY, ETC. 131 

necessary and effectual for redemption, and present restoration 
of unbelieving, sinful, polluted mankind, from under their 
present condemnation, and for their preservation unto life 
eternal. 

And seeing God the Father, through Jesus Christ the Son, 
hath given a saving gift of his divine light, spirit, grace, and 
truth (which is one and the same), unto all mankind, to lead, 
direct, and guide them, as an ever-living, infallible teacher 
unto all, that whosoever shall believe therein and repent of 
their sins, and obey him in his manifestations in their hearts, 
minds, and understandings, shall be surely led into all Truth, 
and consequently out of all untruth and error ; which must be 
in this life, where sin, untruth, and error only are. The cause 
of such the Lord Jesus will advocate before the Father. 

And as the knowledge of God and Christ is eternal life, so 
the evidence of tbat knowledge is the keeping of his command- 
ments, and the love of the brethren : and whoever pretendeth 
to that knowledge, and keepeth not bis commandments, is a 
liar, and Christ, who is the Truth, is not in him ; he is a 
reprobate, and his sins remain upon him, notwithstanding the 
sufficiency of the propitiation in its own nature, and to its 
general and proper end : But whosoever keepeth his word, in 
him is the love of God perfected; whereby such sanctified 
souls know not only that their sins are forgiven them, but 
that they are in him that is true, in whom there is no sin ; 
and such walk in the way of faithfulness and obedience to the 
Father in all things, even as Christ himself walked, who never 
sinned; which sinless walking, must refer to the Christian 
conduct in this world in order to be settled at last in the 
kingdom of glory; where nothing sinful or unclean, while so, 
can come. 

And this apostle clearly distinguisheth three several states 
and orders in the Universal Church of Christ at that time; 
that is to say, little children, young men, and fathers : And 
it hath ever been the same from that day unto this, and ever 
will be, from age to age, and generation to generation, to the 
end of the world. He writes first unto little children in 



132 T. story's conversations,- etc. 

Christ, that they should not sin : for this apostle, as all the 
rest, having once been such, knew the danger they were in of 
being enticed by the evil one, mysteriously working in their 
own natural propensities, affections, passions, and desires, even 
after they had known something of the beginning of the work 
of Christ, the word of God, in them ; and yet if such should 
sin, he (to preserve them from despairing of the mercy of God, 
through a consciousness of sin, and the accusations of the evil 
one) remarks the provision which is made for their safety, 
saying, '' If any man sin, we have an advocate with the 
Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." Their sins were for- 
given them, and they knew the Father. 

2dly. The apostle writes to the young men in Christ, not 
that they should not sin (they having attained a further degree 
of growth and establishment), but because they were strong 
through the abiding and in-dwelling of Christ, the word of 
God, in them, and had thereby overcome the wicked one ; and 
there was nothing then to lead them into sin, but they were 
preserved from the sins and evils of the world through the 
prayer and intercession of Christ, until they attained a further 
degree of knowledge of God, and in due time became fathers. 

3dly. He wrote unto the fathers of the Church, not as to 
children, that they should not sin ; nor as to young men, who 
were not yet perfect in knowledge, but because they had 
known him who is from the beginning : They were come to 
the certain infallible knowledge of God and Christ, as sure as 
(and more so than) they could know the certainty of any 
object, knowable by hearing, seeing, or handling thereof: 
They knew Christ, not only as the Messiah, sent of the Father 
into the world in human nature, but as he is the word of life, 
manifested unto them, and in them : And that was the message 
of the apostles to the Church (the congregation of God) from 
the beginning of the publication of the Gospel, in order to true 
church fellowship ; that as Christ is the word of life from the 
Father, so God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 
And this message was thus declared, by the apostles and mes- 
sengers of Christ, unto the Universal Church of God, that 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 133 

they might have fellowship with them whose fellowship was 
with the Father, and with his Sou Jesus Christ, which plainly 
implies the presence of the Father and Son divinely and sen- 
sibly in them, and in every true and living member of that 
holy and saved body; where no sin, uncleanness, or unright- 
eousness can remain or come : For they who live in sin, live 
in darkness, and are dead unto God while they live in the 
world, and when they pretend to fellowship with God and 
Christ in his Church, they lie, and do not the truth, but con- 
tinue in sin, and have only a church and fellowship therein 
of their own inventing and composing, and not of the Lord : 
For as the Father and Son are one, a divine and eternal light, 
in whom there is no darkness ; good works are the evidence 
of true faith in him ; and even so, walking and having con- 
versation in and through this present world of darkness, in 
and by that light, is the true and only test of fellowship with 
God and Christ, and the Universal Church of Christ, wherever 
hidden, dispersed, or visible in the world ; all the members of 
this holy Christian fellowship having not only all their trans- 
gressions pardoned, but are also cleansed by the blood and 
Spirit of Christ, from all sin. 

Though I have been long upon this necessary and important 
doctrine of the apostles of Christ, let your patience bear a little 
longer, till I add some more texts out of the same Epistle of 
the latter, in further confirmation of the same doctrine ; where 
he saith, '^ Every man that hath this hope in him (that is, 
of seeing the Lord as he is), purifieth himself even as he is 
pure j and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sin- 
neth not; whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known 
him. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin ] for 
his seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is 
born of God." It is therefore evident, that as many as receive 
the word of God, by whom the world was made, " to them he 
gives power to become the sons of God, even to them that be- 
lieve on his name ; who are born not of blood, nor of the will 
of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." 

Now, I would have the auditory to observe, that the Epistle 
12 



134 T. story's conversations, ETd. 

of John was written chiefly to preserve the Church of God 
from being seduced from the teachings of Christ, the Word of 
Life (of which they were born), by the antichrists of those 
days, who attempted to draw them therefrom, back into the 
rites of the law of Moses ; effectually ended by the coming and 
manifestation of Christ the Lord, as appears by these parts of 
the Epistle, where it is said, " Little children, it is the last 
time (or dispensation), and as you have heard, that antichrist 
shall come, even now are there many antichrists ; whereby we 
know it is the last time. They went out from us, but they 
were not of us ; for if they had been of us, they would, no 
doubt, have continued with us : but they went out, that they 
might be made manifest that they were not all of us : But ye 
have an unction from the holy one, and ye know all things. 
These things have I written unto you concerning them that 
seduce you : but the anointing which ye have received of him 
abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you : but 
as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is Truth, 
and is no lie ; and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide 
in him." 

And the successors of those antichrists, and their supporters 
(who have, from age to age, even until now, formed and com- 
posed unto themselves images, and likenesses of religion and 
worship, from mistaken, wrested, and misapplied texts and 
portions of the Holy Scriptures, intermixed with many and 
various inventions and imaginations of their own, and imposed 
and obtruded their forgeries, by violence of persecutions, upon 
the Church of Christ and mankind), are still, under various 
names, forms, communities, and powers of the earth, the chief 
opposers that Christ and his true ministers and doctrine 
(which, in itself, is the same now as then) do meet with in 
this generation. Those antichrists had once been professors 
of Christ, and many of them then were, as to his outward 
coming in the flesh, but had gone out, and apostatized from 
the Spirit of Christ, the holy anointing, and from the divine 
light of God, and the fellowship of the faithful therein ; deny- 
ing thereby the Lord who bought them ; attempting to draw 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 135 

the Church of God after themselves and their false teachings, 
and to establish the rites and rigliteousness of the law of Moses, 
in their own erroneous sense; together with their own hetero- 
dox sentiments concerning the faith of Christ, imposed by 
persecution and antichristian violence : And so it is now, by 
the same spirit, in like mercenary members ; who come in their 
own names and wills, and not in the name, will, and power of 
the Lord, and seek and propagate their own interest, honor, 
power, and glory only, and not the Lord's, nor the good of 
mankind ; but to make a prey, gain, and advantage of them 
unto themselves. 

These things having passed after this manner, I drew to a 
conclusion thus : that, though by nature, as we are the off- 
spring of the first Adam, we have a seed of evil or sin in us ; 
which springing up, and we acting according to its motions 
(being influenced by the evil one), become guilty before God ; 
yet, as we receive and believe in, and unite with Christ, the 
word of God, the second Adam, the Lord from Heaven, the 
quickening Spirit, and are witnesses of his work in our hearts, 
we become born of him (that seed), who never fell, or could 
fall, children of God, and heirs of his precious promises, par- 
takers of the divine nature^ and have present redemption from 
under the power of sin and Satan. 

During all this time, which held above an hour, the people 
were very still ; but their minister was fretful, and interrupted 
me often, for he saw what I said took with them : But several 
of the justices reprehended him openly divers times, and he 
was much down and discouraged. 

When I had done, he answered, " that there is not a just 
man upon the earth that doth good and sinneth not; and that 
if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves,'' with some 
such things in favor of sin, very short, and so sat down. 

I replied, that I had already repeated one of those texts of 
Scripture, and some others to the same purpose (for I intended 
at first to anticipate him in what they usually allege in favor of 
that pernicious doctrine of " sin term of life") ; and that whatso- 
ever was written in the law was to them who were under it. 



136 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

It is true while men were under that law, which gave the 
knowledge of sin, but did not redeem from it, all these things 
were true as to them : For the law made nothing perfect; but 
the bringing in of a better hope doth : which hope is '' Christ 
in us, the hope of glory f the law of the Spirit of life by 
Christ, which, received and believed in, worketh in us a con- 
formity to the will of God ; which the law of Moses could not 
do, as I have already proved. 

This opposer was very angry at all this, and several times 
broke out into opprobrious language, and false charges against 
us as a people ; but several of the magistrates reproved him : 
and Captain Bassett, alleging still that the apostle was in that 
sinful and wretched state when he wrote that Epistle, under- 
took the argument, but advanced nothing new, only the weak- 
ness of nature since the fall, and how easily we are prevailed 
upon to sin. Whereupon I took the Bible again, and showed 
him, in the same chapter, that the apostle speaks only of a 
state under the law (but was not in that condition himself at 
that time), in these words : " For when we were in the flesh, 
the motions of sin, which were by the law, did work in our 
members to bring forth fruit unto death ; but now we are 
delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held, 
that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the old- 
ness of the letter." Here it is evident, that the apostle speaks 
of two very differing states ; of sin, in which they had once 
been, whilst in the flesh or carnal mind, and of freedom from 
sin in the spirit ; and they could not be in those two opposite 
states at the same time. By the law is the law or power of 
sin made manifest, or discovered, reproved, and condemned in 
the mind and understanding, but sin is not thereby, or can by 
any outward law, be subdued and slain, until man believe, 
repent, receive, follow, and obey the law of the Spirit of life ; 
which doth not only reprove and condemn for sin, but 
destroys it. 

Now, that wherein we are captivated, and held in our first 
and natural state, is our carnal mind, which, being '' enmity 
against God," neither is or can be, as such, subject unto his 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 137 

law ; but tliat enmity being slain and crucified by the cross 
of Christ, the grace and Spirit of God, and the body of sin 
destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin, then the 
reproving and condemning power of the law ceaseth to work 
in the soul ; for they who are Christ's have crucified the flesh, 
with the afi'ections and lusts. 

And though they who are in the flesh cannot please God, 
yet the apostle, by the flesh, doth not mean the natural body, 
but the carnal mind ; for he saith, " But ye are not in the 
flesh, but in the. Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell 
in you. Now, if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is 
none of his.'' 

By this time the Truth being in some measure over the peo- 
ple, they were generally calm and silent; and being asked if 
they were satisfied ? they made no reply ; only one pettish 
justice, of the old envious sort, a friend of sin, with an air of 
rancour, said, No : And Captain Bassett, being desirous of 
further dispute, said, '' He could not yet believe that mankind 
could be freed from sin in this life :" but neither of them 
assigned any foundation or cause for their unbelief. And then 
their minister, taking fresh encouragement from them, blus- 
tered out several harsh and false charges, and railing accusa- 
tions against us as a people ; which I took in writing, and put 
him upon his proof; viz., " 1st. That the Quakers hold lying 
and damnable principles. 2dly. That the Scriptures of the 
Old and New Testament are the ground of faith, and rule of 
life." 

Both which I denied, and put him upon his proof, which he 
undertook, and began thus. : " The words of the charge seem 
harsh, but I cannot help it ; the nature of the thing requires 
it, and it is not I that bring the charge but God, upon their 
own disobedience : For, as it is written, ' he that saith 1 know 
him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth 
is not in him.' Now, our blessed Lord hath commanded, as 
you will find it written in the 28th chapter of Matthew, at the 
19th and 20th verses, ' Go ye, therefore, and teach all nations, 
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and 
12 * 



138 T. story's conyersationSj etc. 

of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things what- 
soever I have commanded jou : and, lo, I am "with you always, 
even unto the end of the world.' Now, these people, living 
in the avowed neglect of this great commandment, and yet 
pretending to know Grod, and the way of God, they are liars, 
and the truth is not in them : Therefore all sober Christian 
people ought to beware of them, and shun them as deceivers.'' 

To this I answered, that if by this Scripture he understood 
water baptism, as I apprehended he did, he mistook it ; for 
every institution of Christ is plain and explicit, and water not 
being mentioned there, he must prove it, if he could, some 
other way : But if it were water baptism, then he himself, and 
all of his communion, living in neglect of this commandment 
(as he imagines it to be), are equally, if not more guilty; not 
beiag in the practice of any baptism ever instituted by Christ, 
or in use in his Church in the days of his apostles, or for some 
hundreds of years after, either as to the manner, instrument, 
or subjects of baptism : For sprinkling is no baptism, nor are 
infants the subjects of it; for the words of the text are, " teach 
ail nations, baptizing them in (or rather into) the name of the 
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them 
to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you," &c. 

The instrument of baptism here, according to your minister, 
was water, and the manner of applying it, as is well known, 
and as the word itself signifies, was by going into the water 
and washing (particularly the feet) therein. The subjects were 
not infants, but such as were capable, not only of being taught, 
or made disciples and believers, but likewise of observing and 
doing all things which Christ had taught his disciples ; of which 
infants are not capable : and if Christ had commanded his divS- 
ciples to baptize with water, and they had only sprinkled, they 
had not then obeyed him, but acted another thing, in their 
own wills, and made themselves transgressors. And if Christ 
had sent his disciples with such a message (as is plain he did 
not), what is that to this man, or any such ? Who sent them 
to do so ? 

Then the priest replied, and said, " he did not sprinkle 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 139 

infants." I answered, What dost thou then ? Dost thou pour 
water on their faces off thy hand ? or dost thou wash their 
faces with it? for it seems thou dost not baptize them. If 
not, thou dost not obey the commandment in thy own sense, if 
it were a command to thee : But this is only a low equivocal 
evasion. 

He replied, " You have no baptism at all ; and the ques- 
tion is not, whether we are in the right mode of baptizing, but 
whether you do, or not, break Christ's command in the neglect 
of it in any form ? And seeing you do neglect it, you are liars, 
and hold lying principles.'' 

Then directing my answer to the people, I said, the question 
on this head is equally applicable. Who is in the right or who 
is in the wrong ? and not only whether you be in the right 
mode of water baptism, but whether you have any at all (and 
it appears, as above, you have not); and whether that be 
water baptism in the text, where water is not mentioned, as 
your minister hath suggested, but not proved, and only begged 
the question, which I have not granted ? And whether they 
who neglect, or omit water baptism, be liars, and hold lying 
principles ? And as to us, whom he thus accuseth, we have, 
through the mercy of God, the true baptism here commanded, 
which is that of tlie Spirit; of which this man is no compe- 
tent judge, being ignorant of that great and saving work of 
the baptism of the Son of God. And I add one question 
more, Who sent him, and such as him, either to baptize or 
sprinkle? It doth not appear that they are sent of Christ: 
But if he hath sent them to baptize, and they do not so, but 
only rautize, then they break his command by their own rule; 
and when they say to a child, " I baptize thee,'' or to others 
present, " I baptize this child in the name of the Father, Son, 
and Holy Ghost," they then lie in and unto that great name 
of the Holy One, and before the people ; who are yet so blind 
as not to see they are acting upon false and lying principles. 

The Lord gave a command to his eleven apostles to preach 
unto and disciple and baptize all nations : but what is that to 
these men now, who assume upon themselves a bare, imper- 



140 T. story's conversations, etc. 

feet, and mistaken or vicious imitation of it; in wliicli they 
seod one another with temporal, carnal, and corrupt views, in 
both the senders and sent; without any command from God, 
but from men ; who know nothing of the mind of Grod, nor 
at all seek it therein ; nor have any power from him in what 
they do ? For a command of that nature to the apostles, is 
none to any one else, unless he be likewise qualified, endued, 
and sent by the same power : For if this was water baptism, 
(as it is evident it was not), then it would have been a com- 
mand and sufficient mission to the Apostle Paul, who, though 
not behind the chief of the other apostles, as to any gift 
or qualification whatsoever, necessary to a Gospel minister, 
and '' labored more than they all," assures us, that " Christ 
sent him not to baptize, but to preach the Gospel." And 
as he was in a particular manner the minister of the Gen- 
tiles, and messenger of the promise of God unto them, " to 
turn them from darkness unto light, and from the power of 
Satan unto God," none can succeed him in baptizing with 
water who had it not by command from Christ himself. And, 
as that great apostle could not justly be accused and stigma- 
tized as a neglecter and breaker of the command of Christ in 
that case, or a liar, and holder of lying principles, when he 
thanked God that he had not proceeded any further than he 
did, in a practice for which he had no command or authority; 
neither can or ought we : But being in so good company 
therein, and having no command from Christ to baptize or 
sprinkle, or pour on water, or any way at all to use it herein, 
we cannot honestly be charged with any neglect of it, nor 
called liars therefore, nor holders of lying principles, nor void 
of truth; but men of truth, assuming nothing to ourselves 
but what we have freely received from the Lord, the gift of 
his grace, in which we minister freely, without money and 
without price ; and therefore all sober Christians ought rather 
to receive us, and our Christian testimony, for truth, and to 
shun the mercenary hirelings of the times, of every form, and 
beware of those as deceivers, who falsely accuse and calumni- 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 141 

ate us : For it is written, " He that receivetli you, receiveth 
me, and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me." 

Seeing then these men say they are sent of Christ, by these 
words in the text, to teach and baptize all nations; and- the 
Lord hath not sent them thereby, nor by any other mission, 
and they every one sit down where they can deceive the igno- 
rant people out of a maintenance, and do not baptize any, but 
only sprinkle, and confirm their disciples in their sins for term 
of their lives ; and thereby exclude them from the kingdom 
of God at last; they are liars against God and to mankind, 
and the truth is not in them : The powerful name of the 
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, they are ignorant of, and pro- 
fane it; and therefore all sober. Christian people ought to be 
aware of them, and shun them as deceivers. 

Then I told the people that there was a fallacy in his argu- 
ment, wbich they might easily perceive : For the Apostle 
John was not then writing of any commandment of that na- 
ture (being only ministerial), but of the moral commands of 
God, which were given to that people, the Jews, from the 
beginning of the dispensation of God unto them by Moses ; 
where it is written, " Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine 
heart; thou sbalt in anywise rebuke thy neighbor, and not 
suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge nor bear any 
grudge against the children of thy people ; but thou shalt love 
thy neighbor as thyself." 

And the Lord Jesus Christ, who came not to destroy the 
law, but to fulfil it, said unto his disciples, the same night in 
which he suffered, ''A new commandment I give unto you, 
that ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also 
love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my 
disciples, if ye have love one to another." And the Apostle 
John saith, "Brethren, I write no new commandment unto 
you, but an old commandment which ye had from the begin- 
ning : The old commandment is the word which ye have heard 
from the beginning. And whoso keepeth his word, in him 
verily is the love of God perfected : hereby know we that we 
are in him." By the "Word" here maybe understood the 



142 T. story's conversations, etc. 

"wliole commandments of God, moral and divine, as the root 
and perfection of all ; and, by the old commandment, may be 
understood the same preached by Moses unto that people in 
the wilderness in the beginning; where it is written, "This 
commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hid- 
den from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that 
thou shouldst say, Who shall go up for us to heaven and bring 
it unto us, that we may hear it and do it ? Neither is it be- 
yond the sea, that thou shouldst say, Who shall go over the 
sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do 
it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth and 
in thy heart, that thou mayest do it." 

By this Word God commanded Adam that he should not 
eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ; by the same 
he spake unto Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Samuel, Solomon, 
Elijah, Isaiah, David, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and, from time to 
time, unto all the prophets of God, in their several ages, 
according to the doctrine of the Apostle Peter, who expressly 
calls this Word the Spirit of Christ ; where he saith, ^^ Ee- 
ceiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 
Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched 
diligently, who prophesied of the grace which should come 
unto you. Searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit 
of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified be- 
forehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory which should 
follow." 

This is the Word by which God spake unto Moses and 
appeared in a manner so tremendous, that Moses hid his face; 
for he was afraid to look upon God. 

This is the same Spirit and power given unto the seventy 
elders, by which they preached in the camp of Israel in that 
day ; as it is written, '^ The Lord came down in a cloud, and 
spake unto Moses, and took of the Spirit that was upon him, 
and gave it to the seventy elders : and it came to pass, that 
when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied and did 
not cease." So that until this Holy Spirit come upon man- 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 143 

kind, unto that purpose, from God, they neither ought nor caa 
preach aright to the profit of the people. 

This eternal, unchangeable. Almighty "Word, is the wisdom 
and power of God, by which he made the worlds; which in 
the fulness of time, he clothed with human nature, under the 
name and character of Jesus Christ, the Messiah and sent of 
the Father; who was born, lived, died, rose from the dead, 
and ascended into heaven, and was first preached as such, by 
his chosen witnesses, apostles, and ministers; and afterwards 
(in like manner as the same word and commandment had been 
preached by Moses and the seventy elders in their day) by the 
Apostle Paul in his evangelical doctrine, where, speaking of 
Israel, he saith, "The righteousness which is of faith speaketh 
on this wise. Say not in thine heart. Who shall ascend into 
heaven (that is, to bring Christ down from above) ? or, who 
shall descend into the deep (that is, to bring up Christ again 
from the dead) ? But what saith it ? The Word is nigh thee, 
even in thy mouth and in thy heart; that is the word of faith 
which we preach/' 

And this is the same which the Apostle John calls the 
Anointing, the Spirit of Truth, which teacheth all things per- 
taining unto our duty to God, and one to another in him : 
And as they had declared unto the people from the beginning 
of their spiritual ministry, that '* God is light, and in him is 
no darkness at all,'' so he writes of this divine light, as of the 
new commandment, the evidence and fruit whereof is divine 
and brotherly love : But he who hateth his brother, " is in 
darkness even until now;" he is not come to Christ, the 
Gospel light of the Gentiles, and covenant of God with them, 
but remaineth where " darkness covereth the earth, and gross 
darkness the people, under the region and shadow of death," 
where the life of the second Adam, the Lord from heaven, the 
quickening Spirit, is not yet known. 

And let me observe to you once more, that this command 
in the text is only ministerial and personal, as are all those 
gifts of the Holy Spirit of Christ; such as wisdom, know- 
ledge in the things of God, faith, healing, working of miracles, 



144 T. story's conversations, etc. 

prophecy and preacliing tlie Gospel, discerning of spirits, 
divers kinds of tongues, the interpretation of tongues; "but 
all these worketh that one and the self-same spirit, dividing 
to every man severally as he will.'' By which God hath set 
in his Church, first, apostles ; secondly, prophets ; thirdly, 
teachers ; after these miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, 
governments, and diversities of tongues : " Are all apostles ? 
Are all prophets ? Are all teachers 't Are all workers of 
miracles," &c. Follow after charity, and desire spiritual 
gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. He that prophesieth 
speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and com- 
fort. I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that 
ye prophesied; for greater is he that prophesieth, than he 
that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the 
Church may receive edifying. Forasmuch as ye are zealous 
of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel, to the edifying of 
the Church. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and 
forbid not to speak with tongues." Thus every one is to be 
exercised in his own gift, to general edification and comfort, 
without any emulation or strife, to the hindering or lessening 
of the helps and services one of another, and creating and pro- 
moting of schisms and quenching of love ; which is the divine 
life and cement of the body. 

Thus you may observe, that all these, and like gifts of the 
Spirit, are ministerial and personal, for the edification of the 
body of Christ the Church : Therefore, if he that hath wisdom 
do not exercise it in the Church to edification and help, he 
who hath the gift of prophecy, is not to be blamed, because 
he who hath wisdom, doth not use it to its right end ; And if 
he who hath knowledge doth not use it to the end for which it 
is given him, he who hath -the gift of faith is not therefore to 
be blamed : And if he who hath the gift of prophecy, or 
preaching the gospel (for these are all gifts of the Spirit, in 
all ages of the Church, and not human acquirements) do not 
duly attend upon his ministry, they who have the gifts of 
wisdom, knowledge, or discerning of spirits, are not to blame, 
nor ought they to be accused as holding lying principles for 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 145 

his neglect, nor for not using of the proper gifts one of an- 
other, but for their own only. No more are we worthy of 
being charged as holding lying and damnable principles, in 
declining to use water baptism, seeing Christ hath not sent or 
commanded us to do it; but some of us to preach the Gospel, 
others to teach the way of Truth by word or writing ; and all 
to believe in Grod and in Christ, in every dispensation and 
manner of appearance, whether in the flesh among the Jews, 
or as divine eternal light, or as he is the Holy Spirit of life, 
the Lord and giver of life eternal, to all that believe in him 
and obey his voice. This charge therefore upon us, by your 
minister, of holding of lying and damnable principles, is a 
manifest perversion and misapplication of the Holy Scripture ; 
a false gloss and inference, not at all due unto us, but rather 
unto himself, as an advocate for sin, and a minister of it. 

And though it is not incumbent upon me, as the question 
or dispute is stated, to prove that water baptism was not com- 
manded in that text, but upon your minister, and he hath not 
done it; yet, for your sakes, and of my friends present, I find 
my mind engaged to endeavor to make it manifest that it was 
not water baptism, but the baptism of the Holy Ghost; the 
first being the baptism of John, and the latter of Christ. 

John the Baptist was sent of God to preach repentance to 
the Jews, and to baptize them with water, saying, that they 
should believe in one to come after him, who he did not then 
know, but that he was among the people, and ready to appear. 
That he was a baptizer superior to himself, and should baptize 
them with a more excellent baptism; and that was Christ. 
John was the servant, and his baptism was with water, and 
was to decrease, and consequently come to an end ; but Christ 
is the Son of God, and his baptism is with the Holy Ghost 
and divine sanctifying fire, and increaseth and remaineth 
until the end of the world; and as Christ fulfilled all the 
righteousness of the law of Moses, in his own person, so like- 
wise as John's baptism, in point of time, came before his, and 
the time of his public appearance (though he needed no re- 
pentance, not having sinned), it was incumbent upon him to 
13 



146 T. story's conversations, etc. 

fulfil the righteousness of that dispensation likewise ; and 
therefore he was baptized of John as others were : And thus 
concentering in himself all the righteousness of the typical 
dispensations of God, he became from thenceforth the sole 
dispenser of righteousness unto all nations and people, through- 
out all generations unto the end of the world : and he him- 
self is that essential righteousness in his own nature ; and 
therefore, as soon as he had fulfilled all that righteousness, he 
began to be made manifest, and to preach repentance to the 
Jews, as John did (that being most necessary to their sinful 
state), declaring the kingdom of God to be at hand to that 
people (for he was not sent at that time, nor in that manner 
to the Gentiles) ; and calling disciples, he sent them forth 
among the Jews, declaring him to be the Messiah, and preach- 
ing in his name the same doctrine, and baptizing with the 
same baptism, as to the mode and instrument of it, but with 
this distinction as to the application and end of it, John with 
water unto repentance, but with no object of faith certain, 
not in any name declared, but in him who was to come after, 
or to be made manifest ; but the disciples of Christ preached 
the same doctrine, and baptized with the same baptism, but 
in the name of the Lord Jesus, as the true object of faith, 
declaring him to be the Messiah, of whom Moses and the 
prophets wrote, now already come and made manifest; not 
unto repentance only, but for remission of sins repented of, 
in the name of him who was shortly to be offered up unto 
God, a propitiation for the sins of the whole world. 

And it is said, that Jesus made and baptized more disciples 
than John did ; yet he did not baptize any in his own person ; 
that was below the dispensation of the baptism John had as- 
cribed unto him, and committed unto his administration by 
the Father : which is a dispensation of eternal substance, of 
light, life, virtue, and power, and not of shadows or symbols, 
for the time that then was, until they were capable of higher 
attainments and services. 

The apostles and disciples of Christ, being thus in the prac- 
tice of water baptism, and other services of that day, the Lord, 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 147 

wlieu they were able to bear it, plainly told tlicm who he was, 
that is, the way, the truth, and the life ; and foretold them of 
his sufferings, a little before it came to pass ; of his departure 
from them ; that he must go away as to his bodily presence, 
but should come again in spirit, by which he should be in 
them as their comforter : And this promise he made in the 
Father's name, which was to come to pass as the effect of his 
own prayer and intercession. 

And accordingly, after he had suffered, and finished his 
testimony on earth, and was risen from the dead, he appeared 
to his disciples, and gave them several infallible proofs of it : 
And the apostles being present with him, in a place appointed, 
a little before he ascended into heaven, he said unto them, 
" All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth, and 
repentance and remission of sins, must be preached in my 
name unto all nations, beginning at Jerusalem ; and ye shall 
be witnesses unto me, both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, 
and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost parts of the earth. 
Go ye therefore, teach all nations, baptizing them in the name 
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost ; teach- 
ino- them to observe all thing's whatsoever I have commanded 
you : and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the 
world. Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to 
every creature ; he that believeth, and is baptized, shall be 
saved, but he that believeth not, shall be damned. And, be- 
hold, I send the promise of my Father upon you : But tarry 
ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power 
from on high. But ye shall receive power after that the Holy 
Ghost is come upon you. For John truly baptized with water, 
but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days 
hence." 

Here their mission and work were greatly enlarged; for, 
before, they (as well as himself) were confined to the Jews 
only, until he had finished his testimony unto them on earth ; 
but now they are sent unto all nations under heaven, to the 
uttermost parts of the world. They had been before baptized 
with John's water baptism ; and they had baptized many in 



148 T. story's conversations, etc. 

tlie name of the Lord, without any other power from on high, 
with the same baptism : But now they themselves were to be 
baptized with a more excellent baptism (foretold by John), the 
baptism of Christ ; which was with the Holy Ghost, and di- 
vine, holy, soul-cleansing fire, and then, and not before, 
they were to go out, in that glorious, wonderful, and powerful 
name, in that soul-saving work and service : For after the 
Lord had given them this command, to go teach all nations, 
baptizing them, &c., he restrained them by subsequent order 
from going by virtue of that command only, until they were 
actually endued with power from the Father, saying, " but ye 
shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon 
you ; for John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be bap- 
tized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence/' Now, by 
all this, it is clear, that the Lord Christ spake all these things, 
at one and the same time, unto his apostles, and with good 
and plain connection, very intelligible to any unprejudiced or 
unprepossessed understanding; though they are dispersed in 
the Scriptures, and some part recorded by one evangelist and 
some by another, and not entirely by any one of them. And 
that he distinguisheth between the baptism of John, with 
water (then in practice, and shortly to be superseded, and 
cease in point of obligation), and the baptism of Christ him- 
self by the Spirit ; which as it is the Gospel baptism and dis- 
pensation, was not then commenced, nor could be, until Christ 
ascended, and was glorified with the same glory that he had 
with the Father before the world was made. And the Lord 
Christ doth not mention in all this, any other water baptism 
but that of John, in distinction to the baptism of the Spirit ; 
which he establisheth alone, as his permanent, necessary, and 
saving baptism to the end of the world : Nor is it at all proba- 
ble, or any way likely, that Christ would reinstitute water 
baptism, which they were already in the practice of, by his 
own authority and countenance, that had its time and use 
already, and not so much as name water in all the words of 
the institution, but by way of contradistinction and precau- 
tion ] lest they should so far mistake, in so great and neces* 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 149 

sary a poiut, as to think he instituted another water baptism ; 
and, though they were apostles of Christ, and had received 
some degree of the Spirit, and were thereby sanctified, so far 
as to be fitted for the services to which they had been hitherto 
called, yet they were not at this time so thoroughly converted, 
or their understandings so far opened, as to know either the 
nature of this baptism, or extent of their commission therein : 
for worldly views had prepossessed their minds, and antici- 
pated and misguided their judgments for the present, until 
the holy thing declared itself unto them ; till the Holy Ghost 
came and was manifested in them, by its own divine and power- 
ful influence and work : for unto all that Christ said unto 
them on that subject, they answered him like men deeply pre- 
possessed with views and sentiments, of Christ and his king- 
dom, quite contrary to the nature of it, and the truth ; after 
a carnal manner saying, '^ Lord, wilt thou at this time restore 
as;ain the kinsrdom to Israel ?" 

It is not to be admired therefore, that none of them under- 
stood Christ either as to the nature or extent of their mission, 
at that time, until Peter was sent to the house of Cornelius 
(who was a Gentile), which was about eight years after this 
command J for till then, notwithstanding the plain intelligible 
words of Christ, they still thought salvation was confined unto 
themselves, the Jews only ; until Christ himself demonstrated 
the contrary by matter of fact, in baptizing Cornelius and his 
household, with the Holy Ghost, by the ministry of Peter; 
and then his understanding was opened and enlarged, and the 
rest likewise, who had yet remained ignorant, were, by his 
relation of the facts and circumstances of the whole matter, 
convinced and satisfied, both as to the nature and extent of 
their commission, that it is a spiritual baptism and dispensa- 
tion, wherein salvation is offered, through Christ, unto all 
nations and ages, and from generation to generation, to the 
end of the world. 

But though the Spirit of Christ, which is essential truth, 
and clothed with a human mind, leadeth those, who believe 
and follow him, into all truth ; yet not all at once, but as we 
13^' 



150 T. story's conversations, etc. 

poor, low, weak mortals are made able to bear, from one degree 
of convincement, illumination, sanctification, understanding, ex- 
perience, and knowledge, to another, under the conduct of the 
Spirit, until we arrive at as great perfection, as our nature is 
capable of in this present world, which is no small degree; in 
order to be completely fitted for a far greater glory, and full 
establishment, in a more excellent and permanent world to 
come, in life everlasting. 

Now, it is an easier matter for any man of tolerable sense, 
in a few sentences to puzzle any cause, or perplex any truth 
or point of doctrine of the Gospel, before incompetent judges, 
than for the most sincere, skilful, and competent ministers of 
it, to disentangle the matter, so as to make it clear to common 
capacities, and thereby command the assent of their under- 
standings, especially when such auditors are prepossessed and 
prejudiced against the truth by a series of practices and habits 
to the contrary, under a false apprehension of their being in 
the right : And therefore my opponent replied, " That not- 
withstanding all I had said on that head, it must still be 
water baptism which was commanded in that text ; for several 
of the apostles and ministers in that day, baptized with water, 
after the coming of the Holy Ghost; and their practice is the 
clearest way to determine what is the mind of Christ herein. 
For instance, when Peter, being filled with the Holy Ghost, 
at the time of the first effusion thereof, answering this ques- 
tion of the Jews, ' Men and brethren, what shall we do V 
said unto them, ' Eepent, and be baptized every one of you, 
in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye 
shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost/ Here it is plain, 
that Peter adviseth them who believed, to repent and be bap- 
tized in the name of Jesus Christ, as a necessary qualification, 
both for the remission of sins and gift of the Holy Ghost : 
And this cannot be understood of any other baptism but that 
of water ; for this is to precede, and the Holy Ghost to suc- 
ceed upon it, the former as a condition, in a manner, of the 
latter ; and accordingly, ' they who gladly received his word, 
were baptized.' 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 151 

" Again, when Peter preached unto Cornelius and his house- 
hold, after they had received the Holy Ghost, he commanded 
them to be baptized ; which could not be any other than water 
baptism. And Paul baptized twelve disciples at Ephesus ; 
which must have been with water, for they received the Holy 
Ghost afterward. And when P.hilip preached unto the Sama- 
ritans, they believed him, and ' were baptized, both men and 
women.' 

^' And Philip baptized the Eunuch; and Saul was baptized; 
and Lydia and her household were baptized ; and the gaoler 
and his household were baptized; and many of the Corinth- 
ians were baptized. And all those instances being after the 
coming of the Holy Ghost, they show, that it was water bap- 
tism which was commanded in the text ; and all ages since 
having been in the practice of it, declare they have ever so 
understood it, from that time until now." 

To this I answered, Though I have sufficiently spoken to 
this point already, and distinguished between baptism with 
water by John, but not in any name certain ; and the same 
water baptism by the disciples of Christ in his name, which 
was certain ; and the people of Israel's being generally bap- 
tized by John, only unto repentance, and not for remission of 
sins : Because he in whose name alone remission of sins is, 
was not then made manifest, nor had suffered for our sins, it 
was necessary they should be baptized with the same baptism, 
in the name of the Lord Jesus, as soon as he was made mani- 
fest, for the remission of sins, when repented of. And though 
there were several administrators of water baptism at the same 
time, John and the disciples of Christ to several purposes; 
yet it was the same baptism : For water baptism is but water 
baptism, whoever be the minister; and can no more reach to 
the inside, to the purifying of the mind, than could the blood 
of bulls. And though there are some instances of the admi- 
nistration of water baptism, after the commencement of the 
ministration of the baptism of the Spirit; yet they are but 
very few, and of those now mentioned, several are uncertain, 
whether the subjects were baptized with water at all or not; 



152 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

and those whicli are certaia confirm my assumption, that it is 
not water baptism which is mentioned by Matthew in that 
place ; but is the baptism of the Spirit only, they being 
generally distinguished in every instance : That with water in 
the name of Christ only ; and that with the Spirit, in the 
name, power, and authority of the Father, Son, and Holy 
Ghost, as comprehensive of all the righteousness of Grod, 
and the fulfilling of all his promises unto mankind through 
his word. For when Peter said unto them who heard and 
believed his doctrine, " Repent, and be baptized every one of 
you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, 
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost;" the Evan- 
gelist adds, ^' then they who gladly received his words, were 
baptized." 

This faith and baptism were effected in them by the hear- 
ing of the word by which Peter preached the Gospel ; as may 
well be explained by these texts of Scripture, where it is said, 
" Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken 
unto you." And again, " For their sakes, I sanctify myself 
that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither 
pray I for these alone, but for them also, which shall believe 
in me through their word." And it is to be considered, that 
though the Jews were generally baptized by John unto repent- 
ance ; yet they repented of their repentance, so far as after- 
ward to deny, reproach, vilify, and crucify the Lord and Christ 
of God. This cannot be understood of those Jews who had 
believed in Christ, in the days of his flesh, and publicly 
acknowledged him as the Messiah, by being baptized by his 
apostles in his name ; but of them who had not believed in 
Christ, notwithstanding their baptism by John, nor had 
brought forth fruits meet for repentance; but, as a generation 
of vipers, had blasphemed the Lord and giver of Life, sent of 
the Father, in eternal love and mercy to save them. It was 
therefore necessary that they should first believe in him, and 
repent again of all their sins ; especially of that great sin of 
denying and crucifying the Lord, before they could be bap- 
tized with the Holy Ghost, or know the sweet movings, ruq- 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 153 

nings, flowiugs, and divine consolations thereof in their hearts 
as the saved of the Lord. Again, John the Baptist was sent 
to the Jews only, and not to the Gentiles, with his baptism ; 
nor was Christ himself sent, in the flesh, to any others but 
the Jews; nor were the disciples of Christ sent, in that day; 
nor with any other baptism than John's water baptism ; nor 
was there ever any other water baptism instituted by Christ : 
Then it follows, that as John's baptism was to decrease, and 
Christ's to increase as soon as Christ's baptism commenced, 
obtained, and took effect, as a dispensation of life and salva- 
tion to them who believed, water baptism ceased, in point of 
obligation, and is effectually ended, though imitated by some 
in practice unto this day. 

But as the rites of the law of Moses were never incumbent 
upon the Gentiles, nor Christ sent unto them in the flesh, the 
mission of'the apostles unto them was of a divine and spiritual 
nature, a dispensation of light and life from God, through 
Jesus Christ, the Saviour of all nations under heaven ; so the 
baptism of Christ to them is likewise spiritual; not with 
elementary water, which cannot effect any more in time of the 
Gospel, than legal and outward institutions could in time of 
the law of Moses ; but with the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of 
Christ : whereby the mind being thereunto turned, and be- 
lieving therein, is inwardly taught and instructed in the things 
and knowledge of God, sanctified, justified, and eternally 
saved ; being thereby united, as in a covenant of divine love 
and life, unto him who sanctifies, and liveth for ever; and 
then because he liveth, we live also in him, and he in us, 
world without end. Amen. 

And as to that passage, where Peter commanded that Cor- 
nelius and his household should be baptized in the name of 
the Lord ; the case was this, he was sent only to tell them 
words whereby they were to be saved, and he preached unto 
them accordingly; in the conclusion whereof he said, that, 
through the name of Christ, whoever believeth in him shall 
receive remission of sins : " And as he began to speak, or 
while he yet spake the words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them 



154 T. story's conversations, etc. 

who heard the word, as on the apostles in the begianiog : 
Then Peter remembered the word of the Lord (with under- 
standing), how that he said, John indeed baptized with water, 
but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.'' 

Here it is remarkable : 1st. That no more is needful for the 
remission of sins, or to fit mankind for the baptism of the 
Holy Ghost, but belief in God, a good life, a charitable dis- 
position, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ : But I observe 
here, as in some other places in Scripture, a difference between 
the speech of the apostle and the word by which he did speak ; 
and that men may hear the one, and not the other; for the 
Holy Ghost fell on them only who heard the word : And Christ 
himself said to the Jews, Why do ye not understand my 
speech ? Even because ye cannot hear my word. 

2dly. That the coming of the Holy Ghost upon such as 
believe, is the baptism of the Holy Ghost ; and that neither 
Peter, nor the rest of the apostles, till that time (when Peter 
preached to Cornelius, &c.), understood the full meaning of 
Christ, when he commanded them " to go teach all nations, 
baptizing them ;" for till Peter's understanding was opened by 
the vision he had to that purpose, he did not know that the 
Gentiles, believing in Christ, were to be saved as well as the 
Jews. 

3dly. This further demonstrates, that where Christ said, 
^' Go teach all nations, baptizing them," this baptism is effected 
in preaching Christ by the power of the Holy Ghost, as in one 
and the same act ; '^ For as Peter began to speak, or while he 
yet spake, the Holy Ghost fell on them who heard the word," 
agreeable to some words in their general commission, that he 
that believeth, and is baptized, shall be saved: and, again, 
'' Ye shall have power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon 

you." 

4thly. Where the end is obtained, all means conducing to 
that end naturally cease, and cannot be any further needful to 
that purpose : Here Peter is sent to preach words unto Cor- 
nelius and his household, by which they should be saved ; he 
did preach, they believed, and the salvation of God, the saving 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 155 

power of the Holy Ghost, came upon them ; and, consequently, 
there could not be any need, as to them, of being baptized 
afterwards with water in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, 
seeing they were already baptized into the name, word, power, 
and life of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, by the Spirit of 
Christ, without using that form of words. 

5thly. Again, as to Peter's saying, " Can any man forbid 
water,'' &c., it is to be considered that the Jews were a people 
blindly zealous, aud obstinately tenacious of everything that 
once obtained with them, as well after they believed in Christ 
as before, many thousands of them being still zealous for their 
law, and water baptism, in the name of Jesus Christ, having 
been so lately accustomed to it ; and six of them from Joppa, 
being with Peter, and still remaining under their former pre- 
judices against the Gentiles, as if they were not to be regarded 
of God, or saved, were astonished, because they perceived that 
" on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy 
Ghost." And Peter, being but newly convinced himself, by a 
vision from God (notwithstanding the extent of the Gospel to 
all nations), that the Gentiles were to be saved; and those 
believing Jews, seeing the effects of the doctrine of Peter, but 
not yet knowing the purpose of God for the salvation of the 
Gentiles by Christ ; and lest these, and the rest of the belier- 
ing Jews, should think that Cornelius and his household, 
being Gentiles by nature, still wanted to be baptized with 
water in the name of the Lord Jesus, as they themselves had 
been, he said unto them, " Can any man forbid water, that 
these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy 
Ghost as well as we ? and he commanded them to be baptized 
in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry 
certain days.'' 

"Can any man forbid water?" Here Peter speaks cau- 
tiously and faintly; as if he had said, it is not prohibited, 
therefore, to prevent offences, it may be permitted. " And he 
commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord;" 
which shows still that he meant the same baptism they used 
in John's time, and not " into the name of the Father, Son, 



156 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

and Holy Ghost/' the terms used in the account by Matthew. 
And as baptism with water was no part of Peter's mission to 
Cornelius and his house, but only to preach unto them, neither 
did he, in all his defence and recital of the passage, so much 
as once mention this baptism, against those who accused him 
at Jerusalem, as if he had been in an error, and broken the 
law of Moses, or stated custom of the Jews, by going into the 
house of Cornelius and eating with them ; which still shows 
that neither Peter, nor any of those believers with him, nor 
those at Jerusalem, had any apprehension of the salvation of 
the Gentiles. And that although the Holy Ghost, the Spirit 
of Christ, leadeth into all Truth, yet not all at once, but 
gradually, as weak, ignorant, and scarce docile mankind are 
able to bear ; Nor were the apostles themselves opened at once 
into all the truths of the Gospel, lest they might publish them 
too soon, and unseasonably, unto the people, before they could 
understand or believe them ; and so offend rather than save 
them. 

Now, to conclude upon this head, though Peter did com- 
mand them to be baptized, not in the name of the Father, Son, 
and Holy Ghost (the terms of the baptism in Matthew), but 
in the name of the Lord ; yet it doth not appear to whom he 
gave that command; nor that Cornelius and his household, 
or any of them, were so baptized : for " Then prayed they him 
to tarry certain days ;" in which time they might deliberate, 
it being a new case, whether they should be so baptized or 
not ; and it is most probable they were not, seeing Peter, in 
his defence at Jerusalem, doth not so much as once mention 
anything of it. And, as to that instance at Ephesus, the 
Apostle Paul, finding some persons there under the character 
of disciples ; and not taking notice of any intermediate state or 
dispensation, between believing in Christ, and receiving the 
Holy Ghost, as the fruit and consequence of faith in Christ, 
asked them this question : ^' Have ye received the Holy Ghost 
since ye believed V To which they answered, '^ that they had 
not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.'' 
This answer seems to have surprised the apostle at their igno- 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 157 

ranee ; and he, having no other baptism in view but that of the 
Holy Ghost, replied, '^ Into what then were ye baptized ? and 
they said, Unto John's baptism," which demonstrates, that 
though they had been baptized of John, and directed to be- 
lieve in one to come after him, yet they had not hitherto 
believed in Christ, and consequently were wholly ignorant of the 
dispensation of his Holy Spirit; and therefore Paul preached 
Christ unto them, as the true and certain object of their 
faith, saying, " John verily baptized with the baptism of 
repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe 
on him who should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus /' 
declaring him openly to be the person of whom John had spoken 
obscurely. And when they heard this, *' they were baptized 
in the name of the Lord Jesus," not in the name of the Father, 
Son, and Holy Ghost : And this is a like phrase of speech with 
what is said before concerning Cornelius and his household at 
the preaching of Peter : " While he yet spake the words, the 
Holy Ghost fell on all them who heard the word." And yet 
here, the Apostle Paul, in the counsel of God, being directed 
to further means, after the manner of the law, laid his hands 
■upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them ; and then they 
were endued with some special gifts ', they spake with tongues 
and prophesied : they became ministers of the Gospel, as I 
understand it : But it doth not appear they were baptized with 
water, but being initiated into the grace of God by faith in 
Christ, through the ministry of the apostle, they received a 
greater degree by his laying on of hands. 

As to that instance, when the Samaritans believed Philip, 
the deacon, " preaching the things concerning the kingdom 
of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, 
both men and women." This was but the next year after 
Christ was crucified, and is of the like nature and import of 
that passage before, by the Apostle Paul at Ephesus : for 
when they believed Philip preaching, they were baptized, both 
men and women; which was about seven years before Peter 
preached to Cornelius and his household, as before observed : 
By faith in Christ they received an earnest of grace as a seed 
14 



158 T. story's conversations, etc. 

of divine life : They were initiated by tis doctrine into a sense 
of the beginning of the work of the Spirit, in order to their 
sanctification ; becoming thereby clean as the new bottles, pre- 
pared for the new wine of the kingdom of the Holy Ghost, in 
greater measure : For when the Apostles Peter and John had 
prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost, 
" they laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy 
Spirit,'' accordingly. 

But, in the mean time, between the preaching of Philip, 
and their receiving the Holy Ghost, they had been baptized 
in the name of the Lord Jesus (professing the true God with 
the Jews), as was also Simon Magus 3 in which several things 
are observable. ' 

1st. This baptism being only in the name of the Lord Jesus, 
was not that baptism declared in Matthew, which is in the 
name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, but the same they 
were in practice of in John's time, as before noted. 

2dly. That the apostles were the instrumental ministers and 
dispensers of the Holy Ghost unto others, his power and pre- 
sence being with them, and they co-working with him therein, 
under his own immediate counsel and direction, as in all other 
the parts and means of the salvation of mankind ; ^^ for with- 
out him they could do nothing." 

3dly. Simon Magus' s believing and being baptized, demon- 
strates, that a bare belief that Christ is the Messiah, or person 
of whom Moses and the prophets prophesied, neither sancti- 
fieth or qualifies for receiving the Holy Ghost, in a Gospel 
sense; but that men may be in a state of gross sin and un- 
cleanness notwithstanding : and therefore let all such superfi- 
cial believers beware ; for true faith is the gift of Gi^d, and 
comes into the heart by the operation of the Spirit of Christ ; 
which is the Holy Ghost, by which every minister of Christ 
preacheth the Gospel of the kingdom of God ; and sometimes 
by the immediate inward work of the Spirit without any in- 
strument. 

As to that instance of Philip's baptizing the Eunuch : it 
was very early in the year of Christ 34, the next year after 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY^ ETC. 159 

he suffered ; and as Philip preached Christ unto the Eunuch, 
in which, by the sequel, it is most probable he mentioned the 
baptism of John with water, and the same baptism practised 
by the disciples of Christ in his name ; and the Eunuch being 
but instantly convinced, and believing that Christ is the per- 
son the prophet wrote of, and what he had said of water bap- 
tism in his name, he therefore proposed to be baptized by 
Philip, who permitted it, but not until he had examined his 
sincere and full faith in Christ, and was satisfied in it, saying, 
^' If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest/^ And 
here it is remarkable that Philip did not say to the Eunuch, 
thou must be baptized, by way of necessity, but '' thou mayest," 
as by way of permission, not duty : and his faith was expressed 
in a few words, '^ I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of 
God." It is plain, then, that this was still the same water 
baptism begun by John indefinitely, without assigning any 
certain object of faith, and carried on for a time, in the name 
of Jesus Christ, as the object of the faith of all that come 
unto God by him ; through which faith, the believers being 
sanctified and prepared as clean vessels of honor unto God, 
they afterwards receive the baptism of Christ ; they are filled 
with the Holy Ghost ; of which we do not find that Philip 
said anything to the Eunuch. 

As to that instance concerning Saul, it is to be observed, 
that what Christ said unto Ananias of Saul was this, "Go 
thy way, for he is a chosen vessel unto me," &c., and what 
Ananias said unto Saul was only this, putting his hands upon 
him, " Brother Saul, the Lord (even Jesus that appeared unto 
thee by the way as thou camest) hath sent me, that thou 
mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales; 
and he received sight forthwith, and arose and was bap- 
tized." 

Now, here is not anything predicated of water baptism, nor 
anything like it in the action, nor the name of Jesus Christ 
used therein as was common in water baptism ; nor anything 
said by Ananias, as his mission from Christ, but that Saul 



160 T. story's conversations, etc. 

might receive his, sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 
It cannot, therefore, be reasonably understood to be water bap- 
tism, but the baptism of the Holy Ghost; for that only is pre- 
dicated in the mission of Ananias ; which was performed by 
laying on of his hands (in the immediate counsel and power 
of the Holy Ghost), being the means by which the Holy Ghost 
was often given in those days, but never used in baptizing with 
water only. Again, if this had been water baptism, the prin- 
cipal part of the mission, and the true end of it had remained 
unperformed ; for nothing is otherwise said of Saul's actually 
receiving the Holy Ghost, without which he could not perform 
the great end of his calling, " To bear the name of the Lord 
before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel ; or 
to suffer so great things (even death at last) for his name's 
sake." This, therefore, was not water baptism (which many 
have received with Simon Magus, and yet have been, and still 
remain, as great persecutors of Jesus, as Saul was before his 
conversion), but the baptism of Christ himself, by Ananias as 
his instrument, by his Holy Spirit. 

And as to that passage concerning Lydia; when the Apostle 
Paul and others had preached unto certain women by a river 
side, Lydia, who was before a worshipper of God (as Cornelius 
had been before he believed), and her household, were con- 
vinced by the ministry of that apostle, and were baptized ; but 
it is not said with water, or in any name : and where the Scrip- 
ture is not express, we may take it, and I think we ought, as 
in other cases of like import, and here conclude it was the 
baptism of Christ by the preaching of the Gospel only, in the 
power and wisdom of the Holy Ghost, by Paul as the instru- 
ment of it; or, if it might be supposed to be with water, it 
must be concluded to be the same in use from the beginning 
of John's time, and the same with his, and not from that in- 
stitution or declaration in Matt, xxviii. 19. 

And, as to that instance, where the gaoler and his house are 
said to have been baptized ; the passage is thus : At the 
preaching of Paul and Silas the foundation of the prison was 
shaken, and their bonds taken off, and the prison-doors opened 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 161 

by the mighty power of God ; upon which the gaoler said unto 
them, ' What must I do to be saved V Their answer was, 
Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, 
and thy house. (This was 53 years after the birth of Christ). 
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that 
were in his house ; and he was baptized, and all his house 
straightway, believing in God with all his house." 

It is here to be observed, that the apostles do not express 
any other conditions of salvation to them, but to believe on 
the Lord Jesus Christ, and say nothing of baptism on that 
account ; but as the apostles spake unto him and his family 
the word of the Lord (which could not be but by the power 
of the Holy Ghost), it is most probable that this baptism was 
the coming of the Holy Ghost at the same instant when the 
apostles preached ; for they were baptized straightway (before 
he brought them out of the place where they preached, into 
his house), which being a little after midnight, and in the 
prison, it is no way probable they were baptized with water ; 
but the fruits of their ministry were, that the gaoler and his 
house rejoiced, believing in God. But if there can be yet any 
room to think of water baptism here, it could be no other than 
the same the apostles practised in John's time; for as no name 
is mentioned wherein they were baptized, it is most reasonable 
to think it was in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, since 
he was proposed as the object of their faith by the apostles; 
and consequently was the same baptism which the disciples of 
Christ used in John's time, and not any new institution 
mentioned by Matthew ; which was not in the name of the 
Lord Jesus only, but in the name (virtue and power) of the 
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; that is to say, both into the 
holy humanity, or human nature of Christ, who never fell, and 
into his divine nature likewise by the Holy Spirit, which par- 
taketh of both; which no outward water, in what manner, or 
by what administrator soever applied, can possibly effect (being 
altogether an inward, spiritual, and invisible work of Christ 
upon the heart and mind), no more than the blood of bulls 
and goats could purify the conscience, or take away sin. 
14* 



162 T. story's conversations, etc. 

And as to those Corintliiaiis mentioned in the Acts of the 
Apostles, Paul, reasoning or disputing in the synagogue every 
Sabbath, persuaded the Jews and the Greeks, and testified to 
the Jews that Jesus was Christ ; but being opposed by the 
Jews, he went to the Gentiles : Yet Crispus, the chief ruler 
of the synagogue, with all his house, and many of the Corin- 
thians, hearing the apostles, believed in Christ, and were bap- 
tized. And what baptism this wasj appears by the first Epistle 
of Paul to the Corinthians, about five years after; where, 
though he directed his Epistle "unto the Church of God 
which was at Corinth (and more particularly to the most 
worthy among them), to them who were sanctified in Christ 
Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place called 
upon the name of Jesus Christ,'^ &c., yet, in the sequel of 
his Epistle, he calls them babes and carnal, not able at that 
time to bear, or understand the spirituality of the doctrine of 
the apostles concerning God and Christ the Lord : which 
shows, that many of them, if not the greatest part, had not 
been baptized with the Holy Ghost; though they had so far 
believed in Christ as that he is the Messiah (and were like 
the Samaritans before they received the Holy Ghost), having 
been baptized with water only, the same continuing in prac- 
tice from John's time, and being the same, and not by the 
Spirit, which supersedes it; not in the name, nature, virtue, 
and power of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, but in the 
name of Jesus Christ, or the Lord, only ; and many of them 
by Paul, who ingenuously confesseth that he had no authority 
from Christ (as I have said before), for so doing ; nor do we 
find that any other had, though they mention several minis- 
ters as instruments of their faith, about whom, and other 
matters, they were divided, envying and striving one against 
another; and would have had the apostles and ministers of 
Christ, as so many sect masters over them, as all the carnally 
minded and unconverted professors of Christ do at this day ; 
which demonstrates, that neither those of the Corinthians, nor 
those at this day, either were, or are, baptized with the Holy 
Ghost. 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 163 

But when the Church and churches, were further advanced 
and grown in the knowledge of God, and of our Lord Jesus 
Christ, and more capable of the doctrines of the Gospel, and 
spirituality of them, and the apostles themselves further 
opened and instructed therein by the Spirit of Christ, they 
were now more explicit and plain in this doctrine of baptism, 
than at first, as well as others : For though there had been 
divers intermediate baptisms, before that of John's, under 
various dispensations, they all concentered in one at last; 
where the Apostle saith, " There is one body, and one Spirit, 
even as ye are called in one hope of your calling ; one Lord, 
one faith, and one baptism; one God and Father of all, who 
is above all, and through all, and in you all : For as the body 
is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that 
one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ : For by 
one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be 
Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free, and have heen 
all made to drink into one Spirit; for the body is not one 
member, but many. And Christ is given of the Father to be 
the head of all things to the Church, which is his body, the 
fulness of him who filleth all in all.''^ 

And the same apostle considers water baptism as of a legal, 
original nature, and ranks it among the typical rites of the 
law, saying, " In him (Christ) dwelleth all the fulness of the 
Godhead bodily, and ye are complete in him, who is the head 
of all principality and power; in whom also ye are circum- 
cised, with the circumcision made without hands, in putting 
off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of 
Christ. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also you are 
risen with him, through the faith of the operation of God, 
who hath raised him from the dead, &c. Let no man there- 
fore judge you in meat or drink, or in respect of an holy day, 
or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days (or, say I, by a 
parity of truth, and of the reason of things, of water bap- 
tism), which are a shadow of things to come, but the body 
(or substance) is of Christ, &c. Wherefore, if ye be dead 
with Christ from the rudiments (or elements) of the world; 



164 T. story's conversations, etc. 

why, as thougli living ia the world, are ye subject to ordi- 
nances ? Touch not, taste not, handle not (which all are to 
perish with the using), after the commandments and doctrines 
of men/' &c. 

Again, the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Christ hath ef- 
fects following it, which no other baptism ever had, hath, or 
can have : that is to say, those who happily obtain it through 
faith in that Holy Spirit, by which alone it can be adminis- 
tered, " are dead unto sin, and walk in newness of life,'' and 
thenceforth do not serve sin. And ^^ as many of you as have 
been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ." The old 
man, in such, is crucified, and the body of sin destroyed ; and 
therefore they do not serve sin, being freed from it as if they 
were naturally dead ; and that as certainly as Christ died, and 
as fully as he rose again from the dead. And therefore con- 
sider, priest and people, what all your washings, sprink- 
lings, touchings, tastings, eatings, drinkings, sabbaths, holy 
days, and others your carnal ordinances and rites, have done 
for you, lest, notwithstanding all these, you die in your sins, 
and then he who is Truth hath said, '' If ye believe not that 
I am he, ye shall die in your sins ; and whither I go ye cannot 
come." And though the Almighty Father of the universe 
hath sent his eternal Son as a divine light into all the world, 
according to his promise, I doubt ye do not, as such, believe 
in him, or, by faith, receive, obey, and follow him, as the im- 
mediate object and conductor' of your minds; and if you die 
in that state of unbelief and disobedience, the consequence, 
you may see, is dreadful. 

Now, having set forth what was the practice of the apostles 
of Christ concerning water baptism, and the true foundation 
of it; and that there was no new institution of any other 
water baptism by Christ, at the time mentioned by Matthew, 
or anywhere else, but that the Lord speaks there of the bap- 
tism of the Spirit only ; I now proceed to take notice of what 
your minister hath said, that all ages, since the days of the 
apostles, have been in the practice of water baptism, which 
declares they have ever so understood it, from that age until 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 1G5 

now. This is a fallacious position, adduced as a foundation 
for a wrong inference and conclusion ; whether wilfully to im- 
pose upon you and me, and continue and confirm you in error ; 
or ignorantly, as knowing no better, I shall not determine : 
for water baptism hath not been so practised, but was early 
laid aside and neglected ; and another thing, which is no bap- 
tism, introduced, practised, and continued, instead, of both it 
and the baptism of the Holy Ghost : so that they have indeed 
had no baptism at all. For there is no account of infant bap- 
tism in all the Holy Scriptures, that it was ever instituted by 
Christ, or practised by any of the apostles ; but was pretended, 
by its inventors and imposers, long after the time of the apos- 
tles, to have been an apostolical tradition from about the 
seventieth year of the first century ; and as the true Church 
became more and more obscured, by the dark inventions of 
antichristian professors and pretenders to Christianity, the 
worldly-minded and learned among them introduced many 
errors into the Christian profession, quite opposite and incon- 
sistent with the nature of it, and infant baptism among the 
rest ; which the worldly-wise first talked and disputed among 
themselves : and then as the poor dark people were gradually 
prepared to receive those errors, the inventors thereof pub- 
licly preached them up as proper and necessary, until their 
party became numerous, and of sufficient power to impose 
them even on such as did see those errors, and rejected them; 
which was not done till about the beginning of the fourth 
century; when at a council held at Melevitan, original sin, 
baptizing children, and other matters were moved and hotly 
debated among the worldly-wise and humanly learned of that 
age (who are always the disturbers, distemper, and fever of 
the Church), it was determined by ninety-two of them only, 
in these terms, "It is our will, that all who affirm that 
young children receive everlasting life, albeit they be not, by* 
the sacrament of grace, or baptism, renewed ; and that will 
not that young children, which are new-born from their 
mother's womb, shall be baptized, to the taking away original 
sin, that they be anathematized :" that is, accursed. Which, 



16G T. story's conversations, etc. 

in another like council at Carthage, in the year 416, was con- 
firmed in these words (as they are translated into English, in 
Henry D'Anvers's Treatise of Baptism, second edition, page 
106), " We will, that whoever deny that little children, by 
baptism, are freed from perdition, and eternally saved, that 
they be accursed.'^ 

Now, people, here is the mere will of an ignorant cursing 
club, of who knows who, calling themselves a general council, 
and representatives of the whole Church of Christ, acting 
under manifest errors about original sin, as if it affected the 
eternal state of all infants ; and that they, by their own con- 
trivance, could prevent it and save them; introducing and 
establishing, by their own authority, a false doctrine and prac- 
tice ; calling it an ordinance of Christ, though foreign, and a 
stranger and strangers to the Holy Scriptures, both as to doc- 
trine and practice ; without any foundation but the mere will 
and pleasure of a majority only of this cursing company; 
whose behavior and language herein clearly demonstrates, that 
the counsel of Christ did not preside there : But their decree 
being afterward confirmed by the Bishop of Eome (who had, 
by this time, assumed great authority and power), the errors 
took place so long ago, and have continued among them, and 
their successors, ever since (but not in the Church of Christ) ; 
with this alteration, that though, for some time, they baptized 
the children, yet, finding some inconvenience in that manner 
of doing it, they altered it to rantizing or sprinkling, though 
many, in the most early times of those innovations, and 
through all ages, have opposed them in this, as well as in 
many other errors : For which those witnesses to the truth 
have, from generation to generation been martyred and de- 
stroyed, by that wilful, cursing, antichristian hierarchy, and 
their successors; and still are unto this day, in one part or 
'Other of the world. 

This being a true state of the case, upon what rotten anti- 
christian foundation the practice, not of baptism, but rantism, 
is erected and established ; not washing or dipping in water, 
but sprinkling, and that only the face ; not of all ages since 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 167 

the days of the apostles, but thus begun in the fourth cen- 
tury, not by the pure Church of Christ; which, under him, 
and in his counsel, is the ground and pillar of Truth; but 
by a degenerate, apostatized company of antichrists ; by whose 
doings, and establishments in their own wills, the succeeding 
ages have been imposed upon, and many still are until now : 
and therefore, this practice, thus founded, is no proof at all 
for the support of sprinkling of infants, or baptizing in water 
at this day, nor are we breakers of any ordinance or command 
of Christ on that account. 

The priest gave many unmannerly interruptions during this 
time; but was sometimes reproved by the justices, especially 
by Captain Basset, who had great sway among them, though 
one of the youngest men among them, but of good temper and 
understanding. His reasons for interrupting me (he said) 
were these : '^ That if he did not answer things as they were 
moved, he would forget great part of them, and so they might 
pass unanswered, and take with the people." However, I 
came at length to inform the people how this error of sprink- 
ling came to take place in New England ; viz., By the coming 
over of some of the ancient Puritans, Independents, and 
Presbyterians, into that country, not then, in that point, fully 
reformed from the Church of Borne, the original and main- 
tainer of that pernicious error; by whom it was continued. 
And seeing sprinkling is no baptism, you have none at all, but 
an old invention and relict of the Church of Bome. Wherefore 
I exhort you to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of 
God, that you may be baptized of him, and saved ; since he 
himself hath said, as on Holy Becord, " He that believeth and 
is baptized, shall be saved ; but he that believeth not, shall be 
damned." 

The priest stormed much at this, saying to a Friend as I 
was speaking, '' See how smooth he goes, and makes all look 
as even as he pleases ; let him alone, and the people will take 
all this for granted," and then arose violently from his seat and 
interrupted me, so that I could not finish that part as I in- 



168 T. story's conversations, etc. 

tended : And yet I thought much of what I had said remained 
with the more intelligent sort of the people. 

Then said the priest, '' I dare appeal to yourself, if you 
know anything of the Greek language, whether the Greek 
word there translated baptize, doth not signify to wash with 
water.' ^ If so, said I, it is against thee ; for thou dost not 
wash infants, but sprinkle them, or pour water upon them. 
But as to the Greek, though I do not profess to be learned in 
that language, yet I think I have acquired a competent know- 
ledge of it so far as the point in question is concerned therein. 
The word baptism is a Greek word anglified. In the Greek 
it is ^anrtaixa, which comes of the word ISaTtroj, which in 
Latin is MergOy quasi in mare ago^ vel in aquam eo, to 
drown or sink in water, to dip, to overwhelm, to plunge, to 
thrust in, to go into water, to dive, to baptize, to wash. And 
e/a/SaTTTo comes of fiaTtrw, intingo, and is much the same with 
^aTtn^ui ; and also signifies to dip into, to steep, or to infuse, 
to dye, or color, or to intincture, or, as it were, to impreg- 
nate one thing with the nature of another, or with its acci- 
dents ; and therefore a proper word whereby to signify baptism 
with or in the Spirit, as well, or rather than in water. And 
though the word ^antL^a) sometimes in authors signifies to 
sprinkle, yet I have never found it in Scripture to signify 
sprinkling, but always dipping, going into, or overwhelming 
in water. And seeing Christ himself saith, that '^ He that is 
washed needeth not, save to wash his feet, but is clean every 
whit," it is most probable, that, considering the multitudes 
baptized by John, and other circumstances, going into the 
water and having their feet washed, was the most proper and 
true form used in that day : But baptism having been generally 
(though not universally) laid aside, and sprinkling introduced 
and imposed, as I have already said; those pious reformers 
from the Church of Borne and her manifold errors, taking the 
word baptize to signify to overwhelm or plunge ; and, compar- 
ing it with that Scripture, where it is said, '■^ We are buried 
with him (Christ) by baptism into death," might reasonably 
enough fall into that manner of baptizing, as those called 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 169 

Baptists now use, since neither in those days, nor hitherto, 
they saw, or do see, that all water baptism, in every mode, is 
effectually ended, in point of obligation, by the manifestation 
and establishment of the baptism into the Holy Spirit, the 
eternal and permanent substance. 

Again, as washing is a different thing from sprinkling, and 
a different way of applying water (or other fluids) to various 
purposes, is needful, so the Greeks, as well as we, had different 
words whereby to express those several acts, applications, or 
things done with water, or other liquid or fluid ; and the word 
baptize is commonly applied to washing, &c. (as I have said 
before), water being the common instrument of it among man- 
kind. But there are several other things wherewith washing 
and cleansing may be performed ; and therefore the word 
baptize, signifying to wash, is most proper and indefinitely 
used, as not implying water necessarily or only: For the Spirit 
of Christ, by which his baptism is performed, is expressly 
called "living water" by Christ himself. And the Almighty 
is pleased to call himself " the fountain of living waters." And 
there is a baptism or washing (cleansing) with fire. And there 
is a washing in the blood of the Lamb of Grod. All which are 
no other than one and the same thing, expressed in various 
terms and phrases ; that is, the baptism of the Holy Spirit of 
Christ, and nothing else. 

And as to the word pavn^oj or pacxu, it signifies in Latin, 
aspergo ; to sprinkle, wet, or moisten, to mix finely, to men- 
tion briefly, to interlace, to powder, to infect. And though the 
word ^a--'Xoi is taken sometimes, as I have said, for sprin- 
kling, it is never so applied in Scripture, that I can find ; but 
whenever the thing sprinkling is intended to be expressed the 
word poyT'.%(o, in its various moods and tenses, is always used, 
as being the proper Greek word for sprinkling; and not 
€a-zit<o, which signifies dipping. 

In Heb. ix. 19, it is ippwyzcqe. Heb. x. 22, Chap. xii. 24, 

and 1 Pet. i. 2, it is payrt^/xo'^ dtparo^ Ir^rni Xpt^n, nspersionem 

sanguinis Jesn Chrisfi^ and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus 

Christ. And. Heb. ix. lo, pr/yr'/^yaa.] and, chap. ix. 21, 

15 



170 T. story's conversations, etc. 

ippd'y'TtcFs, aspersit, lie sprinkled. By all which, as by many 
other places, both in the Old Testament and in the New, it is 
evident, that though the word, ^avixiGw, by some is held to 
signify, to sprinkle, as well as pavrtacD (by which they would 
serve their own perverse turn and mercenary ends, and make 
sprinkling and baptizing to be the same) ; that it never can 
be so, unless they can change the nature and order of things. 

And now, to sum up the whole matter on this head, and 
justly apologize further for our omitting water baptism : As 
the Apostle Paul was, in a particular manner, sent by the com- 
mand of Christ from heaven, to preach the Gospel and kingdom 
of God to the Gentiles, and yet not sent by him to baptize 
(much less to rantize) them with water; and as his ministry 
was effectual, to all the great ends of the Gospel, without it; 
so we likewise have a degree of the ministration of the same 
Gospel (for there is not another) committed unto us, by the 
Spirit of Christ (who is the same now as then) to the off- 
spring of the Gentiles, though we have no authority from the 
Lord, either to baptize or rantize any with elementary water; 
and therefore do not practise it in any mode, lest it should be 
said unto us by the Lord at last, " Who hath required it at 
your hands ?'^ And that 'Hhey ran, and I sent them not: 
teaching for doctrine the tradition of men )" making the doc- 
trines and baptism of Christ of none effect to this generation, 
as the Scribes and Pharisees of old unto that, by their own 
inventions and traditions ; and not profiting the people at all 
thereby, but destroying them : and therefore we are not 
breakers of the command of Christ on that account, as here 
falsely charged upon us, this day, by this your teacher, as 
often likewise by others such as he is. 

To all this my opponent made no reply, but began to main- 
tain his charge as well as he could, ^' That the Scriptures of 
the Old and New Testament are the ground of faith and the 
rule of life.^' He attempted first to prove that the Scriptures 
are the word of God ; and that, as such, they are the ground 
of faith, and rule of life, thus : ^' Christ reproving the Scribes 
and Pharisees concerning their traditions, told them, ' they had 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 171 

made the word of God of none effect thereby ;' and seeing he 
here expressly calls the Scriptures * the word of Grod/ con- 
sequently they must be the ground of faith and rule of life." 

To which I answered, That the particular subject there 
treated of is the fifth commandment, not the Scriptures; 
where the Lord Christ chargeth them with laying aside the 
commandment of God, and giving contrary commandments 
of their own ; rejecting th'e commandment of God that they 
might keep their own tradition : So that what is called the 
word of God in the 13th verse of that chapter is the fifth 
commandment, and not the Scriptures : And the Evangelist 
Matthew, writing of the same passage, calls it the command- 
ment all along throughout the chapter, and never calls it the 
word of God ; nor doth the Scripture anywhere call itself the 
word of God ; but gives that title, justly, properly, and only to 
Christ in his spiritual appearance, both in the Old and New 
Testament : First in the Old, where it is written, '^ For this 
commandment, which I command thee this day, it is not hidden 
from thee, neither is it far off, &c., but the word is very nigh 
unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy hearty that thou mayest 
do it." 

This was not any of the ten commandments written on 
tables of stone (though indeed the root of all the command- 
ments of God), nor was there much of the Scripture then 
written ; but this was the Spirit of Christ before his incarna- 
tion; of whom Peter testifies, that he was in the prophets, 
and testified beforehand his sufferings (in the flesh, and that 
many hundred years before his manifestation therein), and the 
glory that should follow : Of whom the Apostle Paul likewise 
bears testimony in these words, '' The righteousness which is 
of faith speaketh on this wise. Say not in thine heart. Who shall 
ascend into heaven (that is, to bring Christ down from above) ? 
or Who shall descend into the deep (that is, to bring up Christ 
again from the dead) ? but what saith it ? The word is nigh 
thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart ; that is the word 
of faith which we preach." And the word, we, in this place, 
shows, that it was not the testimony of that apostle only, but 
likewise of all the rest of the apostles and ministers of Christ 



372 T. story's conversations, etc. 

ia Aat day, that Christ himself is the only wonl of the Father 
essentially; and there is not another. 

Again the Evangelist John testifies of Christ after this 
manner, '^ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was 
with God, and the Word was Grod. All things were made by 
him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and 
the world knew him not. And the Word was made flesh, 
and dwelt among us," &c. Now these things cannot be truly 
(or with any sense) said of the Scriptures ; for the Spirit of 
Christ is not the Scriptures, though they testify of him : The 
Scriptures never ascended into heaven, neither did they de- 
scend into the deep and rise again : Neither is the Scripture 
the word of faith; neither were they in the beginning; nor 
are they Grod ; nor was anything at all made by them : But 
all things were made some thousands of years before there 
were any Scriptures in the world ; which was not (any now 
extant) until the days of Moses, who writ but a small part of 
them : Nor do the world now know God, or the word of God, 
by the Scriptures; nor were they ever made flesh : They are 
not therefore the word of God, and consequently, not that 
rule, by your minister's own way of reasoning; but as the 
Apostle Peter testifies, " that no prophecy of the Scripture is 
of any private interpretation : for the prophecy came not ia 
old time^ by the will of man ; but holy men of God spake as 
they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 

And concerning those Scriptures which Peter speaks of (the 
Scriptures of the New Testament not being then written), the 
Lord Jesus said to the Jews, who had them, though they did 
not understand them, or know him by them, "Ye have not his 
(the Father's) word abiding in yon ; for whom he hath sent, 
him ye believe not. Search the Scriptures, for in them ye 
think ye have eternal life ; and they are they which testify of 
me; and ye will not come to me that ye may have life." Here 
Christ, the word of God, is again distinguished from the 
Scriptures; they are not that word, but bear testimony of 
him : And so do the Scriptures of both Testaments still, and 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY; ETC. 173 

will througli ages to come : But I beseech you, be you also 
aware, lest, while you seem to magnify the Scriptures, as the 
Jews did, you likewise fall into the like errors, and they be- 
come of none effect also unto you, through your own vain 
inventions and traditions, and fall short of eternal life, as they 
did, through a wilful neglect of the manifestations, admoni- 
tions, and operations of the Spirit of Christ, the word of God, 
in your own hearts ; the grace of God given unto you, in you 
as a free and constant teacher in the way of truth and salva- 
tion ; and lest you be found of the number of those at last of 
whom it is prophesied in the Holy Scriptures, where it is said, 
" The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, 
but, after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers 
having itching ears : And they shall turn away their ears from 
the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.'' 

Then I said to the people, I was willing to carry the subject 
and argument this length for your information, because I fully 
desire the welfare and salvation of every one of you; but your 
teacher, unaware, gave up his own cause in his own way of 
reasoning : for upon a wrong supposition, that the Scripture 
is the word of God, he grounded his position, ^'that it is the 
ground of faith and rule of life;" whereas the Scripture itself 
saith, '^ faith is the gift of God," and, consequently, not 
acquired by reading or hearing the Scriptures; which the 
Jews had, and highly esteemed, as much as you can do, and 
yet did not, by all the evidence of them, believe in Christ, the 
Saviour of the world. 

I shall now invert this assertion, and establish the point 
contrary to his doctrine, in a few words, and say, that what, 
or whoever is the word of God, the same is the ground of 
faith, and rule of life : But the Lord Jesus Christ, and not 
the Scriptures, is the word of God, in whom dwells all the 
fulness of the Godhead substantially : He is the wisdom and 
power of the Father, and therefore is the ground of faith, the 
faith of the operation of God by him, and the rule and ruler 
of that life, which himself is the author and giver of. 

Then I informed the people, that we ever had a great esteem 
15^ 



174 T. story's conversations^ etc. 

of the Scriptures, as believiDg them to be given by divine 
inspiration (the priest having, in our discourse, urged that 
passage where it is said, ^' The Scripture is able to make thee 
wise unto salvation;" leaving out, "through faith in Christ 
Jesus,'' which is the main point), but make wise only through 
faith in Christ : so that faith must go before ; and the apostles 
had believed before their understandings were opened to know 
the Scriptures. 

My opponent gave me several interruptions during this 
time; yet I am persuaded divers of the people understood, 
and received in their minds the truth of much of what I 
delivered- The dispute held about seven hours, and by this 
time it was near sunset; so that we adjourned to Captain 
Basset's house, to which we were invited ; where we had some 
more discourse about the call to the ministry, and their main- 
tenance, wherein the priest said, " that Christ's ministers had 
a command from him, in Matt, xxviii. 19, to teach and baptize 
all nations." 

I replied, that command was not to any others but the 
apostles in that day; and the call to the ministry, and qualifi- 
cations of the ministers of Christ, is a new work of the Holy 
Spirit of Christ, in all ages of the world from that time, and 
ever will be ; and never can be by tradition or imitation, how 
nicely soever counterfeited : and if he had no other foundation 
for his ministry than that, he had none at all in a Gos- 
pel sense : But seeing he had alleged that text for his 
ministry, and a command thereby from Christ, to teach and 
baptize all nations, he seemed to be greatly deficient in his 
obedience and performance; since, I perceived, he had been 
long in that place, if not all the time of his ministry, and had 
not travelled through, or in any one nation on that account, 
and taught but a few, nor baptized any at all; for sprinkling 
of infants is no baptism. 

Then he turned the question upon me, and asked, " if I had 
been in any nation, but one, on that account in our way ?" To 
which I answered, that question is not so proper to me on that 
subject, seeing I do not pretend to have had my ministry from 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 175 

that command, but by the immediate work and manifestation 
of the Spirit of Christ in me; being opened, drawn, led, 
directed, and governed thereby in the love of it, in my 
ministry, from time to time, and place to place, as it pleaseth 
him, and not in my own time and will ; and yet not confined or 
limited to any, or restrained : Nevertheless, to answer thy 
question directly, I have travelled through most parts of Eng- 
land, Scotland, Ireland, and many colonies of America, in the 
service of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Gospel, and that 
freely, and without charge to any, save to eat and drink, in the 
course of my travels, such things as were freely set before me, 
by such as received my ministry in the same love of Christ in 
the Gospel, in which I have travelled and labored; which is 
the way of our ministers in general everywhere : But 1 have 
not baptized any with water ; for Christ sent me not to baptize 
that way, but to preach the Gospel according to the measure 
given me : adding that a maintenance in a particular settled 
place, as I reasonably could suppose, might be all he aimed at 
by his ministry. 

He replied, " he was, according to the advice of the Apostle 
Paul, to give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine; 
to meditate upon these things, to give himself wholly up to 
them, that his profiting might appear to all ; which he could 
not do without a reasonable subsistence.'^ 

To this I answered, these Scriptures and advice belong to a 
minister of Christ, as Timothy was ; but they are nothing to 
such as are not in Timothy's condition : and thou hast 
omitted to mention the main point there exhorted to ; that is, 
" Neglect not the gift that is in thee," &c., without which all 
thy ministry will be dead, and thy reading of no value to the 
end of a Gospel ministry : For the apostle doth not there write 
of the studies of our '' modern masters of arts,'^ as they call 
themselves, as appears by these words, " 0, Timothy, keep 
that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and 
vain babblings, and opposition of science, falsely so called; 
which some professing have erred concerning the faith" (for 
my opponent had, in the meeting-house^ talked of syllogisms, 



176 T. story's conversations, etc. 

and such like learning) ; but tlie particular things Timothy 
was to study, were these (though he was but a young man), 
'' To be an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, 
in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity ; to take heed unto him- 
self, and unto his doctrine, to continue in them,^' &c. And 
that reading must relate most, if not only, to the Holy Scrip- 
tures, since he excludes such science : and, in his next Epistle, 
knowing that without the opening of the gift of the Spirit of 
Christ reading of the Scriptures would not be rightly profit- 
able or understood, he exhorts Timothy, ^^ that he stir up the 
gift of God which was in him;" and, afterwards, further 
exhorts him, to continue in the things which he had learned, 
and had been assured of, knowing of whom he had learned 
them : and that from a child he had known the Holy Scrip- 
tures, which were able to make him wise unto salvation, 
through faith which is in Christ Jesus (which faith is the 
gift of God, and not acquired by reading). " All Scripture is 
given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for 
reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that 
the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all 
good works." But all this is attained by believing in, and 
adhering to the gift of God, and the work of it within, and 
not otherwise ; and therefore I exhort thee, and all these people, 
to believe in the grace of God in yourselves respectively, that 
you may all be taught and perfected thereby, and finally saved, 
which I heartily pray unto God for every one of you. 

And^ as the Apostle Paul saith, concerning himself and his 
ministry, •' Though I preach the Gospel, I have nothing to 
glory of, for necessity is laid upon me ; yea, wo is unto me if 
I preach not the Gospel : For if I do this thing willingly, I 
have a reward ; but if against my will, a dispensation of the 
Gospel is committed unto me : What is my reward then ? 
Yerily, that when I preach the Gospel, I may make the Gospel 
of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the 
Gospel :" and accordingly '^ he dwelt two whole years in his 
own hired house, and received all that came in unto him," and 
appealed to the Church at Ephesus, that he had coveted.no 



A HOLY LIFE, THE MINISTRY, ETC. 177 

man's silver or gold, or apparel; yea, yourselves know, that 
these hands have ministered to my necessities, and to them 
that were with me. I have showed jou all things, how, that 
so laboring, ye ought to support the weak ; and to remember 
the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, " It is more blessed 
to give than to receive." 

Thus the apostle exercised his ministry in its full extent, 
and, no doubt, had done all those things himself to which he 
exhorted Timothy : So that an honest employ to live by, that 
the Gospel may not be chargeable, is very consistent with it. 
And as to the words " wholly to them,'' in his said Epistle to 
Timothy, it can mean no more than that he should not neglect 
any time to do these things in every opportunity ; the gift 
there spoken of being fully suflBcient of itself to everything 
there exhorted unto, save only reading ; which might well be 
done, without any hinderance to a necessary bodily labor, for his 
own maintenance at least. But in all this we do not find any- 
thing of bargain and sale of the mere dead letter of the book ; 
which, without the life of him who first gave it forth, killeth ; 
or any human and false glosses thereon, in the will and natural 
abilities of man, sold at a dear rate to the people for Gospel, 
which it is not ; nor any mercenary preliminaries settled before- 
hand, as conditions of preaching those fallacious medleys for 
Gospel ; or of any security to be given for the performance of 
such blind bargains ; nor of procuring or making human laws, 
by the violence whereof to extort them, and from such too as 
are neither parties nor privies to such works ; nor is there any- 
thing in those, or other Scriptures, of any contributions pre- 
viously settled, and without which no preachment ; according to 
the proverb, " No penny, no pater noster.'^ There is nothing 
of all this, nor of the nature and tendency of it, in all the 
Holy Scriptures or Gospel of the Lord Jesus. 

This nettled my antagonist much ; and, at the conclusion of 
it, I took paper, and gave him in writing what I had affirmed 
and maintained before, viz. : 

That a state of perfect freedom from sin is, through the 
grace of God, attainable in this life. 



178 T. story's conversations, etc. 

And likewise of what he -had asserted; viz., ''That the 
Quakers held lying and damnable principles; and that the 
Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the ground of 
faith and rule of life :" telling him, before the chiefs of the 
people still remaining with us, that I had, in the meeting- 
house, sufficiently proved my position, but he had failed in 
his; and therefore left them upon him as false assertions, till 
he had (if he could do it) proved them in writing, since he 
had in conference given me so many rude interruptions ; and 
then he might expect an answer, either a refutation or acknow- 
ledgment : for the latter whereof I see no cause, nor ever shall, 
I am well assured. And thus this long contest ended for that 
time, but without any personal rancor, I believe, on either 
side. 



SALVATION OF INFANTS, ETC. 179 



CHAPTER XXIII. 
A YOUNa MAN AT SCITUATE. 

1704. 

SALVATION OF INFANTS, ETC. 

On the 27th of the Second month I had a meeting appointed 
at Scituate ; where came occasionally a young man from Con- 
necticut, who took some exceptions against what I said in the 
meeting, about infants, and their salvation by Christ, and about 
baptism ; and as we rode towards Edward Wanton's one told 
me of it ; and I desired the same person to tell the young man 
(being a Presbyterian or Independent), that if he pleased to 
go to the house of our Friend with us, I would endeavor to 
satisfy him ; and he did so. There I told him, I understood 
he was not satisfied with something I had said in the meeting 
concerning infants ; and therefore asked him, what he believed 
concerning them ? 

He said, '' he believed they were all damned, who died un- 
baptized.'^ Then I asked him, if he believed all of them were 
saved that were baptized, as he called it ? He answered, ^^ No/' 
What, then, said I, makes the difference ? Then, after a pause 
of silence, he replied, " They were all damned, and that many 
millions of them, not a span long, were hanging in hell/' I 
asked him why he thought so ? He answered, " Because they 
cannot believe in Christ/' I replied, neither can they commit 
sin ; not can they believe who are baptized and saved, as thy 
first answer implies, though thou hast receded from it since. 
Then said he, "they sinned in Adam." I answered, that "as 
in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall (the same) all be made 
alive." But said he, again, " they cannot believe in Christ." 



180 T. story's conversations, etc. 

Then, said I, dost thou not believe that many ages and nations 
of people fell under some disadvantages by Adam's sin, who 
never heard of him outwardly ? He said, ^' Yes." Then, said 
I, why may not they, through the boundless mercy and good- 
ness of God, manifested by Christ, have the advantage by the 
death and works of Christ, who never heard of him out- 
wardly ? To this he was silent ; though in one part of the dis- 
course he said " he believed there were millions of children 
hanging in hell not a span long :" And then I went on and 
preached to the auditory (some others being present), that 
" where there is no law, there is no transgression j" and little 
children being incapable of any law but that of nature, which 
they cannot break, consequently they cannot sin : and that 
though for some time under the law, and first covenant with 
the Jews (1491 years before Christ), the sins of the fathers 
were to be visited upon the children, not for ever, but only 
unto the third and fourth generation ; not such as loved God, 
but such as hated him ; upon which a proverb arose among 
the people, that " the fathers have ate a sour grape, and the 
children's teeth are set on edge:" But this proverb was to 
cease, and was annulled of God, as by the testimony of two 
of his great prophets, by whom it is written, in the name of 
the Lord : First, by Jeremiah (606 years before Christ), who 
saith, " In those days they shall say no more. The fathers have 
eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge ; 
but every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man that 
eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge." And 
this was to be under the niew covenant, come by the Lord Jesus 
Christ, now in force. Secondly, by Ezekiel (about 112 years 
after), who hath it much more at large, thus : " What mean 
ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, say- 
ing. The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's 
teeth are set on edge ? As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall 
not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel : Be- 
hold all the souls are mine, as the soul of the father, so also 
the soul of the son is niine, the soul that sinneth, it shall die." 
And there are many conditions in this eighteenth chapter of 



SALVATION OF INFANTS, ETC. 181 

Ezekiel respecting the life and death of the righteous .and 
wicked, and the changes which may happen to both, from 
state to state, by their own acts, or omissions of known duties, 
from which, in the nature of persons and things, little child- 
ren, as such, are exempted; and the Lord Jesus Christ, the 
Mediator of the new covenant (by which the first is ended), 
hath suffered for them, with all mankind, and declared them 
innocent, by taking them in his arms, blessing them, and say- 
ing, that ''of such is the kingdom of heaven," And the 
apostle saith, that sin was in the world before the law, but 
it was not imputed : so that, though there be a seed of sin in 
children, which in time may spring up, unto which, if they 
join by any sinful act, as mankind too commonly and univer- 
sally do, they are thereby brought under the law, or power of 
sin ; not by the transgression of Adam, the common father of 
all after the flesh, but by their own, as Adam was ; yet until 
children be capable of the knowledge of good and evil, by the 
law of the new covenant of light and grace, sin is not imputed, 
and there being nothing to condemn them until they have sin- 
ned, consequently they are all saved ; and therefore sprinkling 
them under these bare words, " Father, Son, and Holy Ghost,'' 
without the power, is false in fact, and a profanation of that 
holy name, though under pretence to take away original sin, 
and save them 3 which is an act of great ignorance, or wilful 
supererogation : to no purpose, but to bring reverence, honor, 
and gain unto proud, covetous, vain-glorious, imposing priests ; 
and is no ordinance of Christ, but an antichristian forgery 
and Popish relic. After this the young man was silent as 
to any reply on the subject; but confessed he now believed 
that there could not be any little children in hell, but that all 
of them are saved ; and he parted with us in a very friendly 
manner. 



16 



182 T. story's conversations, etc. 



CHAPTER XXIV. 
COLONEL DUDLY, GOVEENOR. 

1704. 

ON WAR. 

On the first of the third month, the third of the week, 
Daniel Zachary, Samuel Collins of Lynn, and I, went to the 
Grovernor, Colonel Dudly, and requested him to release our 
Friends. He received us respectfully, and seemed to lament 
our condition, as a people, that we should expose ourselves to 
such sufferings. I answered, that it was not in our own wills 
but in obedience to the doctrine of Christ; who said unto his 
disciples, " Except your righteousness shall exceed the righte- 
ousness of the scribes and pharisees, ye shall in no case enter 
into the kingdom of heaven." ^' Ye have heard, that it was 
said by them of old time. Thou shalt not kill ; and whosoever 
shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment : But I say unto 
you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause, 
shall be in danger of the judgment : Again, ye have heard 
that it hath been said. Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate 
thine enemy ; but I say unto you, love your enemies." 

Now, seeing anger without a cause, and hatred unto ene- 
mies is the cause of killing, and both condemned ; and love, 
which is contrary thereunto, recommended and commanded ; 
then they who believe and obey this doctrine, cannot kill any; 
no, not even enemies. It is not, therefore, lawful unto us, who 
believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and obey his doctrine, in 
hopes of eternal life in his kingdom, which is not of this world, 
to go to war, lest we should forego and forfeit our portion in 



ON WAR. 183 

him, and become unworthy of life in him, by disobedience to 
his manifest will, under the dispensation of his Gospel. 

The Governor answered, " That he was no disputant about 
religion ; but, to tell you the truth, said he, seeing the judges 
have given such a judgment, I cannot tell how to dispense with 
it ; especially now in the time of war, when everybody thinks 
there is both so much need of help, and just cause of war/' 

I urged again the prophecy, that "they shall beat their 
swords into ploughshares," &c. " That day,'' said he, " is not 
come ; for you see many nations are at war at this time." 

I replied, that proves that though that dispensation of peace 
is come in point of time, yet those who are in wars are not in 
the life nor doctrine of Christ, but in the first Adam and fallen 
nature j but this dispensation is effectually begun in some, and 
will go on, and over all in time ; and whatever it may be to 
you who have not embraced it, though offered unto you, it is 
not lawful for us to whom it is come (since we have received 
it), to fight : We desire, therefore, we may not be required to 
fight, but left to our Christian liberty to do or forbear, as we 
are persuaded in our consciences is best, and most suitable to 
the doctrine and practice of our great Lord, Master, and ex- 
ample, the Captain of our salvation ; who came into the world, 
not to destroy the lives of mankind, but to save them. 

Then said the Governor, " it would be better if all were so ; 
but if I should release your friends, I should be much blamed 
by the country ; who have formerly been very hard upon me 
as well as upon you : But I endeavor to forget it, and so 
would I have you." 

I answered, we have no enmity against that people for any- 
thing they have formerly, or now done to us ; but rather de- 
sired they might be brought into a condition of forgiveness 
by amendment; and added, that since the judges had given 
judgment otherwise than the law directs, and execution al- 
ready performed further than their own law reacheth, or can 
support them in, it was in the Governor's power, as I appre- 
hended, to release the young men. 

" Then," said he, ^'you may have remedy by law, if you are 



184 T. story's conversations, etc. 

wronged/^ But, said I, we sue for favor and justice at tlie 
fountain head, in this country, and not to be at the trouble, 
delay, and expense to send to England about it; and the jus- 
tices were told at the same time, and Colonel Byfield, Chief 
Justice, in particular, before sentence, that this was more than 
the law could justify them in, he having told us what he in- 
tended ; and being poor men, and not having wherewithal to 
appeal from court to court, in a legal procedure, which would 
be very chargeable ; and besides, what remedy could be ex- 
pected from men who had acted arbitrarily and contrary to 
their own laws already : We therefore desire their release. 

The Governor replied to the like effect as before, " that the 
country would be about his ears, if he should do that, but, 
said he, it is a harmless thing to work at the castle; they 
need not fight there." But, said I, that is an erection for 
war, and we cannot be active in such works as may be thought 
necessary there. And so, finding nothing could be done at 
that time, we fell into some discourse on some other subjects. 



BAPTISM AND THE SUPPER. 185 



CHAPTER XXV. 
JOHN COTTON, A PRESBYTERIAN. 

1704. 

BAPTISM AND THE SUPPER. 

Alighting at Joseph Chase's by the way, his wife (not a 
Friend) told me, their minister, John Cotton, a Presbyterian, 
haviog heard of me, had a great desire to see me, and she 
persuaded me to call at his house as I went, being near the 
highway ; which accordingly I did. 

He was very civil, and we had about two hours' conference 
concerning several points (the Town Major being present), 
especially Baptism and the Supper; the observation whereof, 
in their own way and modes, seemed to be the sum of their 
religion : yet I believe his understanding was reached as to 
several points of doctrine ; but he seemed unwilling to own 
it. 

Among other things, I exhorted him not to sit down under 
those imperfect, inadequate, and dark shadows, short of the 
divine substance, nor persuade the people to rest there, for 
you have no baptism instituted by the Lord Christ ; for the 
only baptism remaining in his Church, is that by his Holy 
Spirit : And as to the true supper, it is the flesh and blood of 
Christ, the soul-quickening spirit and life from God, which 
whosoever eateth and drinketh, dwelleth in Christ, and Christ 
in him, the ministration whereof is in the words of Christ, 
the Word of God, by whom mankind are quickened, raised 
from death unto life, and live in him and by him for ever; 
which cannot be effected by any other minister or ministra- 
tion ; And if mankind could, by any means, eat the flesh and 
16^ 



186 T. story's conversations, j:tc. 

drink tlie blood of Christ, in a literal or symbolical sense, that 
would not profit them, for it is the Spirit only, by the work- 
ing of his Almighty power in the soul, which quickeneth it, 
"the flesh profiteth nothing;" for Christ himself placeth the 
sum of that whole divine matter upon the Spirit. John Cot- 
ton was a mild and temperate spirited man ; and we parted in 
friendship. 



CHAPTER XXVI. 
MAJOR PIKE 



1704. 



TRIAL OF SPIRITS. 

After this meeting Jacob Moral of Salisbury informed 
me, that he had been with several persons in that town, in 
order to have a meeting among them, but they generally re- 
fused; the old stock of persecutors, still ruling there, being 
much against it; but the younger people were, for the most 
part, for it. And that at last he had gone to one Major Pike 
(an ancient man who had been very contentious, so that every 
man's hand had been against him, and he against every man), 
and desired his consent that we might have a meeting in their 
meeting-house, to which the Major assented ; and said also, 
that if we could not have their meeting-house to meet in for 
once, we should have his house, and accordingly Jacob Moral 
had given notice of a meeting to be there the next day. 

Both Friends and others went to the place about the tenth 
hour next morning, and the Major seemed very open and free; 
and seats being ranged and many people set down, all of 
a sudden, and without any provocation, save from the evil 
one in himself, the Major began to be very turbulent and abu- 



TRIAL OF SPIRITS. 187 

sive, saying, '^ Friends, if I may call j^ou so, what is your 
business here? what means all this concourse of people?" 
To which Jacob Moral answered, ^' We have come here to 
have a meeting, according to the liberty thou hast given \xs." 
Then said he, " You told me of a man that had a message from 
heaven to the people; which if he hath, let him say on : but 
for my part, I did not expect such a multitude, neither did I 
intend any such leave to such a people as ye are." Then he 
gave us much ill and abusive language, saying, " we were led 
by the Spirit of the Devil." 

At length I stood up and told him, that I was the person 
intended in what had been said ; but as for a message from 
heaven, in his sense, I had not pretended to it; but in the 
love of God, through a stranger, desired to have a meeting 
among such of the people as were free to come ', and had been 
credibly informed we had obtained the liberty of his house 
for that purpose, or else we should not have given him that 
trouble. 

Then Jacob Moral cleared the matter, affirming in the audi- 
ence of the people, " that he never said anything of a mes- 
sage from heaven, but only, that a travelling Friend, in the 
love of God, had a mind to see them in a meeting ; which 
the Major had given leave should be there in his house." 

Notwithstanding this, the Major persisted in his abuses, 
alleging that Scripture against us, and applying it unduly, 
" Try the spirits, believe not every spirit," &c. I asked him, 
By what means are spirits to be known ? He replied, " By 
the word of God, the rule," meaning the Scriptures. I re- 
plied that the Scripture itself could not be the rule in that 
case ; for it could not be rightly understood or applied with- 
out the Spirit of God, by which it was given forth ; and that 
by which the letter of the book came and was given, must, in 
common sense, be more excellent than the letter, and a supe- 
rior rule : yet we highly esteem the Holy Scriptures, and ever 
have done, as the best secondary rule in the world, as subor- 
dinate to the Holy Spirit, and as opened and applied by him : 
But seeing the Scriptures tell us of some who confess Christ 



188 T. story's conversations, etc. 

with their mouths, or in words, but in their works deny him ; 
and that the tree is known by its fruit ; thou thyself looks 
like one of those evil spirits, who are to be discerned, known, 
and tried by their evil, reproachful, and contentious words and 
works ; even by thy false accusations, abuses, and unworthy 
treatment of us at this time; who are come, not in our own 
names, but in the name and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, 
to visit this people ; and more especially by thy denying and 
blaspheming against the Spirit of Christ; by which we are led 
into all truth, and not by the evil one, as thou hast falsely 
accused us : But the Scripture which thou hast hinted at, 
and misapplied, is this, ^^ Beloved, believe not every spirit, 
but try the spirits whether they are of God ; because many 
false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye 
the Spirit of God : Every spirit which confesseth that Jesus 
Christ is come in the flesh, is of God; and every spirit which 
doth not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not 
of God : And this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof you 
have heard that it should come, and even now already it is in 
the world." 

Now, thou hast not heard any of us deny that Jesus Christ 
is come in the flesh ; and I do not doubt but every one here 
believeth and confesseth it, unless thou thyself be the excep- 
tion. 

And yet a verbal acknowledgment only, of the coming of 
Christ in his body of flesh in that day, is not intended in this 
place; for the devils also believe that and tremble, and yet 
remain devils still : But this confession must arise from ex- 
perience of the working, revelation, or manifestation of the 
Spirit of Christ in the heart and mind of him who thereby 
believeth in Christ, to present salvation ; according to the same 
apostle a little below, where he saith, " Hereby know we that 
we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of 
his Spirit." Again saith the Apostle Paul, " The Spirit itself 
beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of 
God." And again, " If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, 
he is none of his." Whose then art thou ? 



TRIAL or SPIRITS. . 189 

This made the old persecutor mad with rage for a time, and 
he began to rub up his old rasty tools of persecution, asking me 
■whence I came ? and threatened to order me into custody : but 
finding Truth over his spirit, and I above him therein, I re- 
plied, that if he had thought fit at first to have refused us his 
house to meet in, we could not have blamed him; but since he 
had once granted it, and now used us ill, it was unbecoming 
a man of honor, his ofi&ce, and a Christian. 

Then the invisible power of the divine truth bound his 
unruly spirit, and he began to fall and grow more calm, and 
ofiered us his orchard to meet in : But I replied, that seeing 
he had so spitefully reproached the Spirit of Christ, in whose 
name and grace we had come there, by his own concession, 
to worship God, visit the people, and in his love to inform 
and instruct them; and had broken his word so evidently, and 
abused us so very much, though strangers, and that too in his 
own house, without any provocation by any of us, we should 
not accept it, but testify against that spirit which ruled so 
lately in him, and against his unchristian practice and behavior 
in and by it, despising his orchard and all he had : adding, that 
he should remember, that he had that day rejected the Truth, 
and those who dwell therein. 

And so we went out, leaving him foaming and silent in his 
chair. 



190 T. story's conversations, etc. 



CHAPTER XXVII. 
AN OBJECTOR. 

1704. 

women's preaching. 

Then there appeared one, who said, ^'he had something to 
object against what the woman (Lydia Norton) said in the 
meeting/' I asked him what it was? Then said he, ^'I 
went away as soon as she began to speak, not thinking it fit to 
hear a woman." I replied, How canst thou object against 
what thou didst not hear ? At this he was confounded and 
silent awhile ; but, recovering himself a little, he then said, 
" he had not heard all she said." I replied. Thou first said 
thou went away as soon as she began to speak, and therefore 
could not make any objection; and now, to qualify that blunder, 
thou says thou didst not hear all that she said. How couldst 
thou hear all, if thou went off and would not hear any ? Or 
if thou hadst heard anything at all distinctly, and not the 
whole, yet to object is unfair still; for how dost thou know but 
that the latter part of her speech might qualify the former, so 
as not to leave any room for objection ? Then being again con- 
founded and ashamed, and the people deriding him, he made 
his objection at large against women's preaching at all, saying, 
that the Apostle Paul said to the Corinthians, ''I will that 
women keep silence in the Church." I answered, that the 
apostle said, ''your women" only, and not women indefinitely, 
without exception ; which he denied : Then one offered him a 
Bible to look into the place ; which he refused, and went off, 
pretending to go into a house to fetch one; but never returned. 
Then I opened that point more fully to the people, saying, That 



women's preaching. 191 

no interpretation of Scripture ought to be advanced, or ad- 
mitted, which makes it contradict itself, or one part of it 
another; or one apostle oppose another, or contradict himself 
or any of the prophets, or the matters of fact recorded in Holy 
Writ, relating to the public ministry of holy women in the 
Church of Christ, or otherwise. 

1st. Then, you may observe what Joel, the prophet, said 
(many ages before the days of the apostles), relating to the 
dispensation of the Gospel in this point, and the publishers 
of it, '• And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour 
my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters 
shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young 
men shall see visions : And also upon the servants and upon 
the handmaids in those days, will I pour out my Spirit.'^ 

The Apostle Peter, being filled with the Holy Ghost, declares 
this prophecy to relate to the dispensation of the Gospel, and 
to begin at that time of the great and glorious effusion of the 
Holy Spirit of Christ at Jerusalem, saying, " This is that 
which was spoken of by the Prophet Joel, And it shall come 
to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit 
upon all flesh ; and so repeats the prophecy at large. 

Now, it is reasonably and morally certain, by a just and un- 
deniable consequence, that the Spirit of Christ came, at that 
time, upon the holy women present, and that the women or 
some of them, preached Christ to the multitude, as well as the 
men, having been his witnesses as well as they ; or otherwise 
the application Peter made of that prophecy to that instance, 
could not have been adequate, and without exception, or a 
reasonable objection : For, if no women had spoken, or preached 
Christ there at that time, it might have been said, that the 
prophet mentions women as well as men, daughters equal with 
sons, but here only sons appear in this dispensation and occa- 
sion ; and therefore that prophecy cannot relate to it : But no 
objection of this nature appearing, it strongly follows, that 
some women preached there as well as the men at that time. 

2dly. If daughters were not to preach as well as sons, hand- 
maids as well as other servants, this prophecy could never be 



192 T. story's conversations, etc. 

fulfilled, and consequently must be false; which to say or think, 
would be profane and blasphemous, and cannot be admitted in 
any wise. 

3dly. The Apostle Paul saith in that place, '^ Let your wo- 
men keep silence in the churches (that is in the meetings or 
congregations), for it is not permitted unto them to speak; 
but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith 
the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their 
husbands at home : For it is a shame for women to speak in 
the Church" (or congregation). 

4thly. Saith the same apostle elsewhere, on another occa- 
sion, " Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But 
I sujBfer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the 
man, but to be in silence." 

By all which it appears, that the apostle was not prohibiting 
women in general, when inspired by Christ, and thereby 
qualified for such services, to preach or pray publicly in the 
congregation ; but such only as were imperious, insulting, 
ignorant, untaught, and unlearned in the way of Christ and 
religion ; and also talkative, asking bold and impertinent 
questions in the congregations, occasioning debates, heats, 
contentions, and confusion. Such were not to be sufi"ered in 
such evil work, but to be obedient to their husbands (for he 
aimed at some married women), and learn of them at home in 
modest and decent silence ; it being a shame both to the 
women themselves, and the congregations of the faithful, that 
such women should be permitted to speak in that manner in a 
public way, to disturb them, and hinder their devotion, and 
the public service and ministry of such of either sex as were 
duly qualified and sent in the wisdom and power of the Holy 
Spirit : And we as a people, are of the same mind, that 
neither such women (nor men) ought to be suffered in such 
destructive work ; but to be silent, and learn there, behaving 
therein with modesty and bashfulness becoming their sex, and 
the nature and end of what they undertake ; and not with 
strutting masculine airs as heroines, which in the female sex 
is blameworthy and shameful, and not decent in the males. 



women's preaching. 193 

5thly. And as to matters of fact, proving that women 
preached pubUcly in the Christian congregations in the days 
of the apostles, Paul recommended Phebe, a sister in Christ, 
to the congregation then at Rome, as minister, servant, and 
deaconess of the Church at Cenchrea ; and in the same place 
mentions Priscilla with great respect (placing her before 
Aquilla her husband), as his helper in Christ Jesus as well as 
he ; ■ which help can refer to nothing else but the work of the 
ministry, in which they were all jointly and severally con- 
cerned and engaged. 

6thly. And though Apollos was a man of eloquence, and 
mighty in the Scriptures, and had been instructed in the way 
of the Lord in some measure, and had taught the things of the 
Lord zealously and diligently (knowing only the baptism of 
John), Priscilla, as well as Aquilla, expounded unto him the 
way of God more perfectly. 

And, in the Second Epistle to Timothy, she is again men- 
tioned by Paul himself, before Aquilla her husband ; which 
could not be by the order of nature, with which that apostle 
was so well acquainted, but as she was preferable in her 
ministry. 

Tthly. These instances therefore wherein that great apostle 
so much approves the public ministry of these holy and inspired 
women, plainly demonstrate, that he was not against women's 
preaching in general ', for then he must have wrote contradic- 
tions in the name of the Lord, which would have destroyed 
the authority of his own ministry; since no man, speaking or 
writing by the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth, speaketh or 
writeth contrary things; and they cannot both be true, but 
the one or the other must needs be false, and suggest a 
reasonable suspicion that both are so : which cannot be thought 
of any apostle of Christ, or his ministry. 

Again, Paul directs how women ought to be adorned, as 
well as men, in the time of the public exercise of their minis- 
try, or preaching; and if he had been against all women's 
preaching, and yet given directions concerning that circum- 
stance, he would not have been consistent with himself therein, 
17 



]94 T. story's conversations, etc. 

nor one part of his ministry with another; for he saith, " Every 
man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dis- 
honoreth his head ; but every woman that prayeth or prophe- 
sieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head;" and 
more in the same place to that purpose : Which still further 
proves, that the apostle was not against women's preaching in 
the congregations, but fully allowed it ; only he endeavored to 
reform some of them in some circumstantials and incidents 
pertinent to their ministry ; in which they were awanting at 
that time, as some probabl}" may be now. 

And. also Philip, an evangelist, one of the seven deacons, 
and an able minister of Christ, had four daughters, virgins, 
who did prophesy; that is, they all preached the Gospel: And 
seeing they were daughters of so eminent a minister of Christ 
as Philip was, without all reasonable contradiction, not only 
Philip himself, but the Churches of Christ, wherever they 
ministered, approved them therein. Then, if Paul had been 
against all women's preaching and praying publicly in the 
Church, and Philip for it, they would have, in that case, con- 
tradicted and opposed each other, to the confounding of the 
people, by a contradictory uncertain ministry ; which cannot 
be admitted by men of truth, and sincere lovers of Christ, and 
such as honor the Christian religion; who upon the whole, 
must needs conclude that women as well as men, may and 
ought to prophesy, preach, and pray publicly in the Church 
and Churches of Christ, when thereunto qualified and called 
by Christ, under the immediate direction and influence of his 
Holy Spirit and power, as those holy women were; without 
which neither male nor female, under any other qualification 
or pretence whatsoever, ought to intrude themselves, or med- 
dle, lest that question, under the frown and displeasure of the 
Almighty, be asked of such, " Who hath required this at thy 
hand?" and incur a just punishment in the end. 

During all this time the people were generally attentive, and 
seemingly pleased; but, just in the close of the matter, I was 
attacked, all of a sudden, by a jolly, brisk person, who brake 
into the crowd behind me on horseback, and, by his garb, 



women's preaching. 195 

looked like a pastor of the people (and, upon inquiry after- 
wards, I found he was so), whose first salutation was after this 
manner : '^ Are you not ashamed thus to delude the people, 
imposing upon them false glosses on the Scriptures ? I am a 
stranger on the road, and, drawing near this multitude to 
know the occasion of it, cannot hut appear in defence of truth 
against your perversions : ^Tis true, you have a smooth way, 
a gaining countenance, and advantageous mien ; but, sir, you 
look, in all this, the more like an emissary." 

This, being sudden, was a little surprising at first; but 
truth being uppermost, I quickly replied, that he rather 
looked like a false teacher of the people ; and challenged him 
to instance any particular wherein I had imposed upon them. 

He instanced only in this, where I had said Phebe was a 
minister of the Church; he said, " She was not a minister, but 
a servant, as appears by the text itself in that place ; and it 
will not bear to be translated minister, as you say/^ 

I replied, servant and minister are synonymous terms, and 
the word there used may be better translated minister : And 
if she was a servant, in what other respect to the Church, if 
not in a public ministry, as a preacher? For Theodore Beza, 
in his Latin translation from the Greek (from which our 
English translations are made), hath it minister and not 
servant, ministra ecdesice cencreensis, and, in the G-reek Tes- 
tament, it is zJfazovov, that is, minister or servant. And I 
asked him before the people, if he would say, upon his repu- 
tation as a minister, as he professed himself to be, that it 
might not be properly rendered minister; which he refused: 
and then, in abundance of assurance, said openly, "that I was 
no Quaker;'^ but, in a flattering way, added, "I had more 
sense than to be a Quaker, for I had an ingenious counte- 
nance, and a mien importing a better education :" I rejected 
his flattery, and replied, that he might have had better educa- 
tion, and ought to have had more justice, than falsely to accuse 
one whom he never saw before ; and put him upon his proof 
in that and several other things, in which he had overshot 
himself, in the apprehension of most of the people who heard 
him. 



196 T. story's conversationSj etc. 



CHAPTER XXVIII. 
A PRIEST. 

1704. 



CEEATION AND NATUKE OF MAN. 

I WENT, at the request of John Keeser (a young man who 
had not been long convinced), with him to the priest of that 
town (a most imhittered enemy to the way of Truth, and all 
that walk therein in this dispensation), who had desired to 
speak with him about his dissenting from him and the common 
Presbyterian way. 

At our jBrst entrance into the house, this priest looked very 
surly, haughty, and ill-natured, and, in an imperious gesture, 
bid us sit down, which we did ; and John Keeser told him, 
"he had heard he desired to speak with him, and was now 
come to know the matter." Then he began and said, " John, 
I have had a mind to speak with you a long time, to know 
your reasons for neglecting the public worship, and deserting 
me who have charge over you, to follow the errors of the 
Quakers ; who deny salvation by Jesus Christ, and follow their 
light within : But I could not meet with you, though I came 
to your house on purpose." 

John Keeser replied, " I heard of it, and am now come to 
hear what thou hast to say." Then said the priest, " You are 
a perverse fellow; I wanted to speak with you alone, in order 
to reclaim you from the pernicious errors of the Quakers, who 
deny justification by Christ; affirming, that to expect to be 
justified by the works of Christ without us is a doctrine of 
devils." 

Then said I; Friend, if thou hast anything to say to the 



CREATION AND NATURE OF MAN. 197 

young man, relating to anything he hath done or said, I am 
here, at his request, to hear it ; but if thou goest on thus to 
reflect against, and falsely accuse that people, I am one of 
them, and shall oppose thee, as I do return upon thee thy false 
accusations already uttered ; in which thou hast shown thy 
great injustice, unworthiness, and ill-nature : For we do not 
expect salvation by any other than the Lord Jesus Christ and 
the Father; and I challenge thee to produce any author, 
approved by us, that denies the work of the Lord Jesus Christ, 
done without us, and its efficacy, for its proper end and pur- 
pose, in the redemption and salvation of mankind. 

Then the priest's wife came into the room, with an air of 
rancor, and said, '' Husband, do not talk with these men with- 
out witnesses ; for, when they are gone, they will tell lies of 
you.'^ Upon this I said to the priest, If thou hast any autho- 
rity in this house, let us be rid of this din. And he desired 
her to withdraw ; which she did : but we observed the effects 
of her resentment afterwards in the sequel. 

Then the priest said, " William Penn, in one of his books, 
had called the doctrine of justification, by the coming of Christ 
without (in the flesh), the doctrine of devils.'' I asked him, 
if he had ever seen that book ? and he confessed he had not. 
Then I asked him, how he could charge AVilliam Penn with 
such a position ? He replied, " he had seen it quoted out of 
the book, by Mr. Bugg and Mr. Keith.'' Francis Bugg and 
George Keith, said I, once knew the Truth in some degree, and 
made profession of it with us ; but took ofi'ences, first against 
some particular persons, and then against the whole body, 
and became apostates, open enemies, filled with envy im- 
placable ; and it is neither safe nor wise in thee to take any- 
thing upon trust from them against us, or any of us, they 
having been, and still are, notorious false accusers, perverters, 
and misrepresenters of us, our books, doctrines, and principles : 
But I know William Penn, and his sentiments on that subject, 
and have read the passage aimed at ; which, to the best of my 
remembrance (not having the book here), is to this efi'ect : 
<^ Jo teach that men are justified before God, by the righteous- 
1?* 



198 T. story's conversations, etc. 

ness of Christ, as wholly without us, while sin is yet reigning 
in us, is a doctrine of devils." 

This the priest did not deny, but asked rne how we hold it ? 
I said, I shall jBrst premise some things by way of introduction, 
before I proceed to a direct answer to the question, intending 
thereby to make it more plain in the conclusion : I begin then 
with the purpose of God to make man, before he had any 
actual being as such, and according to what model, and find 
that it was a gradual work ; that the matter of which the body 
of man was formed was pre-existing earth, and when he was 
perfected as natural man, he was a rational, intelligent animal 
in that state, carnally, or naturally minded, knowing only the 
things of nature, observed from without; into whom God 
breathed the breath of life from himself; whereby man became 
spiritually minded ; alive in God, who is a Spirit; like unto 
God in his mind, or inner man ; the image of him who created 
him in righteousness and true holiness : In which state God 
did not make any covenant with man, but (as a reasonable, 
intelligent creature, knowing God and acquainted with the 
intellectual voice and speech of his word) gave him a positive 
commandment, not of action, but abstinence, annexing death 
and disobedience together. 

I consider then, 1st. What that breath of life was, which 
God so breathed into man. 

2dly. What was this death in itself, so threatened in case 
of disobedience. 

And, 3dly. How, and after what manner that death could, 
in any respect, justly affect the posterity of the first man. 

And, I find, first (according to the testimony of Holy Writ), 
that this breath of life, as I understand it, was not the natural 
or animal life (for he had that before, by creation, as essential 
to him) ; but the breath of life from God was not essential to 
man, a§ such, nor constituent of his being, but was spiritual 
and divine, and breathed into the heart and mind of man, 
revealed, or manifested in him. as a law and a light to his con- 
duct in his duty toward God his Creator ; according to the 
evangelist; where, writing on this subject, he saith, ''In the 



CREATION AND NATURE OF MAN. 199 

beginning was the Word, and the "Word was with God, and 
the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with 
God. All things were made by him ; and without him was 
not anything made, that was made. In him was life, and the 
life was the light of men. That was the true light which 
lighteth every man that cometh into the world." 

Thus, in the beginning, before the fall of man, the life of 
the divine word was the light and guide of man. 

2dly. As natural death is nothing in itself, but the cessa- 
tion of the natural or animal life, the body being incapable of 
detaining it any longer, it becomes dead to all sense, and un- 
active, corrupteth after its kind, and returneth unto earth, of 
which it is a part ; so the departure of the divine light and 
life of the divine word from the heart of man, leaves it in a 
state of death, and senseless with respect to the real know- 
ledge of God and enjoyment of his divine presence and good- 
ness : and then it corrupteth more and more unto perdition. 

The cessation of life from the body is the effect of some 
distemper, or accident, incident to human kind in a state of 
nature, by the appointment of God ; but the departure of the 
divine life and light from the mind of man, was, and is, the 
natural consequence of his departing from the faith, and of 
his disobedience ; the word of God taking effect in man by 
his own act, and not by the act of God. 

Man, in the beginning, by the voice of God, knew the com- 
mand of God, and his duty to him thereby ; and believed the 
word of God for a time, which is the divine, eternal, essential 
truth ; and as long as man continued in the faith of the word, 
he lived in the divine life and light of it; stood and remained 
in the moral image of God, righteous, holy, uncorrupted, and 
undefiled. 

But when the mind of man, through temptation, disbelieved 
the word of God, in which he at first believed, and adhered 
unto another voice, which was false and a lie, the mind of 
man thereby became corrupted, and incapacitated to detain 
and enjoy the life and light of the divine word any longer; 



200 T. story's conversations, etc. 

accordiDg to the word of God, wliicTi saith, '^ In the day thou 
eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." 

And, 3dly. As to the effect which this offence had upon all 
the posterity of Adam, the first man ; in general I observe 
further, that it may be considered after this manner : Adam 
being a rational animal in his first creation, production, and 
state, became a son of God by the in-breathing of the divine 
life (which was an act of God in which the man was passive) 
into his mind, by which he had lived in God in holy fellow- 
ship with him, and was his image ; and by the light of which 
in-breathed spirit of life, the man was led and governed for a 
time, so long as he continued to believe therein.; but, through 
unbelief, disobedience, and sin against the light of the divine 
word, the life thereof was quenched in him, as to himself, and 
departed from him; and then he became corrupted and de- 
filed, and incapable, in that state, of that divine fellowship and 
enjoyment, and effaced that divine image in him; and so re- 
lapsed back into his rational animal condition ; and then, in 
that state, and not in his best state, he begat Cain, his first- 
born, in his own fallen, relapsed, and animal likeness, being 
now only carnally minded, natural or animal ; and not in the 
holy likeness, which he had and was in whilst he stood faith- 
ful, and remained in the likeness and image of God : For the 
divine nature, as such, contributes nothing to the production 
or multiplication of man, in his generation, as essential unto 
him, or constituent of his being ; for " that which is born of 
the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is 
spirit.'^ Thus, in the first Adam, all fell through unbelief, 
disobedience, and sin, and died. 

Thus, the fall of man being his departure from the divine 
life and light of the eternal word of God, his wisdom and 
power, the redemption of man is his restoration (and more 
than restoration) to the knowledge of it, and being reunited 
with it. 

And as the love, mercy, and compassion of God was still 
towards man, he gave him a promise by the same word, that 
" the seed of the woman (she having been instrumental in the 



CREATION AND NATURE OF MAN. 201 

fall) should bruise the serpent's head," or that subtle spirit 
which had betrayed her; so that, in the fulness of time, the 
woman should be instrumental in the restoration ; which ac- 
cordingly is mercifully fulfilled : For, when the Angel of God 
was sent to Mary, the holy virgin, he said, '' Hail, thou that 
art highly favored, the Lord is with thee ; blessed art thou 
among women. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy 
womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. 
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest ; 
and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father 
David : And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever, 
and of his kingdom there shall be no end." 

But Mary, reasoning as a woman, did not at first believe 
the angel, and said unto him, " How shall this be, seeing I 
know not a man ?" And the angel answered and said unto 
her, " The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power 
of the Highest shall overshadow thee : therefore also that holy 
thing which shall be born of thee, shall be called the Son of 
God.^' And Mary said, " Behold the handmaid of the Lord, 
be it unto me according to thy word." And the angel de- 
parted from her. 

Here it is observable, that so long as Mary followed the dic- 
tates of her own reason, from the common state of nature in 
the case, she withstood the messenger of God, and did not 
believe his message was possible ; but when she heard it was 
to be brought to pass by the Holy Ghost, the power of the 
Highest, then she believed, and it came to pass accordingly. 
So that as sin, and all the deadly consequences of it, entered 
Eve through unbelief; even so, through faith, Mary conceived 
(as to the body of Christ) that boly seed ; which being the 
wisdom and power of God, was to bruise the serpent's head, 
destroy his wisdom, subtility, and falsehood, and overcome his 
power in the posterity of Adam ; especially in all them who 
believe in the same word. 

And the goodness and mercy of God appeareth still further 
in this, that, in the fulness of time, many ages after that first 
promise, the Lord added other promises to mankind, both Jews 



202 T. story's conversations, etc. 

and Grentiles, even unto all nations, the whole posterity of 
Adam ; where, unto the Jew, he saitt, " Therefore the Lord 
himself shall give you a sign : behold, a Virgin shall conceive 
and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.'^ And unto 
both the Jew and Gentile he saith, ^' Behold my servant whom 
I uphold, mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth ; I have put 
my Spirit upon him, he shall bring forth judgment to the 
Grentiles." Again : " I the Lord have called thee in righte- 
ousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and 
give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gen- 
tiles. To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from 
the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison- 
house/' Which was fulfilled unto the Jews, to whom alone he 
was sent, and appeared in the days of his flesh ; where it is 
said, "The people who sat in darkness, saw great light; and 
to them who sat in the region and shadow of death, light is 
sprung up.'^ n 

And, that it might be certainly known, in the fulness of 
time, unto all mankind, who this sacred person is, and what is 
the manner of his coming and appearance, both to Jew and 
Gentile, he was to be made manifest unto the Jews first, under 
the name and character of Jesus (a Saviour), and being 
anointed of God, with all the divine indwelling fulness, is 
thereby called Christ ; and under both is called Jesus Christ, 
the Anointed Saviour, proposed as the object of faith, unto all 
nations : First, unto the Jews in the flesh as born of the Vir- 
gin ; and, secondly, unto the Gentiles, as " the true light, who 
lighteth every man who cometh into the world/' 1st, The tes- 
timony of good old Simeon concerning him, through the Holy 
Ghost, is, that he is " a light to lighten the Gentiles •/' and, in 
that respect, their light and salvation, according to the promise 
of the covenant of God aforegoing. 

2dly, The evidence of John ; where he is full and express, 
saying, " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was 
with God, and the Word was God. In him was life, and the 
life was the light of men. That was the true light which 
lighteth every man who cometh into the world. And the Word 



CREATION AND NATURE OP MAN. 203 

was made (or assumed) flesh, and dwelt among us (and we 
beheld his glory, the glorj as of the onlj-begotten of the Fa- 
ther), full of grace and truth. And of his fulness have all we 
received, and grace for grace." 

3dly, The witness of Christ himself, where he saith, " I am 
the light of the world : he that followeth me, shall not walk in 
darkness, but shall have the light of life.'' Again, Jesus said 
unto them, " Yet a little while is the light with you ; walk 
while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you : for he 
that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. While 
ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children 
of light.'' 

And, as the Father hath promised and oifered his Son as he 
is that light, and as his new and everlasting covenant with 
mankind, in order to their restoration and establishment, not 
of works, but of life; so, whoever will enter into this cove- 
nant with God, must first believe in him whom God hath sent, 
and in the way and manner in which he hath sent him, accord- 
ing to his promises. 

Now, a covenant is not on one side only, but on two at the 
least; and therefore God, who is divine eternal love, infinite 
in goodness and mercy, is pleased, of his own nature, and love 
to mankind, thus to send his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, into 
the world; who, by a voluntary death upon the tree of the 
cross, according to the fore-determined counsel and purpose of 
the Father, declared his mercy, and free pardon of the sins 
of the whole world, upon terms suiting the state, reason, and 
understanding of mankind : that is to say, upon faith in God 
the Father of all, and in Jesus Christ the Son of God (as T 
have already declared), and repentance from dead works, as 
the reasonable and necessary terms required of mankind, on 
our side or part of the covenant : that we may be restored to 
the knowledge of God and the Lord Jesus Christ, his Son, and 
made capable of being united unto God, through Christ, the 
Mediator between God and man, in this covenant, by and 
through whom we are brought into it, and stand therein stead- 
fast and immovable for ever. 



204 T. story's conversations, etc. 

We must then receive the Saviour in the way in which he 
is sent and proposed unto us; not only as he is offered upon 
the cross, for the expiation of the sins that are past ; but also 
as he is the divine light, enlightening our minds and under- 
standings, as directed by Christ himself, where he saith, 
'^ while ye have light, believe in the light, that ye maybe 
the children of light;'' that is, children of God, who is that 
light : So that as Adam fell from the true knowledge of God, 
and sense of his divine love, presence, goodness, and other 
attributes, through unbelief, we, his posterity after the flesh, 
may all arise and be restored by faith in Christ, the second 
Adam, the Lord from heaven, that quickening Spirit; not into 
the animal life, which by nature we already have, and in which 
we are averse to God and all his ways, but unto life eternal; 
that we may all know what that word meaneth, ^' As in Adam 
all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." " And as 
by the offence of one, judgment came upon all men to con- 
demnation ; even so by the righteousness of one, the free gift 
came upon all men unto justification of life." 

Again, as to the plain indication and character which the 
Holy Scripture hath put upon this divine light, whereby we 
may know it, even as natural men, by its effects, the evangelist 
saith, that the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, the Spirit 
of Christ, who is that light, " when he is come (or made ma,ni- 
fest), he will reprove or convince the world of sin, and of 
righteousness, and of judgment." And, saith the apostle, 
^^all things which are reproved are made manifest by the 
light : for whatsoever doth make manifest is light." Again : 
*' This is the condemnation (of the world), that light (even 
this light) is come into the world, and men loved darkness 
rather than light, because their deeds were evil." 

This is he, that divine eternal light, to whom John the 
Baptist and the apostles of Christ bore testimony ; and in an 
especial manner the Apostle Paul, who was sent by Christ to 
the GentileS; to open their eyes, and turn them from darkness 
to light (even unto himself, who is that light), and from the 
power of Satan unto God ; that (being so turned) they might 



CREATION AND NATURE OF MAN. 205 

receive forgiveness of sins, and an inheritance among them 
who are sanctified by faith in him, the Lord. 

During all this time the priest gave me many rude inter- 
ruptions, so that I perceived he was not worthy to know these 
things, neither could he, being deeply prepossessed against the 
truth, and the light of it; what I said, therefore, was princi- 
pally for the sake of the young man with me, who had not 
been long convinced of truth, and to leave the priest without 
excuse : But I having mentioned this light according to the 
evangelist, as the true manifester of sin in mankind, he op- 
posed that as a great error, and said, ^' That light which is in 
every man gives no knowledge of divine things, but only of 
natural, as to distinguish between one plant and another, and 
that five is more than three, and the like j and that there is 
no knowledge of sin, or of God, or of Christ, or of any divine 
things, but by the Bible." 

I replied. The Bible itself saith otherwise, and that is, ^' No 
man knoweth the Son but the Father, neither knoweth any 
man the Father save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son 
will reveal him.'' But read some verses of this first chapter 
of John the Evangelist, so as to put the Bible in the place of 
the Father and Son as thou dost, and see how it will read, 
thus, "In the beginning was the Bible. And the Bible was 
with God, and the Bible was God. The same (Bible) was in the 
beginning with God. All things were made by the Bible, and 
without the Bible was not anything made that was made. In 
the Bible was life, and the life of the Bible was the light of 
men. The Bible was the true light which lighteth every man 
who cometh into the world. The Bible was in the world, and 
the world was made by the Bible, and the world knew not the 
Bible. And the Bible was made (or assumed) flesh, and dwelt 
among them, full of grace and truth. The law was given by 
Moses, but grace and truth came by the Bible, according to 
thy doctrine. But, to return to the true doctrine in the 
Scripture, seeing that God is the word, and the word is God, 
and the same "is the true light, which lighteth every man who 
cometh into the world," and assumed flesh, it followeth, that 
18 



206 T. story's conversations, etc. 

God, who is omnipresent, is in all mankind ; and Christ, the 
light of the Father, as inseparable from him in that respect, 
is in all men. 

About this time rushed in several of the priest's rude com- 
pany ; who, we thought, had been sent for by his wife, in 
resentment of the aiFront given her, by being dismissed the 
room; and at the sight of this company, the priest fell into a 
sudden transport of rage : and, starting up as red as fury, 
said, "That is blasphemy, O horrid blasphemy!" appealing, by 
his mock gestures of admiration, to his dark ignorant crew. 

I being a little moved at this sudden charge before such 
witnesses, who might swear anything against me which their 
enraged teacher might dictate, I replied. What dost thou call 
blasphemy ? " What you said is blasphemy." What did I say ? 
" You said, that the light which is in all the heathens, is God." 

I replied, I despise thy wicked attempt, and witnesses too, 
and retort thy false charge justly upon thy own head. Then 
I repeated some of my own words. That the word is God ; that 
the same lighteth every man that cometh into the world ; and 
that all heathens, being men, have in them the same light; 
but though this light shineth in that darkness it is not com- 
prehended thereby : And the saints and faithful in Christ 
had once been darkness, and yet became light in the Lord, 
and walked in that light as children of it, though some of 
them had been heathens before this light was revealed in 
them J and they were called out of darkness into this marvellous 
light, and thereby became the light of the world. Now, thou 
denying this, must needs hold the contrary, that this light 
and word is not God ; which is directly against the Scripture, 
and plain blasphemy. 

Upon this the priest grew a little more calm, and his com- 
pany, seeming surprised stood silent, looking seriously upon 
him and me; and then he replied, ''That the light where- 
with every man is enlightened is a creature, as much as a 
house or a tree is a creature :" and added (whether ignorantly 
or subtilly I shall not determine) " That the illumination 
wherewith every man is illuminated is a creature." 



CREATION AND NATURE OF MAN. 207 

I replied, I am not speaking of the illumination, whicli is 
an act of the Illuminator, but of the Illuminator himself : for 
there is the Illuminator, who is God ; and there is his light, 
wherewith he enlighteneth ; and there is his illumination, 
which is his act of enlightening in man, who is a creature 
and is thereby enlightened. I do not say the act of God, in 
enlightening of man, is God, but that the light, which enlight- 
eneth man, is God. Then he said again, " that the light 
which enlighteneth man, is a creature as much as a house or 
a tree." I replied, that he did not rightly distinguish ; for 
though a tree be a creature of God as well as himself (and 
his doctrine was very wooden), yet a house, as such, is no 
creature, but an effect of human wisdom and art; and his 
distinction between God and his light was blind and heterodox : 
adding, that seeing God is light, and in him is no darkness at 
all, and he enlighteneth mankind by his own light, how dost 
thou distinguish between God, and the light of God ? 

Then he told me, "I had before asserted the light to be 
Christ, as the doctrine of the Quakers ; and to call that light 
Christ, is to deny the true Christ. '^ Then I repeated the 
words of the text, insisting, that I had all along spoke of God 
the "Word, as that true light 3 that the same assumed the body 
of flesh, and was Christ, as plain and full as any man could 
speak /rom the text ; and that light he had denied to be God 
or Christ; which is a denying of the true God, and Jesus 
Christ the Son of God, who is light. 

Then I asked him, how the true Christ is constituted? 
He replied, ^'that the hypostatical union of the divine and 
human nature in one person, is Christ.'^ Then said I, Lest 
we should misunderstand one another in the application of 
words variously, as is often the case, What dost thou mean by 
human nature ? This put him a little upon a pause, and then 
he replied, "that by human nature he meant the body of 
Christ born of the Virgin Mary, conceived in her by the power 
and influence of the Holy Ghost." Then said I, if the sub- 
stantial union of the divine word and the human body be 
Christ, I prove that since Christ once was, there was again 



208 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

no Christ ; for when Christ was upon the cross, and said to 
the thief, "■ This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise/' what 
was this "thou" in the thief, and this "me" in Christ that 
day in Paradise, since the body of Christ was laid in the 
sepulchre, where it remained until the third day, and the 
body of the thief was broken upon the cross, and disposed of 
after the manner of criminals ? For if it be the substantial 
union of the divine and human nature (according to thy defi- 
nition of human nature) which constitutes Christ, and that 
union dissolved by death, there was no Christ at all. 

This made the priest blush, and grope in the dark for an 
answer; and at length he brought out this, "God occupied 
the place of the soul (though he had forgot the soul in his 
definition) during that separation, in whom the body and soul 
of Christ were in divine union, though otherwise separated, 
and were united in Grod's purpose though actually separated." 

Christ's soul and body, said I, were in conjunction, in the 
purpose of God, long before he came in the flesh; and there- 
fore by this answer of thine, time hath been since the incar- 
nation of Christ, that he was no otherwise Christ than before 
his incarnation ; and therefore it cannot be the actual conjunc- 
tion that constitutes the true Christ, according to thy first 
assertion : and how is it possible there can be a divine union 
and a human separation in the same person, at the same time ? 
Explain this mystery. 

This dilemma put the priest to silence; and then I told him, 
that I did not want to know of him how the true Christ is 
constituted ; nor was I about to affirm or deny anything in that 
question, having been long satisfied as to both the divine and 
human nature of Christ, and glorious hypostatical union of 
both, by the operation and demonstration of the Holy Spirit 
of Christ in my own person; but had put him upon answer- 
ing these questions, that he might see the inconsistence and 
uncertainty of his own assertions ; and the injustice in accusing 
us falsely, as deniers of the true Christ of God, only for reject- 
ing the unlearned opinions of human-learned men ; who know 
nothing of God or Christ; but by reading the Scriptures in 



CREATION AND NATURE OP MAN. 209 

their own natural light (whereby they scarcely know one plant 
from another), and the unlearned opinions of other animal 
men concerning him. 

The priest being thus brought under, his wife returned into 
the room ; and some of the company, being angry, said, '^It is 
in vain to talk with them, for they will never be convinced.'' 
I replied, Neither he nor you have anything to convince us 
with ; and so we left them. 



18. 



210 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 



CHAPTER XXIX. 
AN ANCIENT MAN. 

1704. 

ON women's pkeaching. 

Then came in an ancient man, and asked me, '^ What 
Scriptures have you for women's preaching?" (some of our 
preachers of that sex being there). I asked him again, 
What is the reason of thy question ? dost thou ask it as pre- 
suming there is no authority for women's preaching, or to be 
better informed about it ? Upon this he was a little down ; 
but, recovering his assurance, he said, " Paul permitted not a 
woman to speak in the Church." 

I replied, that we ought not to interpret the apostle*s words 
in that place so as to make him contradict them in another; 
for that would destroy his authority, and render his testimony 
null : But seeing he told the disciples in that day, how wo- 
men, as well as men, ought to be qualified and circumstanced, 
and how to behave themselves in the time of their public 
exercises of preaching and praying in their congregations, he 
could not be against all women's preaching in the Church ; but 
only against such who themselves wanted instruction : Besides, 
if women were not to appear so in the Church, the prophecy 
of Joel could not be true and fulfilled; which consequence 
all Christians ought to guard against, and be cautious how 
they oppose the ministry of women more than of men, being 
alike included in this prophecy. Upon this the man was 
silent and sat down. 

But two of his sons being present, one of them asked me, 
^' How do you know that it is not a spirit of delusion which 



ON women's preaching. 211 

you are guided by, seeing God sends such a spirit upon men, 
as well as a good spirit V I answered, that if lie had known 
the Spirit of Truth, which leadeth into all Truth, he would 
have known him to be a most self-evidencing spirit; and when 
he appears in the heart and mind of man, cannot deny, but 
assent that he is Truth; and that the things which he manifests, 
and requires his servants to declare, are true ; but that those 
who ask such questions knew him not, but were in darkness. 
Then I asked him. By what medium does thou discover the 
sun in the open heavens ? His brother, perceiving the intent 
of my question, said, "Brother, you are gone;" but he made me 
no answer : Then I continued, and said. That as the body of 
the sun is not to be seen or known but by his own light, and 
fully seen by that, neither is the Spirit of Truth, which is 
divine, eternal, essential light, known or knowable but by 
himself; but it is self-evident unto every eye which he hath 
opened, though the children of the darkness of this world do 
not know him : He who believeth hath the witness in himself; 
and he who hath not the Spirit of Christ, who is that Truth, 
is none of his. But as to God's sending a false spirit to de- 
ceive men, I know what thou means, as all such ignorants do, 
that none can be certain by what spirit they are led, whether 
truth or error ; which is the same as to say, that all mankind 
are in utter darkness and must ever so remain. Then I de- 
manded his proof. He instanced in the false prophets men- 
tioned in the first book of the Kings of Israel; where it is 
said, " Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall 
at Ramoth Gilead ? And there came forth a spirit, and stood 
before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him : And the Lord 
said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and 
I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And 
he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also : Go forth 
and do so. Now therefore behold, the Lord hath put a lying 
spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets ; and the Lord 
hath spoken evil concerning thee." ''Here," said he, "is a 
plain instance where God sent a lying spirit into the mouths 
of all the king's prophets to delude and deceive him, and what 



212 T. story's conversations, etc. 

liath been may be : How then can you be certain whether 
you are deluded or not? Whether led by a right or wrong 
spirit ?" 

I answered, Ahab was a very wicked king, and did evil in 
the sight of the Lord, above all who went before him, and yet 
the Lord suffered him to reign in his course ; And the king 
of Assyria making an unjust war against him and the people 
of Israel, and trusting in his great army and false gods, and 
despising the only true God ; the Lord, for the illustration of 
his own power, the convincement of Ahab, and confirmation 
of Israel, that the Lord alone is Grod, and that the idols of the 
heathens were no gods, and could not save nor deliver their 
worshippers ; for the confutation of the errors of the heathen 
king and his people ; for the punishment of his luxury, 
treachery, ingratitude, and blasphemy of him and his people, 
and for the safety of the people of the Lord, and also for the 
punishment of Ahab for the neglect of his duty in his office, 
in not executing the will of the Lord upon Benhadad, a 
wicked, boasting blasphemer, the man the Lord had appointed 
to utter destruction for his pride, injustice, and wickedness. 
And Ahab killing Naboth, and continuing in idolatry, filled 
up the measure of his wickedness; and then the Lord, by the 
prophet Elijah, denounced his heavy and just judgments upon 
him. And that the word of the Lord might be fulfilled upon 
Ahab, who trusted in his four hundred lying state prophets, 
he suffered a lying spirit to deceive them all, and himself also, 
to his final destruction. 

And as such false state prophets are always flatterers and 
deceivers of kings and great men of the earth, having their 
persons in seeming admiration, because of the interests, 
preferments, and advantages to themselves ; so here we have a 
notorious instance of it, and in the behavior of Zedekiah, the 
most impudent and chief-like of all these impostors, to Micaiah 
the prophet of the Lord, smiting him on the cheek with a lie 
in his mouth, before two kings, without reproof from either of 
them, especially not from Ahab his own prince, which partial 



ON women's preaching. 213 

indulgence and approbation is common with such rebellious 
persecutors, throughout all generations, to this day. 

But this being a particular case, it no ways follows that 
God sends a false spirit to deceive such as sincerely seek unto 
him for help, direction, and counsel, in the way of life and 
salvation ; but on the contrary, inviteth all mankind to look 
unto the Lord himself, as he is the only true God, for salvation. 

Again, the Apostle Paul, speaking of the Gentiles, and the 
means which God had afforded them for the knowledge of 
himself, and by which also they had once known the Lord, 
hath declared, " That when they knew God, they did not 
glorify him as God, neither were thankful ; but became vain 
in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened, 
*and they degenerated into miserable idolatry : Wherefore the 
Lord gave them up to their own lusts and vile affections ; and 
even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, 
God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things 
which are not convenient /^ and then enumerates a large black 
catalogue of monstrous and mortal sins, as the consequences of 
their apostacy from God, and knowledge of the Lord, which 
once they had. 

It was not, therefore, nor is it, by any act of God, or sending 
a spirit of delusion into mankind, or any of them, that they are 
deluded, deceived, or misguided ; but it is the natural conse- 
quences and fruits of their own neglects, acts, and doings : 
For the Lord Jesus Christ gives encouragement unto all to 
come unto the Father for help ; for after he had reasoned 
tenderly with his hearers after the manner of men, he draws 
this gracious conclusion, " If ye then, being evil, know how to 
give good gifts unto your children ; how much more shall your 
heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him." 

By all which duly considered, it appears, that the Lord 
doth not send a spirit of delusion upon mankind, or any of 
them, to deceive them, without a cause in themselves, espe- 
cially those who believe in him, and seek unto him for the help 
and guidance of his Holy Spirit; but for the punishment of 
the wicked and ungodly, leaving them to themselves and their 



214 T. STORY^S CONVERSATIONS, ETC. 

own lusts for their punishment and destruction, when they 
have forsaken the Lord ; and not that the Lord sends a lying 
spirit to deceive any before they have grievously offended him, 
as thou hast falsely suggested : but as for such as seek the 
Lord in sincerity and truth, desire after him and love him, he 
hears their prayers, and grants them the greatest of all bless- 
ings, the manifestation of his Holy Spirit, to lead and direct 
them out of all deluding, soul-killing evils and errors, into all 
righteousness, truth, and salvation. 

But as it was of old, so it is now ; there is a generation who, 
choosing their own ways, and refusing the way of the Lord, 
reject such as are sent of the Lord to instruct them, ^^ and 
keep to themselves teachers after their own hearts' lusts, having 
itching ears ;" not sent of God, but of men ', not inspired by 
the Holy Spirit of God, but running in their own wills and 
time, are deceived, and deceive others through the lying spirit 
of this world ; running for rewards ; teaching, and that falsely, 
for hire ; for the love' of money to supply their bellies, and not 
for the love of souls and of Truth : Such know not the Truth, 
neither do their followers ; and it is just with the Lord to suffer 
the same lying spirit, the god of this world, to blindfold them, 
that both the blind and the leaders of them may fall into the 
ditch of errors and confusion, as already they are at this day, 
refusing to be helped by the grace of God, come and offered 
unto them in and by Christ the powerful and peaceable 
Saviour. 

And, finally, recommending this perverter to the considera- 
tion of what the apostle wrote to the Corinthians, " Examine 
yourselves whether ye be in the faith, prove your ownselves : 
Know ye not your ownselves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, 
except ye be reprobates ?" the whole matter ended ; to the 
honor of Truth, and satisfaction of many present : and after 
refreshing ourselves at the inn, we went back that evening to 
Wiccopinsit. 



CHRISTIANITY AND WAR. 215 



CHAPTER XXX. 
A BAPTIST TEACHER. 

1704. 

CHRISTIAlSriTY AND WAR. 

On the 9tli we went into the island of Canonicut, and 
lodged at William Anthony's ; but calling at Samuel Hicke's 
in our way, we were stayed there by a shower of rain, and, in 
the meantime, came in a Baptist teacher ; who, inquiring after 
the news from the army gone into the east towards Canada, 
against the French, took occasion to tell us, with some osten- 
tation, that he had two sons there ; and, by degrees, we fell 
into conversation upon the subject of war: He pleaded the 
necessity of the temporal sword in general, and the continu- 
ance of it under the Gospel, as well as before, under the um- 
brage of the suppression of robbers, murderers, thieves, and 
other evil doers ; and that when any one nation would unjustly 
invade another, and her rights, properties, and privileges, it 
is as murder, theft, rapine, piracy, and the like : so that since 
the magistrate (and the king as chief) beareth not the sword 
in vain, it is not wholly taken away by the Gospel, so long as 
magistracy, and the cause and use of it, remain. 

To this I answered, that the sword there mentioned is not, 
as I apprehend, the sword of destruction, nation against na- 
tion, nor the necessity of the use of such a sword in the civil 
state, but rather the sword of civil justice, in execution of 
civil, temporal, and righteous laws; whereby the civil magis- 
trate is, or ought to be, " a terror to the evil doer, and a safe- 
guard and praise to them that do well.'' 

He replied, " that if force by arms were not to be used, in 



216 T. story's conversations, etc. 

apprehending thieves, robbers, and the like, they would not 
submit to be apprehended and brought to justice, but go on 
by force to do those mischiefs." 

To this I replied. That magistracy being God's ordinance, to 
that and other good, social, and salutary ends, the countenance 
of God is with the civil officer in his just prosecution and 
execution of his office ; and the Almighty having power over 
all spirits, for the most part strikes a terror into evil doers, 
when they are only discovered and accused ; so that it is very 
rare that any resist the powers by force, but by stealth only : 
However, force may be allowed in this case, in the hand of a 
proper officer, whose business and duty it is to apprehend and 
bring to justice furious and incorrigible transgressors of right- 
eous laws and ordinances of men, for the just rule of countries 
and nations. But here I must distinguish between the king- 
dom of Christ, and the kingdoms of this world, in order to 
bring this matter to a right understanding and period. The 
Lord, by several of his prophets, hath foretold, " that he shall 
judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar 
off; and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and 
their spears into pruning hooks : Nation shall not lift up a 
sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." 
This is to come to pass under the new covenant, of which 
Christ the Son of God is Mediator ; whose doctrine tends to 
the fulfilling of it, in all who believe and obey the Gospel : 
For he saith, " Ye have heard that it has been said, Thou shalt 
love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy ; but I say unto you, 
love your enemies, bless them that curse you, and do good to 
them that hate you ; and pray for them who despitefully use 
you, and persecute you /' and that we should not be angry 
without a cause, nor lust : and so preaching perfection, which 
being accomplished in the heart, by the holy and powerful 
Spirit of him who preached this doctrine, all lust is taken away 
and destroyed ; whether it be the lust of the flesh, the lust of the 
eye, of vain glory, power, domination, self-exaltation, covetous- 
ness ; the lust of envy, revenge, pre-eminence, and the like ; 
which are the ground and cause of wars and fighting among 



CHRISTIANITY AND WAR. 217 

carnal nien, as saith the Apostle James, "From whence come 
wars and fightings among you? Come they not from hence, 
even from your lusts that war in your members ? Ye lust and 
have not; ye kill and desire to have, and cannot obtain; ye 
fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not; ye ask and 
receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon 
your lusts : ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that 
the friendship of the world is enmity with God?'' Now, 
though the kings and kingdoms of this world may be at war, 
and do and will make war one against another for a time, until 
the kingdom of Christ shall prevail over all, yet the kingdom 
of Christ is not of this world, as he said unto Pilate, " If my 
kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, 
that I should not be delivered to the Jews ; but now is my 
kingdom not from hence/' 

To this he answered, " That was only at that time that they 
would not fight; for if they had fought, he had not been 
delivered to the Jews to be crucified; and so his death, and all 
the advantages of it to mankind, hindered; but upon any other 
just occasion they might, and still may fight." 

To this I replied, that this interpretation, or rather perver- 
sion, would destroy the kingdom of Christ in the nature, 
infancy, and end of it; denying Christ to have a kingdom on 
earth, but only during his bodily presence with his disciples, 
and would obstruct the way for the accomplishing the prophe- 
cies of the prophets beforementioned, and oppose the whole 
tenor and end of the Gospel : For the proclamation of the 
celestial harbingers of the Prince of Peace, in notifying the 
birth of the first-born into the world, for the salvation, not 
destruction of the lives of mankind, was after this manner, 
" Glory to God in the highest, and, on earth, peace, good will 
toward men." And as he was sent into the world in the love 
of the Father, so the whole tenor of his doctrine, and example 
of life, was for peace and love ; and in that love, and the 
power and divine virtue of it, he yielded up his life and body 
on the cross, an adequate propitiation for the sins of the whole 
world, and to declare the mercy of God to all mankind. And 
19 



218 T. story's conversations, etc. 

it is evident that the Jews crucified Christ, in defence and 
support of this same political principle and doctrine, of self- 
defence by war and fighting, for the preservation of their 
state against the Romans ; though their policy proved their 
utter ruin in the sequel : for, said they, after Christ had raised 
Lazarus from the dead, " What do we ? For this man doeth 
many miracles ; if we let him thus alone, all men will believe 
on him, and the Romans shall come, and take away both our 
place and nation ;" which plainly demonstrates, that the disci- 
ples and followers of Christ were not of fighting principles, 
but otherwise taught by him to love even their enemies, and 
his whole doctrine tended to mercy, peace, truth, and love. 
And the apostle saith concerning the members and subjects 
of the kingdom of Christ in this world, " For though we walk 
in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh ; for the weapons 
of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God, to the 
pulling down of strongholds, casting down imaginations (or 
reasonings), and every high thing which exalteth itself against 
the knowledge of Grod, and bringing into captivity every 
thought to the obedience of Christ.'^ 

Again ; " Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and 
in the power of his might : Put on the whole armor of God, 
that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil ; 
for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against princi- 
palities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of 
this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places : 
Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may 
be able to withstand in the evil day ; and having done (or 
overcome) all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins 
girt about with truth ; and having on the breast-plate of right- 
eousness, and your feet shod with the preparation of the gos- 
pel of peace : Above all, taking the shield of faith, where- 
with ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the 
wicked; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of 
the Spirit, which is the word of God ; praying always with 
all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching there- 
unto with all perseverance and supplication for all gaints." 



CHRISTIANITY AND WAR. 219 

As the kingdom of Clirist is not of this world, he governs 
by his Holy Spirit, in and over such as are not of this world, 
but are given him out of the world ; over whom, in all ages 
and succession of time, he hath ruled in righteousness, peace, 
and joy in the Holy Ghost; and shall yet reign, till by de- 
grees, " the kingdoms of this world shall all become the king- 
doms of our God and his Christ :" and then shall be an end 
of all rule and dominion, but only of God, and the Lord Jesus ; 
who shall be all in all among the children of men : But until 
this be finished by degrees, as it is now begun and proceeds, 
the kingdom of Christ on earth is, and shall be, as at the first, 
a holy nation, a royal priesthood, a peculiar people, zealous, 
not to fight and destroy, or to meddle with the kingdoms or 
rule of the world, but of good works ; against whom there is 
no law founded upon righteousness and truth : but, until this 
be accomplished, nation will lift up sword against nation, and 
they will learn and exercise war : but as to us, we, through 
the mercy and goodness of God, are of those in whom this 
prophecy is begun to be fulfilled, and we can learn war no more : 
For as a nation shall not be born in one day, so this prophecy 
shall not be fulfilled in one generation, but in several; but, 
being fulfilled, shall not fail any more for ever : But as for 
you, who are yet in wars and fightings, how are ye his sub- 
jects, or members of his holy nation, his royal priesthood, or 
peculiar people ? Or how can you, until you obey his doc- 
trine, to love God above all, to love one another in him, to 
love your enemies, do good unto them who hate you, and pray 
for them who despitefully use and persecute you ? 

And as to us who do not fight with carnal weapons, we 
meddle not with you who do, otherwise than to persuade you 
to leave that ofif, and be enlisted under the saving banner of 
the Prince of Peace ; to believe in the divine light of the Son 
of God ; to come out of the spirit of this world, in which is all 
trouble, into the spirit and kingdom of Christ, in whom there 
is perfect peace ; which, if ye will not do, we must leave you 
to fight one with another, until you are weary, and have the 
recompense of it, one by another, in the natural consequences 



220 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

of that destructive evil, with this caution of the apostle, never- 
theless, that '^ if you bite and devour one another, take heed 
lest ye Tbe destroyed one by another." And I desire you to 
leave us to the Lord, to serve him unto whom we belong, and 
fight in his name, under his banner, against the implacable 
and immortal enemy of our souls; against whom we find war- 
ring sufficient, and fighting enough daily, though we war not 
among you to destruction, nor one with another to tbe breach 
of peace. 

By this time the spirit of my opponent was overcome, and 
he was much under for awhile ; whereof being ashamed, and 
thinking to regain his honor by drawing me off this ground, 
into the water, thither he fled, and I followed him : for he 
began a discourse about water baptism, in which I found him 
pretty subtle, but not weighty. We went into the water and 
out of it ; under the water and above it j through John's water 
baptism and antichristian rantism ; through dipping to sprin- 
kling; and from the whole to the one only permanent baptism 
of Christ by the Holy Ghost, into one holy body the Church ; 
which is his body, the fulness of him ; who filleth all in all : 
The particulars of which I omit here, having writ largely upon 
that subject on several occasions before; but closed this dispute 
on this manner : That since the Apostle Paul was the minister 
of the GospeV to the Gentiles, and completely furnished with 
every qualification necessary to a Gospel minister in so great an 
office, and yet had no commission to baptize with water, it is great 
vanity and presumption in any one in »this age to pretend to it. 
This striking at the foundation of the image, he could not bear 
any longer; but, being then fair weather, hasted away, and we 
parted friendly; which I ever endeavor to do, after every 
contest for the faith and doctrine of Christ, with all men ; my 
chief aim being to convince and open the understandings of 
opposers, and the auditors, and not only conquest : this than 
that, being a much more noble and Christian end. 



THE BAPTISMAL VOW. 221 

CHAPTER XXXI. 
JOHN HALL. 

1705. 



THE BAPTISMAL VOW. 

On tlie 17th we set forward from thence, and arrived at 
William Pecket's in the afternoon ; who, though not under 
the profession of truth, yet was zealous for it : He received us 
kindly, and, after some discourse with him about a meeting to 
be next day at his house, he was very willing we should, and 
sent his servants several ways to give notice in the country : 
and in the mean time he told me of some discourses which had 
happened among the people in those parts since I had been 
there before : for in a great meeting on that side the bay, I 
had, in a particular manner, reminded the members of the 
National Church of England, there present (sincerely wishing 
the eternal salvation of all who bear that name), of what they 
call their baptismal vow and promise, made in so solemn a 
manner before God and man, when they are sprinkled; which 
they think is their baptism : For then they promise and vow 
three great thino's, by themselves or sureties: 1st. To renounce 
the Devil and all his works, the pomps and vanity of this wicked 
world, and all the sinful lusts of the flesh ; 2dly. To believe all the 
articles of the Christian faith ; and 3dly. To keep God's holy 
will and commandments, and walk in the same all the days of 
their lives; and this they are taught by their priests to believe 
is their duty; and as, by their public confession, they had 
broken all those promises and vows; and, from being made 
members of Christ, children of God, and inheritors of the 
kingdom of heaven, in their baptism, have so far renounced 
it, and are so far fallen and degeperated from that state, as tp 
19* 



222 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

have erred and strayed from the ways of the Lord like lost 
sheep ; followed too much the devices and desires of their own 
hearts; offended against the holy laws of God; left undone those 
things which they ought to have done; and done those things 
which they ought not to have done; so that there is no health in 
them^ but are miserable sinners ; and so, from time to time, year 
to year, to the end of their days, still go on in the same way, 
and yet call Christ the Son of God, their Lord and Saviour, 
and God their Father; though they live and die in their sins, 
and are not saved from them, if this confession be true : And 
therefore it must justly be charged upon them by the Almighty 
Creator and Judge of the world, as perjury in his sight; and 
for that cause, and in zeal for their salvation, and, if possible, 
to awaken them from this deep sleep of sin, I had cried aloud 
in that meeting, sinful nation ! O perjured people I how 
greatly dost thou provoke the Most High, by so great apostacy 
and departure from the living God ! How canst thou answer 
the Lord in that day which is hastening upon thee as the 
wings of a glorious morning ? Exhorting them to repent, 
amend, return to the Lord and perform their vows, with all 
diligence and sincerity, that so their great sins might be par- 
doned, blotted out, and remembered no more. And William 
Pecket informed me, that John Hall, a man of eminence in 
that country, and a member of the National Church at that 
time, and some others, had been at that meeting, and offended 
with what I had said ; and that he had invited him to this 
meeting, which was held at William Pecket's, on the 18th day 
of this second month, according to appointment; where all were 
still and attentive, and we were favored with divine goodness. 
After this meeting I inquired of John Hall, what it was he 
and some others had taken offence at in that meeting some 
time before ? And it was chiefly what is before related ; and 
that they thought I had said, '' If a man was once in a good 
state, it was impossible to fall from it.'' As to the first I had 
said no more in effect than William Perkins, a learned minister 
of the Church of England, had written (William Pecket hap- 
pening to have the book by him) in his Exposition of Christ's 



THE BAPTISMAL VOW. • 223 

Sermon upon the Mount, page 151, which appears in these 
words : '' Having showed what perjury is, with the kinds 
thereof, let us see whether we be free from it : After examina- 
tion it will appear that men's lives are full of perjury, for where 
there is much swearing usually, there cannot but be much 
perjury; because they who swear in their common talk do forget 
their oaths, as they do their communication : But, say we are 
clear from perjury, yet are we in danger of Grod's heavy judg- 
ments, for the breach of our vow in baptism ; wherein we 
promise to believe in God, to serve him, forsaking the world, 
the flesh, and the Devil : Now, the breach of this vow is as ill 
as perjury; for therefore may baptism be called a sacrament, 
because of the oath and vow which a Christian maketh to God 
therein : For the word sacrament properly betokeneth the oath 
which a soldier maketh to his captain for his fidelity. The 
breaking of Joshua's oath unto the Gibeonites, by Saul, caused 
three years' dearth, and was not satisfied but with the blood 
of seven of Saul's kindred : And Zedekiah's perjury to the 
king of Babel, was one cause of the Lord's fierce wrath 
against Jerusalem and the princes thereof. Now, shall one 
man's perjury cause such judgments, and shall we not think 
that, among other sins, this our perjury unto God, in breaking 
our vow in baptism, bringeth upon us God's heavy wrath, by 
plague, famine, and unseasonable weather ? Wherefore, let 
the consideration hereof persuade us to temperance, and a more 
conscionable care of performing our vow unto God." 

Thus this learned and religious author of the Church of 
England makes the breach of their baptismal vow plain per- 
jury, or full as bad, incurring the wrath and judgments of 
God; and if so then, perjured England! in saying whereof, 
you may see I said nothing in that meeting, on that head, but 
what a famous minister of your own Church had said and 
written long before j and you are not yet reformed, but still 
remain the same, or like miserable sinners. 

And as to your alleging I said, '^ If a man was once in a 
good state it was impossible to fall from it," I did not 
say so ; for that would have contradicted what went before ; 



224 T. story's conversations, etc. 

and I have ever been of another judgment : And besides, that 
would have been contrary to the known testimony of the 
Scriptures ; for Adam and Eve were once in a good state, yet 
fell from it ; And the author to the Hebrews teacheth, that 
'' it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and 
have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of 
the Holy Ghost, and have tasted of the good word of God, and 
the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to 
renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to 
themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to open 
shame." And again ; '^ For if ye sin wilfully, after that ye 
have received the knowledge of the Truth, there remaincth no 
more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of 
judgment and fiery indignation which shall devour the adver- 
saries :" So that you have all mistaken what I delivered in that 
meeting, and have not done well to lie under it so long, but 
should have told me of it then. They owned that, and I 
added : 

1st. That if mankind in their infancy were members of 
Christ, they were without sin, for " he is holy and separated 
from sinners," and is not head of a sinful, unclean body, but 
of a pure, holy body, the Church, which is his body, the 
fulness of him, who filleth all in alL 

2dly. He who is a child of God, is born of God; and "he 
who is born of God sinneth not, nor can do ; for the seed of 
God remaineth in him and he cannot sin." 

3dly. He who renounceth the Devil and all his works, at 
the eighth day of his age, or sooner, according to your canon, 
renounces all sin ; for all sin is of the Devil. And if he for- 
sakes all sin at that age, he never sins at all, if this be true. 

4thly. He who keeps God's holy will and law and com- 
mandments, and walketh in the same all the days of his life, 
never sinneth: and if all this be done, it is perfection indeed. 

5thly. He who believeth all the articles of the Christian 
faith, cannot err in faith ; but seeing faith is not man's acqui- 
sition, but the gift of God, no man can procure it for himself, 
much less can he procure, or safely engage it for another. 



THE BAPTISMAL VOW. 225 

But if it were true, that all this were had upon your baptism, 
as ye call it, in your infancy, then see what miserable and 
dreadful state ye are fallen into ; for after all this, even in 
your old age, instead of renouncing the Devil and all his 
works, you have erred from the way of God like lost sheep ; 
and it is the spirit of error, not of Christ, which leads man- 
kind astray from God; for the Spirit of Christ leadeth into all 
Truth. 

6thly. You have offended against the holy laws of God, you 
say ; and such offences are not of Christ, but of Antichrist : 
You have left undone those things which you ought to have 
done, and done those things which you ought not to have done; 
and, from members of Christ and children of God^ you are 
become miserable sinners : so if that be true which you pre- 
tend to in your baptism, how great is your fall ! for he who is 
an inheritor, is in possession of the inheritance, and enjoyeth 
it, as he who is only an heir, waiteth in expectancy, until the 
time of inheriting shall come : If then ye had been inheritors 
(that is, possessors) of the kingdom of heaven in your infancy, 
with Christ and his holy angels, ye must now needs be fallen 
from heaven, and from Christ, and the company of the holy 
angels of God, with the apostate angels, and in communion 
with them, by your own assertions. How then shall you be 
restored ? being as the withered branches, out of your own 
mouths condemned, cut off from the body of Christ, from being 
members of him : For the members of Christ, while such, are 
not miserable sinners, but are redeemed from all iniquity, by 
the life of Christ, and purified as a peculiar people unto God, 
zealous of good works, and not devoid of saving health ; but 
healed by him, who is the health of all nations, to be testified 
in due time ? But the doctrine ye are taught cannot be true ; 
ye are not regenerated nor born again in your rantism, as you 
ignorantly and miserably imagine ; your dark and blind leaders 
have caused you thus to err, and lead you thus astray ; for if 
you had then been born again, of the incorruptible seed of the 
word of God, so many gross sins would not now be reigning in 
you, as now appear; since he that is born of God, sinneth not. 



226 T. story's conversations, etc. 



CHAPTER XXXII. 
AN OPPOSER. 

1705. 

FREEDOM FROM SIN. 

And tlie friend having finished, I concluded the meeting in 
prayer. Then this opposer stood up again, and, directing to 
nie, said, " Sir, I have heard you with much attention, and 
you have delivered many very good things : Do you mean by 
freedom from sin in this life, such a freedom, as that a man 
never sins after he hath embraced the Christian religion ?" 

I answered. No; for as all are liable to be tempted after 
they have believed in Christ, and known something of the 
work of conversion, a man may sin, if he adheres to the temp- 
tation of the adversary; but if he continueth to follow the 
Spirit of Truth, which leadeth into all Truth, he sinneth not 
after he is converted ; but through the grace of God, come by 
Christ the Lord, may live a holy, righteous, innocent, and 
sinless life, to the end of his days in this world. 

" I ask you then," said he, " did ever the Apostle Paul sin 
after he was a minister, and converted ?" 

I answered, That is not a proper question to ask me con- 
cerning a person so eminent, departed this life so many hun- 
dred years ago, and to whose secret failings, if any he had, I 
was never privy ; but if I may judge of him by his doctrine, 
as I think I ought, and that he was one in conversation and 
attainment with what he preached unto others, I may justly 
conclude he lived free from sin, from the time of his conver- 
sion to his dying day. 

He replied, and said, "I prove out of the word of God 
(pulling out a Bible), and from the apostle's own words, that 



FREEDOM FROM SIN. 227 

he was a sinner after he was an apostle.'' Then said I, Who 
art tiiou ? Of what communion professing the Christian 
religion ? For I perceived hj his accent he was a Frenchman 
by nation. He replied, '^ I am in communion with the Church 
of England, and am a minister of that Church." Dost thou, 
then, said I, here in this auditory, many of whom are of the 
same communion with thyself, charge the apostles of Christ 
with sin ? " Yea," said he, " the apostles were sinners after 
they were converted, and at the same time when they were 
ministers of Christ, as I shall prove by the seventh chapter of 
Paul's Epistle to the Romans, and the first chapter of the 
First Epistle of John." Then he read, ^' For we know that 
the law is spiritual ; but I am carnal, sold under sin : For that 
which I do, I allow not ; for that I would, that do I not ; but 
what I hate, that do I." Again, '^ If we say we have no sin, 
we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 

I answered. It is not to be admired that the people are so 
ignorant, who have such blind guides : But the saying of 
Christ is now again fulfilled in this generation, as it was among 
the Jews who crucified him ; " If the blind lead the blind, they 
shall both fall in the ditch." I have told the auditory already, 
in the testimony I have borne among you, that the apostle, in 
that Epistle to the Romans, was not speaking of the state 
which himself or any of the apostles were in at that time when 
he was writing it ; but personating and representing the state 
of the Jews under the law, and of mankind in general under 
the fall of the first Adam (in whom all mankind were virtually 
included at the time of his transgression), before they came to 
the belief and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, the second 
Adam, and Saviour of all : F©r in that Epistle the apostle 
proves, that both Jews and Gentiles were under sin; the 
Gentiles by breaking the law writ in their hearts, and the 
Jews by transgressing the law of God by Moses : So that the 
transo;ressino; Jews and Gentiles were all alike sinners in the 
sight of God, the Creator and Judge of the world : and more 
especially the Jews, as having had the knowledge of the law 
of God, both inwardly and outwardly, and had transgressed 



228 T. story's conversations^ etc. 

both dispensations, by which their sins were aggravated ; so 
that every mouth is stopped, and all the world become guilty 
before God : for God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that 
he might have mercy upon all. Again ; the Scripture hath 
concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus 
Christ might be given to them who believe. 

But are mankind still to remain in their sins to the end of 
their days, and inherit the kingdom of God at last? No, 
surely ; for if we live and " die in our sins, whither Christ is 
gone we cannot come :" But though all have sinned and come 
short of the glory of God, yet being justified freely by his 
grace, through the redemption which is by Jesus Christ, whom 
God hath set forth to be a propitiation, through faith in his 
blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins 
that are past, through the forbearance of God : And this 
redemption is not, by any means, consistent with sin, but 
contrary to it; for Christ came not to save us in our sins, but 
from them; and sin being the cause both of defilement and 
condemnation, until that is taken away there can be no re- 
demption or salvation. 

For it was not the hearers of the law only who were just 
before God ; but the doers of the law should be justified ; and 
by their fruits men are to be known : And saith Christ the 
Lord, " Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall 
enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he who doth the will 
of my Father who is in heaven," The workers of iniquity, 
though they have prophesied in his name and cast out devils, 
and done many wonderful works, will be disowned at last, and 
commanded to depart : And it is the hearer and doer of the 
sayings of Christ who shall sland upon the rock, when the 
time of trial shall come ; and every one who heareth the say- 
ings of Christ, and doth them not, is on the sandy foundation, 
and all his building shall fall, and be destroyed with great de- 
struction in the end. 

And the advice and doctrine of the Apostle James, is, that 
we be "doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving our 
own selves:" and "faith without works is dead.'' And the Son 



FREEDOM FROM SIN. 229 

of God hatli said (speaking of the law and of the prophets), 
"whosoever therefore shall break one of these least command- 
ments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in 
the kingdom of heaven ; but whosoever shall do, and teach 
them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." 
And he closeth that chapter of his excellent and most moral 
doctrine, with this preceptory exhortation, " Be ye therefore 
perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven, is perfect." 
Such therefore who are perfected, through the eternal Word 
who preached this doctrine, shall be settled and established in 
him, and with him, for ever in heaven ; when such as assume 
to teach others, and act contrary to the doctrines they preach, 
or teach mankind to sin against God, and break the least of 
his commandments, either by doctrine, disputation, or evil 
example, shall be condemned and excluded. 

This enraged the priest to a great degree; and then he 
repeated his charge against the Apostle Paul with vehemence, 
saying, <' He speaks in the present tense. I am, I do, I do 
not : I am carnal, sold under sin ; for that which I do, I allow 
not; for what I would, that do I not: but what I hate, that do 
I; and so on to the end of that chapter : so that it is clear that 
the apostle was in sin at that time. So then, saith he, with the 
mind, I myself serve the law of God ; but with the flesh, the 
law of sin." 

To this I answered, that though the apostle, according to 
the Holy Scriptures, convinceth all men of sin ; yet in great 
part of that epistle he preacheth perfect and absolute freedom 
from sin, through Christ ; even in this present world : for in 
the beginning of the sixth chapter of that epistle, he saith, 
" Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound ? God for- 
bid : How shall we, who are dead to sin, live any longer there- 
in ?" And then, alluding to the death and resurrection of 
Christ, which was absolute and perfect, he draws this compa- 
rison, "That like as Christ was raised up from the dead 
by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in 
newness of life, knowing this, that our old man is crucified 
with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that hence- 
20 



230 T. story's conversations, etc. 

forth we should not serve sin. For he who is dead is freed 
from sin." And still prosecuting the same doctrine through- 
out all that chapter, he adds, For in that he (Christ) died, he 
died unto sin once; but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 
Likewise, reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto 
sin; but alive unto God, through Jesus Christ our Lord. 
Again, when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from 
righteousness; but now, being made free from sin, and become 
servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end 
everlasting life." In all which he speaks in the present and 
preterperfect tense, as of a state already attained by many of the 
disciples of Christ, through faith in his holy and powerful name. 

And the apostle, still proceeding in the same doctrine, in 
the beginning of the seventh chapter (but under another 
similitude, alluding to marriage), saith, " Wherefore, my 
brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of 
Christ, that ye should be married unto another, even unto him 
who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit 
unto God : For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins 
which were by the law, did work in our members, to bring 
forth fruit unto death : But now we are delivered from the law, 
that being dead wherein we were held ; that we should serve 
in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." 
And in the next chapter, he further explains this, where he 
saith, "The carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not 
subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be : So then they 
that are in the flesh cannot please God ; but ye are not in the 
flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell 
in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is 
none of his." 

The apostle having clearly finished the glorious and most 
comfortable doctrine of present redemption from sin, he re- 
sumes in the seventh chapter, to speak of the state of the 
Jews (as hath been said), under the law only, and not of the 
condition, either of himself, or of any other under the Gos- 
pel : In the first place, in the latter end of the seventh chap- 
ter, he gives thanks unto God for his deliverance from the 



FREEDOM FROM SIN. 231 

wretched state of sin, and body of death, through Jesus Christ 
our Lord : And, secondly, confirms his doctrine in the eighth 
chapter, saying, " There is therefore now no condemnation to 
them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, 
but after the Spirit : For the law of the spirit of life, in Christ 
Jesus, hath made me free from the law of sin and death ; for 
what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the 
flesh, God sending his own Son, in the likeness of sinful flesh, 
and by a sacrifice for sin, condemned sin in the flesh, that the 
rio-hteousness of the law mig-ht be fulfilled in us, who walk not 
after the flesh, but after the Spirit : for to be carnally minded 
is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Now, 
whosoever contradicteth himself in testimony, destroyeth his 
own credit, and renders his evidence void : If therefore the 
apostle should, in the seventh chapter, contradict the doctrine he 
preaches in the sixth and in the eighth, he would have rendered 
his doctrine null, to all men of understanding, distinguishing 
things that difi"er. And to be sold under sin, and under cap- 
tivity to the law of it, and to be free from the law of sin, at 
the same time, is a contradiction in matter and terms ; and 
ought not to be admitted, in favor of sin, by any Christian, 
against so great an apostle and minister of the Lord Jesus : 
But such impostors and deceivers as plead, wrangle, and dis- 
pute, and contend for sin term of life, and salvation in the end, 
cannot themselves be innocent; but even therein sin against 
God; and, as far as they can, propagate and advance the king- 
dom of Satan, in opposition to the kingdom of Christ, in man- 
kind, to the end of the world, not knowing the Scriptures nor 
the power of God; and wrest some places of this seventh 
chapter to the Romans, and other Scriptures, not only to their 
own destruction, but of those also who, through the lust of 
the flesh, eyes, and pride of life, believe and follow them as in 
this instance now present : For the apostle, in this chapter, is 
not preaching up the power of sin, which hath no power in 
itself without the law, but the weakness of the law against 
sin, which it only discovers, but cannot destroy. 

The priest was again in a rage, therein repeating his charge 



232 



T. STORY S CON VERSA! IONS, ETC. 



against the Apostle John, where he saith, " If we say that we 
have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us ;" 
but did not offer any comment, or argument upon this text, 
as supposing it sufficiently cogent of itself to prove his charge ; 
which he again and again insisted upon and repeated. 

Then I replied, thou hast already brought thy charge, and 
we all understand it without repetition, it is to maintain "sin 
terra of life," by a misapplied text of the first Epistle of the 
Apostle John ; and that no man ought to pretend to obtain 
freedom from sin while in this world : And thou hast brought 
in the Apostles of Christ (the best and most perfect of men), 
not only guilty of sin, but living in it, and preaching it; that 
thereby thou mayest fortify and establish thyself in thy own 
sins, against the plainest convictions of Truth in full and plain 
contradiction to thy false charges. But let this apostle be 
heard for himself and Truth. 

Then I observed to the auditory, that this apostle, in his 
General Epistle, begins first with the testimony which himself 
and the rest of the apostles had borne of God to the people, 
when first sent unto them, that is, to the word of life, which 
is Christ in Spirit, and to God, ''that he is light, and in him 
is no darkness at all :" and then, secondly, he proceeds to set 
forth the sinful and ignorant state mankind were in when the 
apostles were first sent unto them, as in this doctrine, "If we 
say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not 
in us;" which is explained in the tenth verse thus, "If we say 
that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is 
not in us." That is, as we are men under the fall, in the first 
Adam, before we know Christ the second Adam, and redemp- 
tion from sin by him ; if in that state we say we have no sin, 
or have not sinned, we deceive ourselves, and lie against the 
truth, and give God the lie too, who hath declared, he hath 
sent his Son to redeem and save us from our sins, if we had 
not sinned at all : But the apostle proceedeth, and saith, "If 
we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our 
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." And, to 
set forth the liberty of the sons of God, and freedom from all 



FREEDOM FROM SIN. 233 

sin and evil, both in this world, and in that wiiich is to come, 
the apostle further adds in the sequel of this Epistle, saying, 
" He that saith he abideth in him (Christ) ought himself also 
so to walk, even as he walked :" and wilt thou say that Christ 
walked in any sin ? 

Again, ^'I have written unto you, fathers; because ye have 
known him that is from the beginning : I ha ve written unto you, 
young men ; because ye are strong, and the word of God abid- 
eth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.'^ Fathers 
in Christ are not in sin, as such ; for the keeping the com- 
mandments of God is their evidence and assurance that they 
know him : neither are young men in him overcome of sin, 
when they have overcome the wicked one, the author of it, 
through the divine power of the word of life, which abideth 
in them: "Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have 
heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from 
the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the 
Son, and in the Father." And as there is no sin in the Son, 
nor have sinners, while such, any communication with them j 
for he is separated from sinners ; so the Father is of purer 
eyes than to behold iniquity, with approbation : And if ye 
know that he is righteous, ye know that every one who doeth 
righteousness is borne of him. And " every man that hath 
this hope in him (to see God as he is), purifieth himself even 
as he is pure;" and thou wilt not venture to say that God is 
not perfect in purity: And "be ye holy for I am holy, saith 
the Lord;" and they could not be holy and sinners at the same 
time ; for these two states are full opposite one to another. 
And the apostle carries this doctrine, of freedom from sin in 
this life, yet further, and saith, " Whosoever abideth in him, 
sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither 
known him. He that committeth sin is of the devil ; for the 
devil sinneth from the beginning : for this purpose the Son of 
God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the 
devil. "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his 
seed remaineth in him ; and he cannot sin, because he is born 
of God." Thou therefore who art pleading and wrangling 
20* 



234 T. story's conversations, etc. 

for '^ sin term of life," wWcli is the work and kingdom of Satan, 
art therefore bewraying and proclaiming thy own benighted 
state, that thou hast not abode in Christ, if ever thou hast, in 
any degree, known him; and that though he is the true light, 
which lighteth every man who cometh into the world, and the 
new and everlasting covenant of God, thou hast neither seen 
him nor known him : thou mayest see by this doctrine of the 
apostle which thou art opposing, whose son thou art : and that 
the Son of God is not manifest in thee, so as to destroy the 
work of the devil, which thou art supporting with all the might 
and subtility he hath given thee, and that thou art not a child 
of God, but overcome of the world, and of the evil one who 
rules therein. 

The priest, being very angry and impatient to see the 
apostle justified by his own doctrine from those false imputa- 
tions, vehemently repeated his charge, '^ that the apostles had 
sin at the same time when they were ministers of Christ, and 
preaching salvation to the rest of mankind by him :" " If we 
say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves,'^ &c. Here he 
plainly includes himself, and the rest of the apostles and piimi- 
tives, in the present tense. 

I replied, that the apostle likewise speaks in the present 
tense and preterperfect tense, in handling that doctrine; 
^' Every one who doth righteousness, is born of him. Every 
man who hath this hope, purifieth himself:" and so of the 
rest of the text I have mentioned before, and many others in 
the same Epistle, of like import : And the apostle, being led 
into those truths of the Gospel, could not contradict one part 
of his Epistle by another; only thou dost not understand him,' 
nor mind the context. And besides, as the apostles had been 
born after the j&esh, and been sinners as well as others ; and 
by nature children of wrath ; and in that state not children 
of God more than others, they sometimes condescended in the 
manner of their expression, to the states and weakness of the 
people; as for instance, the Apostle Paul saith, he "that became 
all things to all men, that he might by all means save some ; 
unto the Jews^ he became as a Jew ; to them who were under 



FREEDOM FROM SIN. 235 

the law, as under the law," as before in his Epistle to the Ro- 
mans ; " to them who were without law (in a religious sense) 
as without law :" to the weak he became as weak, that he 
might gain them also. Timothy was circumcised under that 
consideration ; and he baptized several with water, though no 
part of his mission, and preached the law of life and salvation 
unto the Gentiles ; who at that time, were not under the 
power of the law of God, but without God in the world, 
and subject to wild and unreasonable idolatry : And yet the 
apostle did not condescend so far as to sin, in any degree, 
with sinners; for that would have brought him under con- 
demnation, and rendered his testimony of none effect, and 
would not have tended to the salvation of his hearers, but to 
their destruction ; as doth thy false doctrine to such as hear, 
believe, and follow thee. 

Again, the Apostle James condescendeth to the weak, in 
the like manner of expression, where he saith, '^ The tongue 
can no man tame ', it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison : 
therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse 
we men, who are made after the similitude of God : out of the 
same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, 
these things ought not so to be : Doth a fountain send forth, 
at the same place, sweet water and bitter ? Can the fig-tree, 
my brethren, bear olive berries ? either a vine, figs ? So can 
no fountain yield both salt water and fresh. '^ Here this 
apostle likewise, as the Apostle Paul, speaks in the first person, 
and time present, and who, unless thyself, in favor of sin, will 
say, that the apostle was at that time, if at all in any time of 
his life, a curser of men ? And so far was he from induloino- 
mankind in sin, that he teacheth, " that if ye have respect to 
persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as trans- 
gressors : For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet 
ofi"end in one point, he is guilty of all." 

Then, in his usual passion, he moved another charge against 
us, ''that we never pray for forgiveness of sins; and con- 
sequently we never confess we have been sinners." 

I answered. It is not to be admired that thou chargest us 



236 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC, 

falsely, seeing thou hast made so bold with the apostles of 
Christ and primitives; for though we do not think it our duty 
to confess our sins to any priest of any kind or order, who 
might be as sinful, or more so than ourselves, yet we confess 
them unto God; who knows us as we are, with all our infirm- 
ities ; and who, we know, by happy experience, is faithful 
and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all sin ; 
which no priest, but the High Priest and Bishop of souls, is 
able to do; and who, through infinite mercy and goodness, 
hath freely done so to many penitent and humble ones in this 
age, as well as in times past, to his own glory. And I proved 
him false in this also, appealing to the people present, whether, 
even in that meeting, I had not, in prayer, given thanks unto 
God, in behalf of our community, for his gracious pardon 
through Christ, of our many sins and failings; and for his 
great love also since; and for the Sowings of it in the hearts 
of the sincere among us, even at that time. But since we 
were favored with the evidence of the Spirit of the Son of God, 
that the Father, through him, had pardoned all our sins past, 
there was no need, nor was it proper, to pray for what, through 
grace, we had already obtained ; and yet I had prayed then 
also, that if the Lord (who seeth in secret) saw any sin or evil 
lurking in any of us, that it might please him to discover it 
unto us, and do it away. And thus his false charge in that 
point also, was turned upon him. And then I repeated his 
charge against the Apostle Paul, and his reason for it, viz., 
Because he spake in the present tense, and read the 2d verse 
of the 8th chapter to the Romans, where he saith, " The law 
of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, hath made me free from 
the law of sin and death;" which is not the law of Moses, 
the mediator of the first covenant, which was of works, but of 
eternal life, freely given us of God the Father, through Christ 
our Lord, who is the only Mediator of this covenant. And 
here the apostle, speaking in the preterperfect tense, as of a 
thing already accomplished, it was once more fully conclusive 
against him : since it is impossible that the apostles could be 
in these two quite repugnant states, at one and the same time, 



FREEDOM FROM SIN. 237 

when writing those two parts of that epistle, so near as a 
very few verses, or lines, one to another. 

To this he gave no answer, but vehemently repeated the 
same verse as before, out of the 1st chapter of the First 
Epistle to John, and the 8th verse, '' If we say that we 
have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.'' 
Then I read the 10th verse of the same chapter, as it is thus, 
^' If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and 
bis word is not in us.'' Then he cried out, " You falsify the 
Scripture in reading it^ for he doth not say, 'If we have not 
sinned we make him a liar, and his word is not in us,' but 
if we say we have no sin," &c. I say I do read right, and 
read the 10th verse, which went before in the 8th ; and then 
I read it again. Then said he, '' You do not read right." 
And I read it again. And yet he had the assurance to charge 
me again with false lection, to impose thereby upon the people. 
Then said I, Read it thyself; here, take thy own Bible (for I 
had it in my hand, and had read in it), lest thou shouldst 
pretend, that when I read it in another, that it was a Quaker's 
Bible, and corrupted to our own sentiments (as some have 
falsely accused us) ; and then I will read it again, and thou 
shalt compare thine with the other, whether they be the same; 
and so read the verse in the other as before, " If we say we have 
not sinned," &c. When he saw this he pretended he meant the 
8th verse. I answered. How could that be ? for I read that 
at first, and told thee this was subsequent, to explain and give 
the full sense of the former. And so I went on to clear the 
apostle's doctrine fully, according to the true intent of it as 
above ; and chiefly by the 4th and 6th verses of the 2d chapter, 
and the 13th and 14th of the same; and chapters 3, 4, 5, 6, 
7,8,9. ^ 

Then this priest (being the most perverse and wilful obsti- 
nate person I had ever met with) raged again like a madman, 
interrupting me often, as he had done all along ; upon which, 
with a suitable asperity, I rebuked him, saying, Thou advocate 
of Satan, and for his kingdom, thou minister of sin, be silent, 
and hear a full answer, once more, and refutation of thy false 



238 T. story's conversations, etc. 

charges against the apostles of Christ, and their divine soul- 
saving doctrine. But he, forgetting both his former charge 
and my answers, as deaf to all Truth, ran raving on vrith further 
charges and pleas for sin : Then I repeated a text out of the 
6th chapter to the Romans; viz., " When ye were the servants 
of sin, ye were free from righteousness ; but being made free 
from sin, and become the servants of God, you have your fruit 
unto holiness, and the end is everlasting life/' Again, '' He 
that commits sin, is the servant of sin.'^ 

Then, in another raging fit (for Satan is always angry when 
bis kingdom is opposed), he said, ^' that a man may commit 
gin and not be a servant of sin, for a servant cannot properly 
be called a servant unless he obey in all things." Answer : 
According to this, thou may commit murder to-day, fornication 
to-morrow, and theft next day, and yet not be a servant of 
sin. "No," said he, "if a man commit sin once a month or 
six weeks, he may yet not be a servant of sin. And again, 
that a man may live in sin twenty years together, and yet not 
be a servant of sin." 

After three times repeating this, I desired it under his 
hand ; which he offered to have done, but was hindered by 
some of his own party, who, I suppose, were ashamed of this 
monster. I then repeated two texts of Scripture ; one being 
the words of Christ, and the other of the Apostle Paul : " He 
that commits sin, is the servant of sin ; and his servants ye are, 
to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, whether of sin 
unto death, or of righteousness unto life eternal." And here 
both Christ and the apostle speak of all sin, indefinitely, as 
well the lesser as greater evils, without any reference to time 
or frequency, or distinction, or kinds, or number of sins. 

Then his own party seeing him in confusion, and asserting 
such horrid impieties, urged him to depart; which he did 
accordingly, with some mumbling invectives against me, and 
shaking his head and fist, in reply to something I had said in 
the meeting against consubstantiation, as being as unintelligible 
and heterodox as transubstantiation : by which I conjectured 
he was a Lutheran priest ; and so he departed in a fume. 



PERFECTION IN THIS LIFE. 239 



CHAPTER XXXIII. 
A FRENCH PRIEST. 

1705. 

PEKFECTION IN THIS LIFE. 

Then one came and told me the French priest was going 
from thence ; so that if I had anything to say to him, must do 
it quickly : Whereupon I went from the table, and found hiia 
with some people about him, and spake to him, in their hear- 
ing, concerning our meeting upon his challenge. This put 
him into a fresh rage j but would not hear of any further dis- 
pute : pretending he had appointed that day for it, and I did 
not go ; and therefore he was at liberty. I replied. Neither 
did thou go there ; and thou ought not to decline meeting me, 
since, upon thy own challenge, I came back from beyond 
James River, with some difl&culty, charge, and hazard, on 
purpose, and am ready to meet thee at thy own place to- 
morrow. But he utterly refused it, in ill language; and yet, 
by degrees, we came upon the same points of sinless perfection 
in this life, or sin to the end, and further debated it ; in which 
I had occasion to repeat that Scripture, where it is said, 
^' Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin ; for his seed 
remaineth in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of 
God." 

To this he answered, '^ that the same apostle distinguisheth 
upon the word sin, where he saith, ' If a man see his brother 
sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall 
give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin 
unto death : I do not say that he shall pray for it. All un- 
righteousness is sin; and there is a sin not unto death.' 



240 T. story's conversations, etc. 

Now," said he, " this sin, which is here said to be a sin unto 
deathj is not intended as to every sin, or of any other but the 
sin against the Holy Ghost ; which is never to be forgiven, 
neither in this world nor in that which is to come/' 

I replied, that the apostle could not mean the sin against 
the Ploly Ghost only; for in the same place he saith, ^' All 
unrighteousness is sin (indefinitely), and we know that who- 
soever is born of God sinneth not ; but he that is begotten of 
God, keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." 
He therefore who so keepeth himself, that the wicked one 
toucheth him not, neither sinneth against the Holy Ghost, 
nor any other sin ; for such can say in truth, " as he is, so are 
we in this world." But for the better understanding of this 
point, let it be considered what Christ himself saith concerning 
sin in general, and of the sin against the Holy Ghost in par- 
ticular : The law of Moses did not impute sin unto any, where 
no act of sin was committed, or known duty omitted; but the 
morality of the Gospel, by the Lord Jesus Christ, being more 
divine, excellent, and perfect than that of the law, chargeth 
the desire and will with sin, where there is no actual or 
legal transgression : For instance, Christ said to his disciples. 
Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of 
the scribes and pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the 
kingdom of heaven. Ye have heard that it was said by them 
of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery ; but I say unto 
you, that whosoever looketh on a woman, to lust after her, 
hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." 

Now, here is sin charged upon the lust, or desire of evil, 
arising from the root of evil in the heart, where the will is 
subjected thereto by that desire, though the act be not com- 
mitted; yet such desire and will, though sinful in the sight of 
God, who is perfect in holiness, it is not mortal or deadly, till 
acted : For the Apostle James, by his doctrine, explains this, 
where he saith, " When lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth 
sin; and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." 
Here under the word lust is comprehended every sinful 



PERFECTION IN THIS LIFE. 241 

desire incident unto human kind, whereby we sin or can sin 
against God; the conception and purpose whereof in the 
heart is sin, and defileth, but, until finished by words or 
actions, is not so mortal as to separate the soul for ever from 
the life of God ; whether it may be murder, adultery, cove- 
tousness, which is idolatry, or any other mortal sin. And 
" whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one 
point (even so much as to respect persons in matters of reli- 
gion), he is guilty of all :" But though he who thus sinneth 
against God, brings death over his soul as a necessary con- 
sequence of it, and lays himself liable to eternal judgment 
and punishment; yet these are not sins against the Holy 
Ghost, as Christ defines it : For '' all manner of sin and blas- 
phemy shall be forgiven unto men ; but the blasphemy 
against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And 
whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall 
be forgiven him ; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy 
Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor 
in the world to come." By which it is evident, that the sia 
against the Holy Ghost is committed by the tongue, and con- 
sists in attributing the wonderful works of God, by his holy 
Spirit, especially in the redemption of mankind, unto that evil 
one, the Devil, or unto any other power, than the wisdom and 
power of the Almighty only : But if the children of God, who 
are born of his divine and eternal word, may, as such, sin 
any sin, except the sin against the Holy Ghost (as is the plain 
sense of thy, and your doctrine and reasoning), then they 
might be guilty of any, or all other sins, and still be children 
of God, in an evangelical sense, innocent and undenled ; which 
is a contradiction, inconsistency, and impossibility, and in the 
nature of it, blasphemous. 

This priest, being exceeding loth to yield up this beloved 
doctrine of " sin term of life, and the kingdom of heaven at 
last," struggled yet a little further : and upon my saying, that 
no man can serve two masters, nor God and sin, at the same 
time ; he replied, as in our former dispute, ^^ That a man is 
21 



242 T. story's conversations, etc. 

never properly a servant, unless he obey his master in all 
things : so a man cannot be a servant of sin, unless he obeys 
it in all things/' 

Then I urged, that if none can be the servants of sin uolcss 
he obey in all things, so by a parity of reason one may say, 
none can be the servant of God, unless he obey in all things : 
And then none of you priests, who plead for "sin term of life,", 
pretending to serve God and sin at the same time, can be 
servants of God, or ministers of Christ ; since ye do not, by 
thy own confession, obey him in all things, if in any one 
thins;. 

So many of the people as were present, being generally very 
quiet during the time, and for anything that appeared to the 
contrary, were satisfied, and it growing late, we at last parted 
friendly, my adversary taking me by the hand, called me 
brother, and said, " All the hurt I wish you, light upon my 
wife and children j and so farewell." 



THE lord's prayer. 243 

CHAPTER XXXIV. 
THE FRENCH PRIEST AGAIN. 

1705. 



THE lord's prayer. 

On the lOtli we returned over the river to Major Thomas 
Jordan's to dispute the French priest (for he had there 
appointed it); where many people were assembled on that 
occasion. The time appointed was nine in the morning, and 
he came not till twelve ; so that many of his party seemed to 
doubt his coming, and were troubled; they having great 
dependence upon him as their only remaining champion in 
those parts. But, at length, he came; and the first saluta- 
tion I gave him was a gentle reproof for delaying so long after 
the time appointed by himself, which he endeavored to excuse ; 
though the real meaning of it was taken to be, to shorten the 
time, so that night at least might end the controversy, into 
which he had been so unwillingly brought. 

A long table being placed in the middle of Major Jordan's 
hall, and one of us on each side, we were quickly surrounded 
by a crowding multitude; and being very hot weather, we were 
ready to be stifled : But though I had at that time a great 
pain in my right side and breast, so that I could not well draw 
breath, but with sharp stitches the day before, and that morn- 
ing ; yet the Lord gave me ease, at that time, and strength to 
my own desire. 

My antagonist, being very volatile, made his assault instantly, 
without a word of any preliminaries, or state of any question, 
and thus attacked me : " Why do not you, the people called 
Quakers, use the Lord's prayer in your assemblies ? I prove 
that Christ taught his disciples this prayer (offering to read 



244 T. story's conversations, etc. 

it)j and commanded them to pray so } and I also prove, that 
they who do not use it are no Christians : but you never use 
it ; because if you did, you must then pray for forgiveness of 
your sins, which your own supposed righteousness will not 
allow: You are therefore none of his disciples: you are no 
Christians." 

Upon this I gave the auditory a short relation of the occa- 
sion and circumstances of that engagement, and of the first 
meeting he opposed me in, and of the proceedings since to 
that time, to the end they might know the true state of the 
matter ; and that the magistracy (many of them being present) 
might be satisfied, whatever might be the issue, that not I, 
but my opponent, was the first mover and contriver of it. 
That so no blame might appear on my part on that account : 
and that I might check and avoid the liberty he assumed, to 
impose questions at his pleasure, without my assent to a regu- 
lar stating of them, so as to relate to the known principles and 
practice on each side. This displeased my adversary for two 
reasons : 1st, In that he imagined I had intended to renew 
the whole matters and question concerning freedom from sin, 
in which he had been so fully worsted before; which I did 
not mean, though his manner of proceeding, in part renewed 
it again. And, 2dly, Because he thought I intended thereby 
to evade his question and matter; wherein he imagined he 
had so great advantage : and therefore he interrupted me, 
saying, " What is this to the purpose T' 

I replied. Though it is nothing to thy purpose, it is to mine : 
And now I answer directly to thy question, and say, that the 
charge is founded upon a false suggestion ; for though we do 
not frequently use the very words of that prayer in our meet- 
ings, as the manner of some is, yet we sometimes use it ver- 
batim, and often the sum of it in other terms ; and we often 
likewise explain the nature, end, and substance of it in our 
meetings, for the information and edification of the people ; 
and how can we explain it, and not first rehearse it ? And 
how canst thou say we never repeat it, having been at so very 
few of our meetings? He repHed, "1 never heard you; and 



THE lord's prayer. 245 

who else here ever did ?" Then arose a voice and cloud of 
witnesses, both Friends and others, saying, " I have, I have, 
I have •/' and amongst the rest, a lawyer said, " I have heard 
Joseph Glaistcr, now present, in particular, use it, and others 
also." '' then," said the priest, " I have no more to say on 
that account." 

Then I informed the auditory, that though we sometimes 
used that prayer in form and often the substance of it in other 
words in our supplications to the Almighty ; yet it was not 
proper for the state of every man to use it, nor to be done in 
men's own wills and times ; when, and as often as we please : 
for there is a qualification necessary to be known in them who 
use it rightly with acceptance : For though all men be the 
children and offspring of God by creation, yet none can call 
God Father, truly, in an evangelical sense, but such who have 
the evidence of the Spirit of God, that they are at least, be- 
gotten of him by the influence of his divine word and Holy 
Spirit; and must be come to a good degree of righteousness, 
and holiness also, by the sensible operation of the Holy Spirit, 
in their own hearts : And as to the praying therein for the 
forgiveness of sins (as he hath suggested that we reckon our- 
selves so perfect and righteous, that we do not need to pray 
for forgiveness), that is not necessary to every state ; for as 
the apostles, though called of Christ unto that great work, yet 
were not thoroughly converted at that time when so taught to 
pray, and might have some sinful infirmities remaining, not 
perfectly subdued ; yet as they knew the Lord Jesus to be 
the Messiah, the propitiation for their sins, and had the evi- 
dence of his Holy Spirit that all their sins were already par- 
doned, and could justly call him, ''The Lord our righteous- 
ness; wonderful Counsellor; the mighty God; the everlasting 
Father ; the Prince of Peace ;" there was no reason for such 
to pray for the forgiveness of their sins, having already ob- 
tained it of God the Father, through his infinite goodness and 
mercy in Christ the Lord ; and even so it is now. 

I added, that there has been much bitter contest among 
Protestants, and others, about that prayer; several sects of 
21^ 



246 T. story's conversations, etc. 

dissenters from the natioual forms, both Presbyterians, Inde- 
pendents, and Baptists, arguing, that if men use the substance 
of it, though in other words, it is sufficient ; making it rather, 
as it were, a text for prayer, than a proper prayer in all cases, 
or necessary to be used in so many words : And the variety of 
forms of prayer in your own ^' Common Prayer Book," shows 
that you yourselves do not think it is. And notwithstanding 
that form of prayer, the Apostle Paul, who was not ignorant 
of it, saith, long after it was given, '^ Likewise the Spirit also 
helpeth our infirmities ; for we know not what we should pray 
for as we ought ; but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for 
us, with groanings which cannot be uttered ; and he that 
seareheth the hearts, knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit ; 
because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the 
will of God.'' So that here it is evident, that as this form of 
prayer especially, and other forms, as fruits of the Holy 
Spirit, may be of use unto men while they are not thoroughly 
sanctified ; but being sanctified, then the immediate influence 
and assistance of the Holy Spirit of Christ, the only Mediator 
and intercessor between God and man, is most to be waited 
for and relied upon, in all our duties toward God, whether 
prayer, praises, preaching, or any other part of divine worship 
and service : and ye profane even that prayer itself, by so 
many vain and needless repetitions of it, without either the 
Spirit or understanding what you say ; or so much as belief 
of the possibility of obtaining what you would seem to pray 
for therein ; and " what is not of faith is sin/' 

Now as to the introduction, or address of that prayer of 
prayers, it is to the Almighty, as he is the Father of all ; with 
acknowledgment that his habitation is in Heaven, above all. 
And the first petition is, that his name (or by what word 
soever the Divine Being is meant, expressed, or designed) 
may be mentioned with reverenoe and awe, as the most holy 
thing; and not blasphemed, lightly used, profaned, or taken 
in vain. And the second petition is, that his kingdom, rule, 
dominion, and government, may come, be made manifest, and 
established over all the earth, and every soul therein, througlv 



THE lord's prayer. 247 

out all generations, as explained by the next words therein, 
that is to say, " Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven j" 
which implies the highest degree of perfection and exaltation 
human nature is capable of in this life : for, if the will or law 
of God is to be done on earth as in heaven, then there can be 
no more possibility of sin, unrighteousnesSj or evil, among the 
children of men, to the end of the world ; for the expression 
is unlimited, including all persons, ages, and times : And al^ 
the holy angels of God in heaven, and the spirits of the jus 
made perfect, continually and for ever do the will of God to 
all perfection, in which also standeth their life eternal : And 
we are here taught to pray, that it may likewise be the same 
here on earth. And the next petition in this divine and most 
perfect prayer, regardeth ourselves, with respect to our present 
personal divine nourishment and sustenance while here on 
earth, and for ever : and that is, '' Give us this day our daily 
bread ;" even the true bread which the Father giveth from 
heaven, the bread of life, which giveth life unto the world, 
of which mankind may eat and not die; the living bread 
which comes down from heaven, of which whosoever shall eat, 
he shall live for ever; which is likewise that flesh which 
Christ giveth for the life of the world; and unto him whoso- 
ever shall come shall not hunger nor thirst any more. This 
is that ever-living and heavenly bread which giveth life unto 
the world. This is the hidden manna, more excellent than 
that in the wilderness : The tree of life, which is in the midst 
of the paradise of God. By the breaking of this bread is the 
Son of God made manifest unto him who eateth thereof, to be 
that meat which endureth unto everlasting life. This is the 
game heavenly bread which the apostles and primitives loved, 
desired, and prayed for, that they might be continual partakers 
of it; and which we also have prayed for, do pray for, and 
have been, and still are, mercifully and graciously heard of 
the Holy One, unto whom we do pray. By this bread we 
grow and increase from state to state, from stature to stature, 
and from strength to strength unto eternal life, and everlast- 
ing establishment and perfection in glory, in and with him 



248 T. story's conversations, etc. 

who livetli and reigneth over all, in all, and above all, and is 
worthy for evermore. 

The next petition is, " Forgive us our trespasses, as we for- 
give them who trespass against us." This petition also is 
suited to general or universal communion : for as all have 
sinned, and come short of the glory of Grod, all, and every one 
ought, being convinced of sin by the Holy Spirit, to confess 
their sins unto him who convinceth them, and to desire for- 
giveness : whether of God for sins committed against him, or 
for trespasses done, one against another : and in both cases, 
confession is to be made unto the offended, and forgiveness 
requested, before we can reasonably expect it, whether of God 
or man. For as to our sins against God, it is said, " If we 
confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, 
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness and sin/^ And as 
to our trespasses one against another, it is said, ^' If thy bro- 
ther shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault be- 
tween him and thee alone; if he shall hear thee, thou hast 
gained thy brother," &c. Or, again : '^ If thy brother tres- 
pass against thee, rebuke him, and if he repent, forgive him." 
And as God is merciful unto all, so he would have us all mer- 
ciful one to another ; and therefore Christ the Lord comment- 
eth upon this petition in an especial manner, saying, ^' If ye 
forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also 
forgive you ; but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither 
will your Heavenly Father forgive your trespasses." In all 
which the Lord teacheth us to be , like himself, full of good- 
ness, mercy, and social virtue, doing the will of the Father on 
earth as it is done in heaven, in a state of restoration, redemp- 
tion, righteousness, and true holiness, the end whereof is life 
eternal : which is opposite to a state of sin, in the nature of 
things, and the end of the coming and manifestation of the 
Son of God. 

The next petition is, " Lead us not into temptation, but 
deliver us from evil." Jesus, when he was baptized, went up 
straightway out of the water, and lo, the heavens were opened 
unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a 



THE lord's prayer. 249 

dove, and lighting upon him; and lo, a voice from heaven, 
saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit, into the wilderness, to 
be tempted of the devil.'' Mankind, in general, being already 
in sin, and under condemnation in the first Adam, and Jesus 
the Saviour only free, being the Lamb of God, without spot 
or blemish ; it was necessary in the council of the Father, that 
he should be tempted of the evil one, the common enemy and 
tempter of mankind; that thereby, even as man, he might 
have a fellow-feeling of our weakness and infirmities, and be 
the supporter of such as should believe and trust in him, and 
be tempted of evil; which petition is also obtained by those 
who are his through faith in his name : For as God tempteth 
no man, nor is he himself tempted of evil, those who are 
tempted are led aside of their own lusts, and enticed ; so he 
suffereth none of his " to be tempted above what they are 
able, but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, 
that they may be able to bear it" (and it is no sin to be tempt- 
ed unless we yield ;) which temptations are sufi'ered upon those 
who believe, and are thereby become the children of God, that 
they may have full trial of the manifold grace of God towards 
them ; their faith, patience, and love toward God, and one 
toward another in him ; and experience his blessing upon them, 
and come forth from under the weight and burdens of tempta- 
tion, as from the furnace of afflictions, as pure gold seven 
times tried therein ; and not as reprobate silver or dross, 
remaining as we are by nature, in a sinful, sensual, polluted 
condition ; ever learniog, and never able to come to the know- 
ledge of the truth or salvation by him. 

The last and concluding part, is a just and sincere acknow- 
ledgment unto the Father, that we can do nothing without him, 
but by him ; " for his is the kingdom, and the power,'^ to 
enter therein, by which alone we can do all these things and 
our whole duty unto his holy requirings, whether with respect 
unto the Lord himself, or one toward another, as we ought : 
And, therefore, as we have no power, or self-sufficiency of our 
own, no glory or praise belongeth unto us for the work required 



250 T. story's conversations, etc. 

and wrouglit, Dor for any works of supererogation, or imaginary 
self-additions, either during our conduct and abode in this 
world, or in the world to come. And so this matter rested 
without reply. 

Now, said I, it is my right to propose the next subject- 
matter to discourse upon ; and therefore I ask thee this ques- 
tion, Whether or no did Christ, or any of his apostles, demand, 
force, or receive any maintenance or thing, from any person or 
people, who did not receive or own them and their ministry ? 
iVnd when did the Son of God give power unto any of the 
princes or powers of the earth, to concern themselves, or inter- 
meddle with the proper affairs of his kingdom; which is not 
of this world ? or ..to ordain ministers in his Church ? or 
appoint, direct, or assign them any support or maintenance ? 

James Burtell assumes the affirmative, and Thomas Story 
denies it : And agreed, that the matters shall be determined 
by express Scripture proof only, or by fair, natural, and un- 
forced consequences deducted from thence. 

James Burtell having assumed the affirmative, offered his 
proofs as followeth : " The apostles and ministers of Christ, 
being sent to preach the Gospel, were to live and be maintained 
by it; as plainly appeareth by the doctrine of the Apostle Paul 
on that subject, where he saith, * Who goeth a warfare any 
time at his own charges? Who planteth a vineyard, and 
eateth not of the fruit thereof? Or who feedeth a flock, and 
eateth not of the milk of the flock ? Thou shalt not muzzle 
the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn.' Again, ' If 
we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if 
we shall reap your carnal things ? Do ye not know, that they 
who minister about holy things live of the things of the 
temple ; and they who wait at the altar, are partakers with the 
altar/ And those Scriptures the apostle expressly applieth to 
the maintenance of the apostles and ministers of Christ, in 
preaching the Gospel, and exercising their ministry, in the 
various branches thereof, according to their several callings 
and gifts. And this they claimed, not only as voluntary con- 
tributions or donations at the option of the people, but of 



TIIK lord's I'RAYKU. 251 

T\ix\\t, by virtue of the power they had over them, and as an 
ordinance of the Lord, that they who preach the Gospel should 
live of the Gospel." 

I answered, This is a sophistical way of reasoning, and doth 
not answer the first part of the question for which he adduceth 
it, nor proves his assumption therein : For that part of the 
question is, Whether Christ or his apostles did ever demand 
force, or receive any maintenance from any who did not 
receive or own them and their ministry ? (which is the case 
between your ministers and us). And not whether any sup- 
port or maintenance at all be due of right, to the apostles and 
ministers of Christ, from the people who receive them as such, 
and believe in Christ as the Messiah and Saviour of the world. 
But he only attempts to prove, that some support or mainte- 
nance (but saith not what or how) is due to the apostles and 
ministers of Christ in preaching the Gospel (which we have 
never denied), by which he would elude that part of the ques- 
tion, and impose upon us a fallacious and pretended proof of 
what is not therein : For these texts of Scripture do not prove 
such a maintenance due, even to the true ministers of Christ, 
or to be had by such means as your ministers now demand, 
exact, and receive them ; not only from such as believe they 
are ministers of Christ, but likewise from us, and others, who 
do not believe it ; being assured, that no such wages, hire, or 
maintenance as they demand, is due unto any ministers of 
Christ, and much less to them, by any command or ordinance of 
Christ, or doctrine or example of his apostles : For when Christ 
first sent forth bis twelve apostles, it was in the power and 
wisdom of his own Spirit ; in which they had power to preach, 
to heal sicknesses, and cast out devils and unclean spirits. 

And, as to their protection and maintenance, they were to 
depend immediately and absolutely upon the providence of 
God, and travel in that work, under great natural disadvan- 
tages. For they were not to provide beforehand, either gold, 
or silver, or brass in their purses, nor scrip, or two coats apiece, 
nor shoes, nor stafi's (except one only), nor bread. 

And when the Lord appointed other seventy, and sent them 



252 T. story's conversations, etc. 

likewise by two and two, they also were prohibited to carry 
with them either purse, or scrip, or shoes. And as to any 
reward from men, either for preaching, healing, or any other 
part of their work, they were not to have any, save their meat; 
for as the power was, and is, of God only, they were not to 
make an advantage or gain of it to themselves; and therefore 
he said unto them, ^' Freely ye have received, freely give." 
Yet the workman is worthy of his meat. Neither were the 
seventy to have other wages from those to whom they preached, 
or healed, than the twelve had ; that is, to eat and drink such 
things as they to whom they preached gave or set before them. 
And when they returned to give account of their service, the 
Lord increased their power, as a further encouragement in 
their labor. 

Neither were they to have protection from any temporal 
power (such powers being universally against them), but, on 
the contrary, were sent forth as sheep among wolves, and 
cautioned against the cruelties of men : Neither were they to 
premeditate what to say, when brought before governors and 
kings for the sake of Christ and his testimony; but to depend 
upon the immediate assistance of the Spirit of God in them- 
selves. By all which it is evident, that the apostles and 
ministers of Christ were not, and are not, to demand, force, 
have, or receive any other maintenance or thiug from any, 
save only their meat, drink, and personal necessaries, during 
the time of their ministry ; which clearly explains the doctrine 
of the Apostle Paul in all those texts now adduced by your 
minister : that is, that no other way of maintenance is ordained 
or allowed to the apostles and ministers of Christ, or to live of 
the Gospel, than their meat, drink, and reasonable and neces- 
sary sustenance, in the exercise of their ministry; and from 
them only who receive them as ministers of Christ, and give 
it freely. 

But, though this be a privilege given and due to the apos- 
tles and ministers of Christ, what is that to thee and you 't 
Who hath made you ministers of Christ ? Who sent you ? And 
to do what ? (for they who run when God sendeth them not, 



THE lord's prayer. 253 

do not profit the people in the things of God at all). Whose 
workmen are ye ? And who hath assigned unto you wages ? 
and what? What have you freely received; and from whom? 
And what can you freely give ? And unto what cities or 
towns have you travelled in the service of the Gospel of 
Christ ? What warfare are you in ? What vineyards have 
you planted? and what fruit do your plantations yield ? and 
what flock do ye feed? and what corn, or tares, do ye tread 
out? and what corn have you threshed, or fields ploughed? 
and what spiritual things have ye sown ; and unto whom ? 
For if ye reap where ye do not sow, ye are not servants of 
Christ, hut hard masters, usurping domination over the ser- 
vants of Christ, and the rest of mankind; extorting, though 
by a law, carnal things, where you sow no spiritual; and from 
those, too, who do not receive you, nor your ministry; from 
whom ye ought to receive nothing, if you were ministers of 
Christ, but " to shake off the dust of your feet as a testimony 
against them ?" 

And what holy things do ye minister? and to whom ? and 
in what temple? and what altar do ye serve? and what Gospel 
do ye preach ; and by what authority ? For the words or talk 
of the Gospel, though true, are not the Gospel ; for the Gos- 
pel stands not in words only, but in power : And why should 
you live of the Gospel (or some words of it mixed with your 
own, which ye call so), seeing the apostles, and true ministers 
of Christ, were not otherwise to live thereon (as to temporals), 
than as I have related, according to the testimony of the Holy 
Scriptures ? And why do not you, as the apostles did, work 
with your hands, that the Gospel might not be chargeable ? 
And under what necessity are you to preach ? And who laid 
it upon you? And are you under any other wo, but from the 
voice of your own importunate bellies, if you preach not some- 
thing? And are ye willing to be servants unto all, that ye 
may gain many unto God; or much rather to domineer and 
insult over all, that you may gain abundance of the riches, 
preferments, honors, glory, and other carnal things of this 
world ; and under false pretences to the Gospel, and by evil 
22 



254 T. story's conversations, etc. 

example of life, and false doctrine of " sin term of life, and 
heaven in the end," lead such as will follow you into final per- 
dition ? 

James Burtell replied in short, ^' Notwithstanding what hath 
been said, this apostle, and consequently the rest, must have 
had support from the believers in those days ; for, he saith, 
' I have robbed other churches, taking wages of them to do 
you service/ '^ 

I answered, It is to be observed, that the several churches 
or congregations in those days, had certain common public 
stocks or funds, out of which the necessary charges of the 
ministry, in preaching the Gospel, were defrayed, and the 
needs of the poor saints supplied ; which arose from the love, 
good-will, and charity of the believers in Christ; every one 
giving, without any other law or compulsion, according to his 
own free-will and purpose; which began in Christ, and his 
twelve apostles, by the love and gratitude of those who had 
been great sinners, or under personal maladies, and forgiven 
and healed by him : For it is testified by Luke the Evangelist, 
*' that certain women, who had been healed of evil spirits, and 
infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven 
devils, and Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and 
Susannah, and many others, ministered unto him of their sub- 
stance :" And they had a common purse, or bag, which was 
carried and managed by the most unworthy among them, by 
Judas, the thief and traitor ; out of which they sometimes, as 
they had occasion, bought bread and necessaries for them- 
selves, and likewise gave to the poor : but nothing was particu- 
larly appropriated, either to Christ himself, or any of his 
apostles, save what covetous and unfaithful Judas might rob 
them of, and steal : And as the disciples increased and multi- 
plied in number, so did this order and usage, with respect both 
to giving and receiving, and to the same happy ends and pur- 
poses, for the promulgation and propagation of the Gospel of 
Christ, and salvation unto mankind by him, and exercise of 
charity as a great fruit of his coming ; and not to appropriate 
any part to any particular person, like Judas, greedy of filthy 



THE lord's prayer. 255 

lucre, or Balaam, " who loved the wages of unrighteousness/' 
to the enriching of themselves and families, at the expense of 
the Church : as happened among them, in process of time, 
and remaineth among you, by succession, unto this day. 

And as to the apostle's robbing other churches and taking 
wages of them to serve the Corinthians, it is only an elegancy 
of speech (for he was learned, and an orator), and no way im- 
porteth that he appropriated to his own separate use anything 
he received on account of his ministry, but that when he first 
preached unto them of Corinth, he was not chargeable to 
any man, but did it freely, as to them ; his necessities, and 
charges of his travels to them, and his ministry, being at the 
same time supplied and sustained at the charge of the Church 
in Macedonia; which had been settled before them, or by 
some brethren who came to him from thence : And as in all 
things he had kept himself from being burdensome unto them, 
so he resolved to continue to keep himself; intending thereby 
to cut off all occasion of reproach by certain false apostles then 
among them (as there were many such, of the Jewish race, in 
other churches, or congregations, likewise in those days, in 
whom the church of antichrist, or synagogue of Satan then 
began) ; who were deceitful workers, transforming themselves, 
as many do at this day (succeeding them in the same way and 
works), into the likeness of the apostles of Christ, the minis- 
ters of righteousness. And the Apostle Paul was so far from 
receiving anything unto himself, or for his own private sepa- 
rate use, for, or in respect of his ministry, or exercise of it, 
that he commonly wrought with his hands to that end, being 
a tent-maker; and, towards his latter end, taking his last and 
solemn leave of some elders, who had the oversight of the flock 
of Christ in those parts, and, in appeal to their knowledge of 
him, and his conduct on that account, and to excite them by 
his example to. the like practice, he saith, '^ I have coveted no 
man's silver, or gold, or apparel; yea, ye yourselves know that 
these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them 
who were with me : I have showed you all things, how, that 
so laboring, ye ought to support the weak, and to remember 



256 T. story's conversations, etc. 

the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed 
to give than to receive :'' whieli were the last, and as it were, 
the dying words of the apostle to them. 

To this the priest answered, "I do affirm that where the 
people are so cold and unreasonable, that they will not con- 
tribute willingly to the support of the ministry, it is the duty 
of all emperors, kings, princes, and powers, to force them to 
contribute and pay; and to afford them a proper, plentiful, 
and honorable maintenance, for themselves and families.'^ 

I answered. Do I hear thee right : dost thou say, that those 
temporal powers of the earth are obliged to force, and compel 
such to pay and contribute to the support of a ministry, in 
matters of religion, they cannot, and do not receive, bear, nor 
believe ? '' Yea,^' said he, with a continued haughty priestly 
air, "■ all within their dominions, whether they will hear or 
no : And beside, where laws are made by governments, you 
and all men thereunder, are obliged in conscience to obey and 
perform them." 

I replied, But remember ^Hhat I do affirm," though ever so 
warmly pronounced, is no proof from the Scripture, nor reason- 
ably deducible from thence, that all laws made by temporal 
powers and governments are binding upon men's consciences 
in matters of religion : or that emperors, kings, and princes, or 
any form of legislature whatever, have any power from God to 
make any laws concerning the Church of Christ, or the 
Christian religion, to be binding upon the conscience of any; 
for the Church of Christ, being his kingdom in this world, 
though not of the world, is independent, as such, on them and 
their laws, in matters of religion (though subject unto them 
and their just laws, in matters merely of civil right) ; but it 
standeth firm forever, upon its own immovable foundation, the 
eternal rock of divine Truth, under the sole and immediate 
rule of the Holy Spirit of the Son of God. 

To this he offered no other reply, than to repeat his asser- 
tion in like terms, " that the temporal powers have full autho- 
rity and right in the case; and upon them," said he, '^we 
will leave it." 



THE lord's prayer. 257 

I answered, This I perceive is the plain English of the 
matter, that the arbitrary authority of temporal powers is your 
only standing argument ; which you will no longer insist upon 
than where those powers favor your own interests : But I 
oppose a negative to this thy position, That all laws made by 
emperors, kings, princes, potentates, powers, and legislatures 
of the world, concerning matters of the Christian faith and 
religion, neither are, or ever were, binding upon the con- 
sciences of the true and faithful members of the Church of 
Christ. 

For, 1st, in the case of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, 
when he erected a golden image, and dedicated it to his false 
god, before the princes, governors, captains, judges, treasurers, 
counsellors, sheriffs, and all the rulers of his many provinces, 
and they stood before it, when a herald made proclamation to 
the people of the nations and languages, under this mighty, 
arbitrary, despotic king, that, at the sound of his instruments 
of music, they should all fall down and worship that image, on 
pain of being cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace : 
And accordingly all his people obeyed and worshipped the 
image. 

And as the children of this world, born after the flesh 
only, in a natural state, have through all ages, envied, hated, 
and persecuted the children of light; so informers of such 
kind soon informed the king of the disobedience of Shadrach, 
Meshach, and Abednego, children of the captivity, and faith- 
ful servants of the only true and living God; who boldly and 
nobly refused to worship the image, which this proud, power- 
ful, furious, self-exalting, and blasphemous tyrant had set up: 
telling him to his face, '• they were not careful to answer him 
in that matter," though they were some of his chief ministers 
of state, and in great reputation with him in the affairs of his 
civil government ; but loving, fearing, and honoring their God, 
and trusting in him, who they knew was able, and that he 
would deliver them, and yet in humble submission and resig- 
nation to his will, in case the Lord should not think fit to do 

it, they, with a magnanimity becoming the servants of the 
90 * 



258 T. story's con vers A.TIONS, ETC. 

Almighty, answered the king in plain terms, " Be it known 
unto thee, king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship 
the golden image which thou hast set up :" and they, being 
faithful in their trial, the decree of the tyrant was executed 
upon them ; wherein they had the honor of the divine com- 
pany of the Son of God, and his protection 3 by whom they 
were delivered from the voracious fury of an enraged king, 
and intense force of an aggravated furnace, to the surprise, 
astonishment, admiration, and humiliation of the king, and 
wonder and regret of his advisers, their enemies. 

And being thus delivered, they then obeyed the lawful 
command of the king; they came unto him when he called 
them; and then by the faithfulness of these worthies, the 
most powerful king in that day (and few, if any, so great 
since) gave glory to the only true God, saying, " Blessed be 
the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent 
his angel, and delivered his servants who trusted in him, and 
have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies that 
they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own 
God : And therefore he made a decree, that every people, na- 
tion, and language, which should speak anything against the 
God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, should be cut in 
pieces, and their houses made a dunghill; because there is no 
other God who can deliver after this sort. And so far were 
they from losing the king's favor by their faithfulness unto 
God, that they were further promoted by him in the affairs of 
Babylon. 

Here is a very clear and authentic instance where con- 
science toward God, in his faithful servants, opposed the law, 
command, and decree, of one of the greatest kings, to the glory 
of the King of kings, whose counsel they obeyed therein. 

Again, 2dly, Daniel, because of his wisdom and integrity, 
being preferred to the first state of the kingdom by Darius, 
above one hundred and twenty princes, and two other presi- 
dents, was envied by them ; who seeking occasion against him 
concerning his office, and finding none, they contrived a way 
to come at him concerning the law of his God, and, by their 



THE lord's prayer. 259 

subtle counsel, to deceive the king, so as " to establisli a royal 
statute, and make a firm decree, that whosoever should ask a 
petition of any god or man, for thirty days, save of the king, 
should be cast into the den of lions." And Daniel, though 
he knew of this decree, was not deterred thereby from doing 
his duty to his God; and therefore '^ went into his house, and 
his windows being open in his chamber towards Jerusalem, he 
kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and 
gave thanks before his God as he did aforetime :" And his 
enemies watching, found him so doing; and then they in- 
formed the kino; of his disobedience, and aoo-ravated it unto 
him, so that Daniel might be destroyed; and the king, too 
late, perceived how he had been circumvented and deceived 
by his princes, nobles, and counsellors, to make that decree in 
envy against Daniel, which nevertheless was executed upon 
him ; and yet, through faith in God, the mouths of the lions 
were shut, so that they could not hurt him : But his enemies 
being justly cast unto the same lions, they were quickly de- 
voured as a proper reward of their envy and cruelty against 
an innocent servant of the true God ; who, in the conclusion 
of all, was magnified above all, by a public decree of that great 
king, " that over all his dominion men should fear and trem- 
ble before the God of Daniel :" So that in this great instance 
also, men's consciences towards God are not bound by the laws 
of men ; yet the same persons, who, at the hazard of their 
lires, disobey the unjust laws of men, readily obey and exe- 
cute the laws and ordinances of men when they are just, and 
for the common good, and that also for conscience' sake. 

And, odly. The Lord Jesus Christ himself suffered under 
pretence of a law, against whom there was no law; for he 
obeyed all the righteous laws, both of Jews and Romans, so 
far as his condition in the world subjected him to them : For 
though he was and is the peaceable Saviour, and came not to 
destroy men's lives, but to save them, yet, in obedience to the 
laws of men, where not opposite, or interfering with the law 
of God, he nrought a miracle to pay a poll tax ; where, in 
strictness, the law did not require it of him, nor of his disci- 



260 T. story's conversations, etc. 

pies : for having Roman privileges by virtue of an old league 
between the Jews and Romans, whereby they were as children, 
and not strangers ; nevertheless, to obviate all occasion of 
offence, he submitted to it, though only an ordinance of men, 
and his apostles likewise, as an example to his Church, through 
all ages to come. 

And the apostles and ministers of Christ bare witness unto 
him, and preached the Grospel, contrary to the laws, customs, 
and ordinances, both of Jews and Gentiles; by which they 
suffered all things for his name's sake, as thousands have done 
through all ages since that day, and still do until now; though 
no magistrate, in the days of the apostles, if any since, so 
rightly and plainly distinguished between what was, and is 
properly cognisable before the civil state, and what was not, as 
Gallio did ; who said unto the Jews, in case of their great 
uproar against Paul, " If it were a matter of wrong or wicked 
lewdness, ye Jews, reason would that I should bear with 
you, but if it be a question of words or names, and of your law 
(a matter touching your religion only), look ye to it; for I 
will be no judge of such matters. And he drove them from 
the judgment seat.'* 

Again, 4thly, When Dioclesian, Maxiraian, those despotic 
Roman heathen emperors, and their Caesar's colleagues, began 
the tenth persecution against the Christians, and issued their 
arbitrary decrees and edicts against them, and the Christian 
faith and religion ; determining to root out the very name 
and thing Christian from under heaven, and to restore their 
own false gods and idolatry; requiring all to renounce the 
true God, and Jesus Christ the Son of God, and Saviour of 
the world ; and to deliver up into their hands, all the books, 
writings, goods, and things belonging to the Christians in 
those days, and their worship ; and to worship the false and 
imaginary gods of the heathens, yet, though these tyrants 
were lawful rulers of the Roman state, according to the con- 
stitution thereof, as then established, and had the exercise of 
the civil government, and the Christians throughout the empire 
were subject to them therein, as well as their own heathen 



THE lord's prayer. 2G1 

people ', yet when these tyrants made laws, decrees, and edicts, 
contrary to the Christian faith and religion, no true Christian 
thought himself bound in conscience to obey them ; and there- 
fore all the faithful in those days refused it, and were there- 
fore persecuted and destroyed with unspeakable cruelty; under 
which the true and living God, and Jesus Christ his Son, 
whom they worshipped and obeyed, sustained them, to the 
total overthrow of all those adversaries of God and his people, 
and that government and power in the end, and to the glory 
of God and our Saviour. 

But it is observable, that great part of the Christians them- 
selves, of all orders, at that time (or such as were under that 
sacred name) were in a state of degeneracy when that persecu- 
tion began; and such, not being upon the true foundation, 
could not stand so great and lasting a storm ; in which the 
greatest part of them who were tried, especially those who 
had placed themselves in the highest stations in the congrega- 
tions, as the bishops and elders, apostatized and complied with 
those laws and edicts, and openly renounced the true God and 
the Lord Christ, and treacherously delivered up unto the 
heathen whatever was in their custody, trust, and power to 
yield; whereby they did not only basely and cowardly save 
themselves from the destruction and desolation which the 
faithful sustained, but thereby brought the load so much the 
heavier upon them : And yet, when the next succeeding 
emperor, Constantine, came upon the throne, and declared 
himself a Christian, and restored their privileges, with many 
additions and immunities, those detestable hypocrites and 
apostates, unjustly and unreasonably usurped, and resumed, 
by force of numbers, the stations, offices, and places which 
they formerly had in the congregations : And being opposed 
therein by the faithful, who branded them with a name of 
distinction, suiting their actions, calling them traditors, would 
have no communion with them ; but they being much more 
numerous than the faithful, and more subservient to the ends 
of human state, by receding from the strict rules of the Spirit, 
Church, and kingdom of Christ, they united themselves with 



262 T. story's conversations, etc. 

the Roman temporal power : and as the greatest part of all 
fallen nataral men, as well as the princes among them, do 
ardently lust after power and dominion, and the boundless 
increase of it to themselves, they prevailed with Constantine 
(who at that time knew little or nothing of the constitution of 
the Church of Christ, with which he ought not to have 
meddled, not being under his jurisdiction and rule as such) to 
call a general council of the Christians throughout the empire, 
there never having been a general, but only provincial councils, 
before that time; in which council, the apostate company of 
hypocrites, under the power and authority of a temporal prince, 
who, as such, had no power in the Church of Christ, being 
most numerous, self-assuming, and audacious, they thereby 
outvoted, suppressed, and oppressed the faithful ; and so began, 
set up, and gradually established an united temporal and pre- 
tended spiritual power and kingdom in the earth, under the 
name and pretence of the Church and kingdom of Christ ; but 
was really and indeed the first visible and open appearance of 
the kingdom of Antichrist : which, under the umbrage and dis- 
guise of the usurped name of the Church and kingdom of 
Christ, hath acted and perpetrated the most cruel murders and 
destructions against the faithful servants of Christ, in all ages 
since, not short of, but rather exceeding, those of the most 
barbarous heathens, even until this day, and that not without 
tyrannical antichristian laws, canons and ordinances, pretences 
and edicts, of their own inventing and forming : Witness their 
cruelties and murders of the Albigenses, Waldenses, Wick- 
lifists, Lollards, and by whatsoever names of reproach their 
envy prompted them to call the faithful in all ages and coun- 
tries since : And likewise the jnore modern, as Lutherans, 
Calvinists, and other Protestants, in the ages wherein they 
severally arose. In France, under that king, thousands were 
murdered : In England, under King Henry VIII., and Queen 
Mary, many thousands were massacred by Papists, and all by 
laws and edicts made by the murderers themselves, upon pre- 
tence of religion, contrary to the true nature and end of that 
religion they falsely pretended to support and propagate. 



THE lord's prayer. 263 

And, last of all, we, who are called, in scorn, Quakers, have, 
in this present age, and last century, been cruelly persecuted 
under the usurpation of Oliver Cromwell, and his priests ; and 
some hanged at Boston, in New England, by the Presbyterians : 
and in the reign of King Charles II., the luxurious head of 
the National Church of England, many thousands of us were 
deeply persecuted there, in our native country (where we had, 
and have, natural rights as other men), by laws for banish- 
ment, imprisonment till death, spoiling and confiscating of 
goods and estates in lands, beatings, scourgings, and cruel 
mockings and abuses, by the magistrates, in the exercise of 
their ofi&ces, perverted and misapplied upon us ; only for our 
testimony to the only true God, who is eternal, intellectual, 
divine light, and to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Word and Son 
of God, the second Adam, and quickening Spirit; the true 
and saving light, " which lighteth every man who cometh into 
the world." All which violence was exercised upon us by 
the instigation of the priests of that monarch, and their votaries 
and creatures ; the faithful, in all ages and places, under what 
name soever, patiently sufi"ering cruel punishments and abuses 
for their conscience toward.s God, and Christ the Lord, by the 
spirit and power of antichrist, ruling in the priests of all sorts 
and names ; whereby and subtlety thereof, they deceived the 
rulers, and excited them to make unrighteous laws concerning 
religion j which is not their proper business nor work, as 
relative to the kingdom of Christ and another world ; but civil 
rule and government only, as an ordinance of God in the king- 
doms of men, for the better rule of this world. 

But those laws, made on pretence of religion, are generally 
for the giving, increasing, advancing, and establishing of 
power in the priests of all nations, and their dominion over the 
consciences of mankind, and their increase in the riches, 
honors, pleasures, and glory of the world, and not for the 
honor and glory of God only : The sufferings of the faithful 
in Christ therefore, in all ages, have not arose from the breach 
of any laws relating only to civil government, which they do 
readily observe and conscientiously obey ; but in a testimony 



264 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

for God, and the kingdom of Cbrist on earth, against all anti- 
christian priestcraft, power, domination, and impositions, in 
every degree and form; and that the divine power of the 
Christian faith and religion, may be restored in its purity; 
the civil powers divested of, and freed from the cunning and 
subtle wiles, designs, impositions, and ruinous practices of 
antichristian priestcraft; and that equity, justice, truth, and 
tranquillity, may be restored and settled on earth among the 
children of men : which never can be whilst priestcraft, in 
any form or pretence, rules and is exalted in the world ; and 
therefore ought to be fully and finally extruded, and secluded 
from every form of legislature in the earth, that God and his 
Christ may rule alone in the kingdoms of men, by his wisdom 
and power; that the earth may regain her Sabbaths, and the 
people their rest, in the divine love and goodness of God ; in 
which all nations, people, and tongues may be united, as in 
that holy and universal language, which speaks the same 
thing, and is well understood of all, and in all : and so it must 
be in the proper time and way of the Almighty: "not by 
might, nor by power (of man), but my Spirit, saith the Lord, 
will I bring this wonder to pass in the earth/ ^ 

To conclude, the civil rulers and magistrates are ordained 
of God, not as a terror to good works, such as are brought 
forth in mankind by the power, influence, and teachings of 
the grace and Holy Spirit of Christ; but to the evil works, 
words, and fruits of the spirit of antichrist, and of this world; 
for the civil magistrate is the minister of God for good unto 
all; but the evil-doer ought to be afraid and commonly is, of 
the ruler and minister of justice; who beareth not, nor ought 
to bear, the sword thereof in vain : for, as the servant of God, 
he is a revenger appointed of him to execute his wrath and 
vengeance upon him who doeth evil : Wherefore all must 
needs be subject, not only for wrath or fear, but also for con- 
science' sake. 

And as there always is, and must be in the nature of things, 
a great and necessary charge attending government, a kingdom 
or state being but as one great house or family (and no private 



THE lord's prayer. 2C5 

or particular family can subsist without charge) ; for that cause 
all are to pay tribute, as justly imposed by the legislature; 
because the magistrates are God's ministersj selected by his 
providence to attend continually upon that very thing : And 
as their attendance in their offices is, and, ought to be, con- 
tinual or diligently, they cannot attend the support of them- 
selves and families by other means and applications; and 
therefore all the subjects are to render to all, their dues, 
" Tribute to whom tribute is due, custom to whom custom, 
fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor/' 

Of, and in what things therefore have those servants of God 
cognisance and power? but over the same things which they 
ever had since their first institution, against all immoralities, 
and evil deeds and words among mankind; whereby they can, 
and do any hurt, or injure one another; as adultery, murder, 
manslaughter, theft, false witness, covetousness, and every 
public offence against the moral character, attributes, and law 
of God; and those magistrates and powers the apostle there 
writes of, were not Christian, but heathen, and yet the serv- 
ants of God in their stations and places; but had nothing 
to do to meddle in the Christian religion : and certainly, there 
is not a grain of priestcraft in all this, nor are such concerned 
herein : But as the Gospel is a divine spiritual power, not 
subject to the kingdoms of men, but Christ himself is king, 
lawgiver, and ruler in his kingdom, and hath sole power to 
select, qualify, and appoint his own ministers, to attend and 
do his own work on earth ; to teach mankind when and where 
they are sent, to fear and love God above all, and our neigh- 
bors as ourselves ; and to excite and recommend all to turn to 
the power and influence of divine grace and love; which 
worketh no ill to the neighbor, but fulfilleth the whole law. 

Now, this is the sum of the whole matter in a few words 
more : The civil magistrates and rulers among men, have been 
enslaved by the spirit of antichrist, and imposed upon by his 
priests and ministers, to execute all their tyranny, injustice, 
and cruelty, against the true Church and servants of Christ; 
who have ever exercised the testimony of a good conscience 
23 



266 T. story's conversations, etc. 

towards God and Christ, and the Christian faith and religion, 
until now; and though subject unto laws made only for civil 
rule, in the civil state, in every form and age, yet never unto 
any contrary to their own consciences, sentiments, and testi- 
monies in matters of faith and practice, in the things of God 
and the Christian religion. And until it may please the Most 
High, by his own Spirit and power, to subdue the pride, am- 
bition, lust of power, and dominion, and other lusts of the 
rulers and great ones of the earth, that error cannot be recti- 
fied ; nor can there be any lasting peace on earth, or the king- 
dom of Christ established therein, in its extensive glory. 

During the time of the depending of this point, some of the 
people were uneasy, and others interrupted; but the greatest 
number were silent and attentive : which being ended, the 
priest immediately moved another subject of debate; which, I 
suppose, was the main point which the people were most 
desirous to hear fully argued, and was thus : 

'^ Our Lord and blessed Saviour Jesus Christ commands his 
disciples ' to go teach all nations, baptizing them in the name 
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost ;' but 
ye, the people called Quakers, do not obey him therein; 
therefore ye are none of his disciples, ye are no Christians." 

I answered. What is that to thee and you what Christ com- 
manded his apostles in their ministerial character ; for ye are 
no apostles ? and if the neglect, or omission of the performance 
of that be a proof, that such are no disciples of Christ, and no 
Christians, then you yourselves are no disciples, and no 
Christians ; for you do not practise anything here instituted, 
or commanded, in any proper sense, but an invention of your 
own under pretence of it. 

Then I signified to the auditory, that as that person had 
proposed a discourse, and I had accordingly met him, yet it 
did not follow that he ought to assume to state any question 
in his own method, and draw thence his own arguments and 
conclusions, in favor of his own notions; nor ought any question 
at all to be stated, but what should relate to the known prin- 
ciples and practice of both parties. 



THE lord's prayer. 2G7 

Upon this Andrew Monro, the confuted priest aforemen- 
tioned, started up, pressing to be heard, pretending to expose 
some gross errors out of our ancient Friends' books ; and the 
Frenchman, my antagonist, was very ready to give him way : 
but I utterly refused it; and with my friend Joseph Glaister, 
suppressed it. Then stood up Major Jordan, and declared 
unto the auditory, that meddling with old books was contrary 
to the terms of that dispute, as offered by the French minister 
to a Friend, who had accepted his challenge on my behalf, in 
his hearing; and that it ought not to be insisted upon nor 
suffered : for it could not be reasonably expected that we, in 
itinerant circumstances, and upon such, a surprise, could be 
prepared for a proper defence. That quieted them a little : 
and then I offered a state of tbe question on the text men- 
tioned, which might include the principles and practice of 
both ; for we own baptism as well as they. 

This he and his party would have evaded, and clamorously 
opposed ; but several of the justices said it was so reasonable, 
it could not be denied; and yet the priest, and his raging 
party (for some few such there were), rudely pressed for such, 
a state of the question as might bring it wholly relative to our 
principle of the baptism of the Spirit, of which they were no 
proper judges, or only upon water baptism in its greatest lati- 
tude, which they do not practise ; and not to be confined to 
sprinkling, which is their only practice, or to words necessarily 
including it. 

Then I made a short harangue to the auditory, and observed 
to them the evasions of their ministers, and the reason of it ; 
that is, lest their own practice should be detected, and made 
appear to be extra-scriptural. And then urged him, over and 
over, to establish such a state of the question as might com- 
prehend both our principles and sentiments, and his practice 
upon the subject; and the greatest part of the people also, at 
last, requiring it as very just, and more particularly one of the 
magistrates, who said openly, " That if they could not defend 
their baptism now in use, it was high time to look for a better,'^ 



2G8 T. story's conversations, etc. 

at last he conceded, but with much reluctancy ; and then the 
question was stated thus : 

" What baptism is intended in these words, Go ye there- 
fore and teach all nations, baptizing them in (or into) the name 
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost ? 

"Is it water baptism only, or the baptism of the Holy Ghost? 
And is sprinkling of infants on the face only, in those names, 
with water, signing them on the forehead with a sign of a 
cross, where no sign remains ; with godfathers and godmothers, 
making them promise and vow, as in the Catechism of the 
National Church of England, commanded and warranted by 
that text T' 

James Burtell affirms and assumes, that water baptism only 
is commanded in that text; and that the present practice of 
the Church of England, as relative thereto, is included and 
supported by that command. Signed James Burtell. 

Thomas Story denies that water baptism is commanded in 
that text; but that the baptism of the Holy Ghost is there 
intended. Signed Tho. Story. 

My opponent having thus assumed, that water baptism only 
is commanded in the text, I put him upon the proof of it; 
which he essayed thus, viz., " There is some baptism com- 
manded here to the apostles ; and that baptism must be such 
as they were capable to perform : they were not capable to 
perform the baptism of the Holy Ghost, but with water they 
could baptize : Therefore water baptism only is there com- 
manded." 

I answered. You may observe here, that the force of your 
minister's argument lies in this. That the Apostles of Christ 
could not baptize with the Holy Ghost, but only with water; 
and therefore it must be water baptism. That the apostles 
could not baptize with the Holy Ghost at their own pleasure, 
when, and whom, and where they would, in their own wills 
(as your ministers can, and do administer what they call, and 
have taught you to believe and think, is Christ's baptism), I 



THE lord's prayer. 269 

grant; but that the apostles could not iustrumentally baptize 
with the Holy Ghost, I deny : For that institution is introduced 
after this manner, ''And Jesus came and spake unto them, say- 
ing, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye 
therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in (or into) the 
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, 
teachino; them to observe all thing's whatsoever I have com- 
manded you : and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end 
of the world. And he said unto them (at the same time), 
Go you unto all the world, and preach the Gospel to every 
creature : he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved ; 
but he that believeth not, shall be damned." And that this 
was not water baptism plainly appeareth by what the Lord 
further commanded his apostles at the same time. That they 
should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of 
the Father, which he had told them of before he suffered ; for 
" John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized 
with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." 

This baptism here commanded is not water baptism ; for 
the apostles were in the practice of water baptism in John's 
time, before the institution of this baptism ; and is here con- 
tradistinguished as belonging to John's dispensation, and which 
some practised (though we have so few instances of it, that it 
can hardly be called practice with propriety), after the begin- 
ning of the ministration of the baptism of the Holy Ghost; 
which none can administer without the immediate presence 
and power of the Holy Ghost (the Spirit of Christ), given to 
that end ; but some apostles both could and did administer 
water baptism, in the proper dispensation of it, without the 
power of the Holy Ghost (which was not then given as a dis- 
pensation), and which any bold and busy undertaker at this 
day both can and do administer, by the ordinary powers of 
nature, without the assistance of the Holy Ghost on that ac- 
count ; which they neither know nor believe in : But the 
baptism here commanded, neither the apostles themselves 
could, nor much less any else can administer, but by the 
immediate power of the Holy Ghost co-working in them, with 
23^ 



270 T. story's conversations, etc. 

them, and by them ; and therefore Christ promised that " they 
should receive power after that the Holy G^host was come upon 
them;'' and then, and not till then, they were his proper wit- 
nesses, but could not baptize with the Holy Ghost, until they 
themselves were baptized therewith : And as he who hath all 
power in heaven and in earth, promised to be with them, by 
that power, alway, incessantly, in that and all other works of 
the Gospel ministry, to the end of the world, so they went 
forth, and preached everywhere, '' the Lord working with 
them, and confirming the word with signs following :'' And 
this promise relates not only to them then present, but to all 
the true ministers of Christ, according to their various gifts, 
degrees, and services, from thenceforth throughout all ages ; 
yet, as a just check and prohibition to all the bold, forward, 
presumptuous spirits, among blind human kind, it is also writ- 
ten concerning the Holy Ghost, that " he shall not speak of 
himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak ; and 
he will show you things to come." 

And as Christ himself is the Truth, and, in the days of his 
flesh, was always subject unto the Father, and under his direc- 
tion, and imputed all his words and works unto him ; by this 
text it appears to be so still, and ever will be, in all the work 
of the redemption and salvation of mankind. Then what and 
who art thou, dark, carnal, sinful, polluted man, of all thy 
fallen kind, who darest assume upon thyself to intermeddle 
with the things of God, which thou dost not understand, nor 
so much as believe, that the Holy Ghost is now to be given, and 
waited 'for, as the immediate guide, leader, and director in the 
things of God, and work of the Gospel ? Thou art an unbe^ 
liever, and therefore in a state of condemnation ; thou art not 
saved thyself, and how then canst thou be a saviour upon 
Mount Zion ; instrumentally to save others, in the Spirit of 
him who is the great Saviour of all ? 

Andrew Monro, the other priest, being vexed at what had 
been said, he, and a pot-companion of his, one Luke Havil, a 
physician, brake in upon us rudely and abruptly, clamoring 
against our Friends' former writings, not to the present busi^ 



THE lord's prayer. 271 

ness, till one of the justices, between whom, on the French- 
man's part, and a Friend on mine, the terms of the controversy 
had been settled, gave them an open reprehension ; and certi- 
fied the auditory that nothing of our former books was to be 
meddled with in that dispute, nor any other books but the 
Holy Scriptures, which were to decide the controversy in point 
of proof: And then the justice gave the doctor a private hint 
(as himself told me), that if he did not surcease from that 
clamorous and mobbish behavior, tending to the breach of 
the peace, he should find himself obliged to exert the laws and 
his authority thereby upon him; and so silenced him. 

Then James Burtell questioned, whether there is such a text 
in Scripture as that " John truly baptized with water, but ye 
shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence;" 
but my companion Joseph Glaister, who was very ready that 
way, producing the place, the priest was then silent as to that. 

Then I insisted that since I had been interrupted before I had 
finished the point 1 was then upon, it was but reasonable and 
fair that I might, without further interruption, proceed to 
finish it; and so proceeded thus, viz. : 

Having proved that the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and not 
water baptism, is instituted, as in the text and context in ques- 
tion ; and the full capacity of the apostles and ministers of 
Christ to perform it in his spirit and power, I now proceed to 
prove, that they did baptize with the Holy Ghost accordingly: 
But before I proceed any further, that we may not beat the 
air through any misunderstanding, or different application of 
words to things, favor me with thy definition of the baptism 
of the Holy Ghost, and what thou understands by it, that I 
may know whether we, by the same terms, mean the same 
things. 

He answered rightly, "■ that the baptism of the Holy Ghost 
is the descending of the Holy Ghost into the hearts of those 
who believe and wait for his coming." Very well, said I, but 
is this all ? And, upon a short pause, he answered, " No, he 
worketh in mankind the work of regeneration ; and this is his 
complete baptism." 



272 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

I answered; Well, thea I now prove, tliat the apostles, in 
the wisdom and power of the Spirit of Christ, were instru- 
mental ministers of this baptism : First, when Peter preached 
to Cornelius and his household, ^' the Holy Ghost fell on all 
them which heard the word." And in his relation of the 
passage, in. his defence before the apostles and elders, before 
whom he was accused, as if he had committed an error, and 
broken the law or custom of the Jews, by preaching to the 
Gentiles, and eating with them (though their mission was 
expressly to all nations), he defines the falling of the Holy 
Ghost upon them to be the baptism of the Holy Ghost, men- 
tioned by Christ in the text in question, or context in these 
words, '^ And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them 
as on us at the beginning ; then remembered I the word of the 
Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water, but 
ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost/' 

Here the apostle applies this event to the terms of the text 
which saith, " Go teach (or disciple) all nations, baptizing 
them;" which shows that this baptism is sometimes adminis- 
tered in the time and act of teaching, in the power and wisdom 
of the Holy Ghost, whereof the tongue is chiefly instrumental ; 
as if teaching and baptizing were one and the same act, 
emblematically signified by the likeness of cloven tongues of 
fire sitting upon the apostles, at the time of the first descend- 
ing of the Holy Ghost upon them ; which is more expressly 
illustrated where it is said, that while Peter yet spake these 
words (viz., which he preached), the Holy Ghost fell on all 
them which heard the word : And according to the message 
of the angel to Cornelius, in directing him to Peter as his 
minister, " he should tell him words by which himself and all 
his household should be saved,'' and not by water baptism : 
For though Peter himself, who (with the rest of the apostles 
and elders) had but so lately understood the meaning of 
Christ in that institution, and the rest of the apostles and 
elders not at all hitherto (though about eight years after), said 
to those believing Jews who came with him from Joppa, and 
for their sakes (the Jews being always pertinacious of all types 



THE lord's niAYER. 273 

and shadows, in neglect of the substance), '' Can any man 
forbid water, that these (Gentiles) should not be baptized, 
which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we V (for 
which there could be no other reason but to obviate any offence 
those Jews might have taken at those believing Gentiles, if 
they had wanted any circumstance which they imagined 
necessary, and John's baptism, which the Jews had generally 
been baptized with, being at that time remaining in reputa- 
tion), yet it doth not appear by the text that they were so 
baptized, nor could there be any real need of it, seeing they 
had received the words of salvation and gift of the Holy Ghost; 
whereby alone the great work of regeneration and salvation is 
begun, carried on, and perfected. " For after that the kind- 
ness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not 
by works of righteousness which we have done, but according 
to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration and 
renewing of the Holy Ghost, which he shed on us abundantly 
through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that being justified by his 
grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of 
eternal life :" So that hence it follows clearly, that the baptism 
of the Spirit is well defined, and that the apostles were minis- 
ters of it, and Christ himself by them : for this baptism is the 
promise of the Father to the Son (not of water, as John), by 
the Holy Ghost ; and by the Son, doth he baptize his ministers 
by the same Spirit : and when they have been baptized by the 
Holy Ghost, and received power in him, then are and shall 
they be witnesses unto the Father and the Son, by the Holy 
Ghost, unto the uttermost parts of the earth; and then shall 
they ^^go and teach (or disciple) all nations, baptizing (or wash- 
ing) them in the name (or power) of the Father, and of the 
(eternal) Son, and of the Holy Ghost/' " In him was life, 
and the life was the light of men. That was the true light 
which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." And 
then also can they teach (or disciple) to observe all things 
which Christ himself hath commanded them, and to be with 
them alway, not only in that age, but likewise in all ages in 
succession, in the same work, and to the end of the world. 



274 T. story's conversations, etc. 

Again, for illustration, remember what is said by Christ, 
^^ I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest 
me out of the world : Thine they were, and thou gavest them 
me ; and they have kept thy word. As thou hast sent me into 
the world, even so have I also sent them into the world." 
And also, ^' He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath 
said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water ; but this 
spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should 
receive : for the Holy Ghost was not yet given, because that 
Jesus was not glorified. '^ Again, '' We are able ministers of 
the New Testament, not of the letter, but of the Spirit ; for 
the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life." And the apostles 
frequently laid their hands on the disciples, and they received 
the Holy Ghost. And Paul laid his hands on certain disciples, 
and the Holy Ghost fell on them. 

By all which it plainly appears, that though the Lord Jesus 
is the only baptizer of souls by his own authority, having 
all power in heaven and earth from the Father, and in whom 
all fulness of the Godhead dwells substantially, yet that the 
apostles and living ministers were, and are, instruments of the 
baptism of the Holy Ghost, no man who believes the Scrip- 
tures, and understands them, can doubt, nor support thy 
reason for the continuation of water baptism in the Church ; 
which I leave to the auditory to consider. 

Then said Andrew Monro, '^ Where you mentioned, ^ out of 
his belly shall flow rivers of water,' there is nothing of bap- 
tism mentioned, nor has it any relation to it." 

'Tis true, said I, the word baptism is not mentioned in that 
text, but I recite it as a collateral text, as a comparison be- 
tween water and the Spirit ; and that it proceeded from the 
faithful ministry in the act of ministering ; and here is the 
promise of the Spirit, upon faith only, without water baptism 
(as any means of it), to be first administered : But thou art 
not the person I have to deal with, thou hast had suflficient 
already, and mayest have more still. And then he desired 
leave of the other for an hour, which he consented to; but I 
perceived it was only to unhinge the matter in question, and 



THE lord's prayer. 275 

to confound the cause, so that the people might lose the mat- 
ter, and nothing be brought to bear, as he had attempted 
several times before. Then the Frenchman advanced a fresh 
argument for water baptism only, without the Spirit, in the 
text, thus : 

^' As this commandment was to the apostles of Christ, so 
they either understood it, or they did not understand it : To 
say they did not understand it, were to make the command- 
ment of none effect, by practising another thing, and omitting 
the thing intended : But that they understood water baptism 
to be commanded, is clear from their frequent practice of it, 
after the coming of the Holy Ghost, as I prove by several 
instances. 

" 1st. When Peter preached the Gospel to the Jews, and 
they inquired what they should do, he advised them to repent- 
ance, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remis- 
sion of their sins, and they ' should receive the gift of the 
Holy Ghost : for the promise was to them, and to their chil- 
dren, and to all that were afar off, even as many as the Lord 
our God should call ; then they that gladly received his word 
were baptized.^ 

" Again, 2dly. The eunuch was baptized by Philip (and 
here James Burtell read the passage), ' See, here is water, 
what doth hinder me to be baptized ? And Philip said, if 
thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest, &c., and he 
baptized him.' 

" So that you may see two clear instances of water baptism 
by the apostles after the coming of the Holy Ghost; and that 
practice shows fully what baptism was intended in the text in 
question. '^ 

I answered. In the first place, I observe one thing from 
these two texts, which I desire thee to remember anon, upon 
the second part of the assumption; that is, that those con- 
vinced by Peter, and also the eunuch, were first to believe and 
repent, before they were baptized ; which infants are not capa- 
ble of. 

2dly. That the baptism was not in the name of the Father, 



276 T. story's conversations, etc. 

Son, and Holy Ghost, but in the name of Jesus Christ only; 
and shows it was no other but a continuance of John's bap- 
tism, of which they were in practice before Christ suffered, 
and before the command in Matt, xxviii. 19. That it has no 
reference to infants, though the word children is there : for 
all Israel, young and old, are called, ^' the children of Israel," 
as one generation ; the aged, as well as infants, are the chil- 
dren of their ancestors : And the promise there mentioned, 
has no relation to water baptism, but to the gift of the Holy 
Ghost, promised of God by the prophet Isaiah to Israel, "I 
will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine 
offspring," &c. ; and I deny thy conclusion barely from the 
practice ; for the apostles practised circumcision, vows, shav- 
ing, &c., and were in the practice (as said) of water baptism, 
before this command was given. The apostle '^to the weak, 
became as weak ; to all men, all things, that by all means he 
might gain some :" But his practice in all he did is no war- 
rant to others to follow him ; for he baptized with water, and 
yet confesses fairly that he was not sent of Christ to do it : 
So that neither his practice, nor that of the other apostles, is 
cogent. 

But, to be more plain and full on this subject, let the audi- 
tory note, that John the Baptist was only sent to the Jews ; 
as the Lord himself also said, ^^ I am not sent but to the lost 
sheep of the house of Israel" (that is, as to that administra- 
tion in the flesh) ; for God had promised salvation, by Christ, 
both to Jews and Gentiles, but in two different administra- 
tions : To the Jews he saith, " A virgin shall bring forth a 
son," and this son was Christ in the flesh : but to the Gentiles 
he saith, '^ He shall be a light to lighten the Gentiles," &c. 
And as to John's administration, it was with water, saying, 
'^ they should believe in one to come j" but the apostles of 
Christ, believing in Jesus Christ, and that he was the true 
Messiah, baptized with water in his name, and that before the 
institution of this spiritual baptism ; for, whilst John was 
baptizing, "Jesus made more disciples than John, though he 
himself baptized not, but his disciples." 



THE lord's prayer. 277 

And as the Jews, who had, generally speaking, received 
John's baptism, believing in one then to come, had rejected 
him when come, and crucified him as an impostor, and in- 
curred that great guilt of his blood, so they were again to 
receive him and own him, by being baptized in his name, and 
so confess Grod's promise fulfilled in sending the son of the 
virgin, before they could receive the remission of their great 
sins, in rejecting him as they did; and accordingly they were 
baptized in his name, which the apostles did upon that foot 
they baptized upon in John's time, and not in the text ia 
question : For it is not very likely that Christ would institute 
a baptism after his resurrection, that they were in practice of 
before his death. And farther, there is not one instance in 
all the New Testament, where any apostle baptized, or com- 
manded any to be baptized with water, in the name of the 
Father, Son, and Holy Grhost; but where any water is used, 
it is only in the name of Jesus Christ, and, for the most part, 
to the Jews. 

For, as the Jews were to have remission of sins by faith in 
Christ, as born of the Virgin, and the Spirit, upon that faith, 
is a gradual manifestation ; so the Gentiles were to have 
remission of sins by faith in him, as he is "the true light, 
which lighteth every man who cometh into the world :" so 
that baptism was no means to them of receiving the Spirit, 
whatever it might be to the Jews, or Jewish proselytes. 

Again, you may note that the Apostle Paul, who was sent 
to the Gentiles in a particular manner, denies that baptism 
with water was any part of his commission • for he saith ex- 
pressly, " Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the 
Gospel. Now, since this great and first minister of the Gen- 
tiles had no commission to baptize with water, we may justly 
conclude it was not necessary to that work; and, if not to 
our forefathers, then not to us: And if he had no commis- 
sion, then none could succeed him in a commission; and then 
the pretence of all to baptize the Gentiles is vain. 

James Burtell replied. Here you say that there is no need 
of water baptism among the Gentiles : your two chief reasons 
24 



278 T. story's conversations, etc. 

are, first, that neither John nor Christ were sent (in that 
administration) but to the Jews ; and that the apostles were 
to succeed in water baptism to no others, instancing Paul's 
commission, I prove, from Acts x. 47, that Gentiles were to 
be baptized with water : ' Can any man forbid water, that 
these should not be baptized which have received the Holy 
Ghost as well as we V and Cornelius and his house were Greeks, 
i. e. Gentiles. 

" 2dly, as to St Paul, that place-imports no more, than that 
he was not only sent to baptize, and not that he had no power 
at all from Christ; for he did baptize Crispus, Gaius, and 
the household of Stephanus ; and we cannot think he did it 
of his own authority, without commission from Christ : and 
though he seems here to be positive, that he was not sent to 
baptize, yet such a manner of speech you may observe in 
Gen. xlv. 8, where Joseph said to his brethren, it was not 
they, but the Lord that sent him into Egypt : whereas it is 
plain they sold him ; but they only or chiefly did it not, for 
the Lord was also concerned in it : and so it is here, Christ 
sent not the apostle to baptize only, or chiefly, but also (and 
more eminently) to preach the Gospel.'^ 

I replied, the Apostle Peter, 'tis true, in that place asks a 
question, ^'who can forbid water/' and commands it : but the 
text is not express in the point, that ever they were baptized, 
but may imply as well that they were not, as that they were, 
for, immediately upon the command, 'tis said, " they desired 
him to tarry with them certain days ;" and that might be to 
consider whether it was necessary or not: besides, the apostle 
had been but, in a manner, instantly or newly convinced 
himself, concerning the salvation of the Gentiles by Christ, 
and might not then fully know all that was necessary, or 
unnecessary for them on that behalf, as it is very clear the rest 
of the apostles (though as much apostles by commission as 
Peter) did not then think the Gentiles were to be so much as 
saved, or that he ought to have preached to them, notwith- 
standing the express terms of the commission " go teach all 
nations, &c./' by calling him to an account about it as a breach 



THE lord's prayer. 279 

of the law : and in all his relations of the matter to them in 
his defence, he saith nothing of water baptism, but hints 
clearly, that till then, he had not fully understood Christ 
when he said, " Ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not 
many days hence :" so that this instance hath no force in it 
for water baptism to the Gentiles. And again, the apostles 
condescending to the weakness of the Jews in several cases, 
there might be something of it here, for there were divers 
believing with Peter who all along continuing an aversion to 
the Gentiles (even after their conversion), might have thought 
these converts to be short of them, being not baptized, and 
yet not able to see how little it was needful, or how little 
essential to Christianity, the great substance whereof they 
had already received, viz. the very Spirit of Christ, who is 
the great substance of all. 

As to the Apostle Paul's commission to baptize, and the 
Scripture cited as a parallel expression, to force it upon him, 
I take it to be of no weight at all : nor is there any parallel 
between these two texts : for, first, they are concerning things 
of a quite different nature ; and, secondly, each of them fully 
explains itself without the help of the other. In that of 
Joseph and his brethren, it is clear from the context, that the 
thing was of the Lord, and that they were not only instruments 
in the secret hand of God, in bringing his purpose to pass, but 
also really guilty of the evil : And in this other, respecting 
Paul's commission, it is also plain by the context (and must 
be wrested by this seeming parallel), that the apostle had no 
command from Christ to baptize ; for he, in the first place, 
recounts the particulars baptized by him. 2dly. He thanks 
God that he proceeded no further in that practice; which, if 
it had been any part of his commission, or necessary for them, 
he would not have done ; nay, rather than he would hazard 
such a surmise, that he had baptized in his own name, he 
rather left it oS": Whereas, if it had been necessary, or any 
part of his commission, he would not so much have minded 
what any would say, as to neglect his duty in any matter of 
salvation ; for he passed through good report and bad report in 



280 T. story's conversations, eto. 

other cases. But, 3dly, the very text itself is so full, that 
nothing can be more so; for it shows both negatively and 
positively what he was not sent to do, and what he was sent 
to do; "Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the 
Gospel :" And this being so clear, can never be wrested to 
another meaning to men of sense ; though weak people may be 
blinded by false glosses, having rarely the purity of the Scrip- 
tures, but false interpretations imposed upon them, as the rule 
of their faith, practice, and manners. 

And as to his doing anything without express authority, we 
have divers instances of it from himself, sometimes by revela- 
tion, sometimes by dreams, by vision, by commandment, and 
sometimes by permission ; and that was the case here : As also 
in condescension to the weak; sometimes it was. Thus saith 
the Lord; and sometimes. Thus say I, and not the Lord; so 
that what one man may do prudentally (in his own opinion), is 
no precept or cogent example to any other, and sometimes not 
a warrantable example : For though Paul baptized by example 
of others, and was not condemned for it, being well intended; 
yet those that attempted to cast out devils in the name of 
Christ, and not invested with his power, were overcome of 
those evil spirits. 

I added further, my adversary being almost on ground, that 
though the apostles did baptize some, especially of the Jews, 
and it may be some others, in the beginning of the Gospel 
dispensation, yet it does not follow that there was any necessity 
for its continuance. For as Christ said, " I have yet many 
things to say, but ye are not able to bear them :" so also the 
apostle, " I could not write unto you as unto spiritual, but as 
unto carnal : I have fed you with milk, and not with meat ; 
for hitherto you were not able to bear it, nor are you yet able.'' 
And so soon as the Church was able to bear this doctrine of 
baptism in its spirituality, the two great apostles, Peter and 
Paul, both explained it unto them. And as for a time, and 
under divers administrations, there had been divers baptisms, 
yet at last all centered in one baptism; for John was to 
decrease, and Christ to increase : That which decreases comes 



THE lord's prayer. 281 

to an end, but that wliich increases never ends : John has 
decreased near 1700 years, and is come to an end, and Christ 
hath increased as long to some, though the beginning of his 
kingdom is not yet known unto many. Paul^ or the inspired 
author of the Epistle to the Hebrews, speaks of baptisms ; but 
to the Ephesians he saith, ''There is one Lord, one faith, and 
one baptism ;" and what that one baptism is he also informs 
us in his Epistle to the Corinthians, " We are all baptized by 
one Spirit into one body, the Church ; which is his body, the 
fulness of him that fiUeth all in all.^' Again, Peter saith, 'Tis 
not the putting away the filth of the flesh, but the answer of 
a good conscience towards God, by the resurrection (i. e., 
revelation) of Jesus Christ. Here it is both negatively and 
positively defined what it is not, and what it is; it is not '' the 
putting away the filth of the flesh,'' then not water, which 
extends no farther, "but the answer of a good conscience;" 
which never can be but by the work of the Holy Ghost, de- 
scending into us (as my adversary hath defined the Spirit's 
baptism), and sanctifying our hearts, working the work of 
regeneration, and a holy conformity to the will of God, even 
through that " power that raised up Jesus from the dead, by 
the glory of the Father, so also should we walk in newness of 
life :" And this is the inseparable effects of the one only 
spiritual and permanent baptism of the Holy Ghost; in which 
Christ is with his ministers, unto all that are qualified to 
receive it, to the end of the world. I had room enough by 
this time, and that made me more large ; but my antagonist to 
this made me this unexpected return : • 

" It is true there is one baptism, but that baptism hath two 
parts, the one is water, the other Spirit : for as the body and 
soul make one man, so water and Spirit make one baptism." 

To this I demanded his proof out of Scripture, wherever 
the Spirit and water made up one baptism, or concurred in the 
act of baptizing, as the Holy Ghost, and preaching the Gospel 
in the power and wisdom of the Spirit, had done. 

He answered, " that wheresoever John's baptism was duly 
administered, the Holy Ghost was given at the same time;" 
24* 



•282 T. story's oo.nversations, etc. 

which being so palpable an error, I greatly admired at this 
answer, and returned, — 

I will prove the direct contrary by plain Scripture (though 
it is thy part to make good thy assertion, if thou canst), viz. : 
Acts xix., where the apostle asked certain disciples " whether 
they had received the Holy Grhost since they believed ? and 
they saidj We have not so much as heard whether there be any 
Holy Ghost :" And the apostle replied, " Unto what then were 
you baptized ? They said, Only unto John's baptism :" So that 
they had duly received John's baptism (i. e., water baptism), 
and were so far from receiving the Holy Ghost at the same 
time, that they had not so much as heard whether there was 
such a thinoj in beino;. 

Again : Simon Magus had water baptism duly administered, 
and yet had neither part nor lot in the Holy Ghost. 

And also (though it is not necessary to prove a contrary 
where no proof is offered for a position), I prove, by several 
instances, where water was without the Spirit, and the Spirit 
without water; the former in the case of the three thousand, and 
in the Samaritans, and the latter in the case of Cornelius. 

My adversary, being thus at length on ground, and utterly 
gravelled, only repeated his assertion, " that as the body and 
soul made up one man, so the water and Spirit one baptism. '^ 
Thus, like a door on the hinges, he shifted to and again, with- 
out proceeding forward one jot. 

Upon which I said, Friend, thou art in utter confusion and 
self-contradiction ; and noted to the auditory, that his last po- 
sition was against the state of the question, and his first 
assumption : for the question is, whether it is water baptism 
only, or the Spirit's baptism ; and the first he has assumed. 

Then he twice denied that the question was so, or that he 
had so assumed (not knowing what he had said), till I pro- 
duced it upon the table, having kept it in my hand all the 
time ', and further noted, that the question was alternatively 
stated, whether water only or Spirit; and or being a disjunc- 
tive, it could not be both, but one or the other intended : and 



THE lord's prayer. 283 

therefore liis last assertion was only a fruitless shift, and did 
not help him. 

All the reply he made to this was, that if I would not 
receive what he said upon it, he would proceed no further. 

Then I noted to the people how short he was fallen as to 
water baptism at large ; and then put him upon his proof of 
the second part of his assumption, viz., ^' That the present 
practice of the Church of England (sprinkling of infants, 
sign of the cross, godfathers, vows and promises in their name), 
was supported by the text." 

To this he offered little answer, but began to make away 
from the table, through the crowd, only mentioning that text, 
^' Suffer little children to come to me," &c. 

To this I replied, that as in the text. Matt, xxviii., the sub- 
jects of baptism are such as are capable of being taught, and 
of observing whatever Christ had before commanded them, 
which children are not : so in this latter text, 'tis plain there 
is no reference at all to baptism of any kind ; for the people, 
having faith in Christ, brought their children, that he 
might lay his hands on them ; which he accordingly did, and 
blessed them ; testifying to their innocence and purity, saying, 
" Of such is the kingdom of heaven :" and if so, then they 
need not anything to qualify them to enter, nor to take away 
original sin, as ye suppose : For though under the law, the 
Lord said, " I will visit the sins of the fathers upon the child- 
ren," upon which arose a proverb in Israel, that " The fathers 
have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on 
edge :" that is, the fathers have sinned, and the children are 
punished for it : Yet under the Gospel, God gives more grace, 
and saith, '' As I live, saith the Lord, this proverb shall 
cease j he that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on 
edge; the soul that sins shall die." Now, the apostle saith, 
that " where there is no law, there is no transgression :" sin 
was in the world before the law, but sin is not imputed where 
there is no law. Little children, though they have a seed of 
sin in them, as descending from Adam, the common father of 
all, yet that is not imputed; because Christ is ''a propitiatioQ 



284 T. story's conversations, etc. 

for the sins of the whole world." And as many suffer under 
the effects of Adam's fall, who never heard of it, so many 
receive benefit by Christ that never heard of him : " As in 
Adam all died, so in Christ all are made alive." And children 
being incapable of any law, are also of trangression, and 
consequently of sin ; so that there is nothing to condemn them ; 
" for of such is the kingdom of heaven." 

This passed off without any reply ; and then the French- 
man slunk out of the company; but, forgetting his gloves, 
came back to see for them, and then I asked him if he was 
going, and he said, Yea ; so we parted friendly, wishing one 
another's welfare ; all the company being very grave and silent. 



CHRIST THE TRUE LIGHT. 285 

CHAPTER XXXV. 
A JESUIT. PORT LOYAL, WEST INDIES. 

1709. 

CHRIST THE TRUE LIGHT. 

On tlie 22d, in the afternoon, Le Pere Dantriclie, Jesueta 
Missionarius de Servans Ecclesiam Parochitaem, Porto Paris 
(so thej gave his name and style, being of the family of the 
Duke of Lorrain), came to the inn where I was. This Jesuit 
and I had some discourse in Latin ; in which, though I had 
been long out of use of it, and his dialect and mine much 
differing, we made a shift to understand one another pretty 
well, and he, being a master of the language, was a help to 
both. 

I having a Latin Bible (Old and New Testament), by Beza, 
and an English Concordance (for I had my books and papers 
given me by the privateer's men), I quoted several passages 
to him out of both ; showing Christ to be the true light that 
was promised as such, as the object of faith, in the first place, 
to the Gentiles, and then as a sacrifice for their sins : That 
though it was the same Christ offered to the Jews, yet under 
another administration, viz., as born of the Virgin Mary, ac- 
cording to God's promise to them ; and that '^ this is the true 
light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world :'' 
all which he could not deny. After this he began with their 
common notions about Peter, quoting Matt. xvi. 18, where 
Christ says, " Thou art Peter, and upon this rock will I build 
my Church," &c., that Peter being the head of the Church, 
the Popes of Rome had succeeded him until this day, and 
were in his place, Christ's vicars here on earth, and ought to 
be regarded accordingly in all things." 



28G T. story's conversations, etc. 

To this I replied, 'Tis true that our blessed Lord taking 
occasioQ to ask his disciples, ^^ Whom do men say that I, the 
Son of Man, am ?" some said one thing and some another, but 
Peter said, '^ Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God ;" 
upon which Christ replied, " Simon, son of Jonas, flesh and 
blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but the Spirit of my 
Father : Thou art Peter (i. e. a rock), and upon this rock I 
will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail 
against it.'' In all which I do not understand that Christ 
promised to build his Church on Peter; but on the Spirit, 
power, and wisdom of the Father, which opened and revealed 
that great and necessary truth to Peter. For though his name 
signifies a stone or rock outwardly, yet such a rock is too weak 
to bear so great a weight as the Church of Christ ; but the 
power of the Father being almighty, his Spirit all-quickening, 
and wisdom all-sufficient, " the gates of hell," that is, the wis- 
dom, council, and power of hell (for here he alludes to the 
kings, elders, and people of the Jews, who often held their 
politic and warlike councils in the gates of their cities), " shall 
not prevail;" but the council, wisdom, and power of God. 
And Christ himself, being the wisdom, power, and word of 
God, the elect and precious stone, the head of the corner, and 
binding stone of all the building, the Apostle Paul does ac- 
cordingly ascribe to him the headship, only, and calls him 
expressly the foundation, viz., " He is given to be head over 
all things to the Church:" and "another foundation can no 
man lay than that which is already laid, which is Jesus Christ." 
But, continued I, if it had been true that Peter had been that 
rock, head, and foundation of the Churchy as we see he is not, 
how did they prove that the Popes of Rome had succeeded him 
in that station ? And who was Peter's successor when there 
were two Popes in Rome at one time, both pretending to be 
Peter's successors ? This question I found was not grateful ; 
and consisting of two parts, he answered only to the latter, 
and that by another question, viz., " When King James and 
King William became competitors about the Crown of Eng- 
land, how did the people know which was in the right ?" To 



CFIPvIST THE TRUE LIGHT. 287 

this I replied, Nullum simile currit quatuor : That though I 
understood his intent and drift by this question, yet there was 
no parallel ; for this was wholly an human affair, and men usu- 
ally, in such eases, follow the dictates of human understanding, 
consulting chiefly their own safety and natural interest : but, 
in matters of religion and divine things, it is quite otherwise ] 
for good and truly religious men, following the example of 
Christ and his saints, sacrifice all to the cause of religion, 
though contrary to sense and human reasoning ; therein fol- 
lowing the revelation, dictates, and openings of the Holy 
Spirit ; which is never a wanting to the true and faithful in 
all such great cases, as the head and foundation of the Church 
of Christ, and his successors ; wbicb are only they who follow 
Christ in a holy, innocent life. All this the good old man 
(for so I thought he was) heard with great patience, and with- 
out any show of anger ; but made no reply to the matter, only 
saying, it was near mass time and he must attend, and that we 
might have some further discourse another time : but I saw 
him no more ] though we tarried long enough there for it, if 
he had desired it. And, for my part, as I had come off pretty 
safe, after all this plainness (for I had no fear of him), I had 
nothing in my mind to seek after him ; though I had several 
discourses with many others, who had also a little Latin ; and 
all ended peaceably, these things being generally new to them. 



288 T. story's conversations, etc. 

CHAPTER XXXVI. 
A STRANGER. TWISK, HOLLAND. 

1715. 

WATEK BAPTISM. 

A STRANGER began slyly and smoothly to move some con- 
ference about matters of religion, and more especially drew on 
toward the subject of baptism; but being aware of them, as 
seeing their design, we were upon our guard, and the contro- 
versy falling to my share it held not long, for as his chief alle- 
gation was, that Christ instituted another water baptism dis- 
tinct from John's baptism, urging Matt, xxviii. 19 for proof, 1 
repeating that, and the other text uttered by Christ at the same 
time, explaining that in Matthew, which is but a small part 
of what the Lord then said, in all which there is no water 
baptism mentioned but only John's, and that by way of dis- 
tinction to the baptism of the Holy Ghost, the true baptism 
of Christ there set forth. This put him to the common reply, 
viz., to a conjecture that it was water baptism, from common 
circumstances : which being balanced by other circumstances 
to the contrary and overruled by the apostle's doctrine, where 
he saith, ^' There is one body and one Spirit; one Lord, one 
faith, one baptism ; for by one Spirit we are all baptized into 
one body, whether Jews or Greeks, bond or free, for we have 
all been made to drink into one Spirit,^' This is the Spirit of 
Truth, even of Jesus Christ, who is that one Spirit of Truth 
and eternal life ; into whom whosoever drinketh and continu- 
eth to drink, is a true and living member of that one holy and 
living body in which that Holy Spirit dwelleth as a living and 
holy temple, and of whom he is the life, and only ruler and 
head ; "• even the Church, which is his body, the fulness of 



WATER BAPTISM. 289 

him who filleth all in all : The Church of the first-born writ- 
ten in heaven ; the true spouse ; bone of his bone, and flesh 
of his flesh," of one Spirit, life, and nature with him. He 
was then at a pause, and so grew a little hot : which I re- 
proved him for, and cautioned him against it; telling him, if 
he let that fire arise in him, it would darken his understand- 
ing, being from the root of evil. 

Then his pretended friend showed himself, and alleged some 
insignificant things in the same, or more heat than the other ; 
so that we concluded he had brought the other on purpose, for 
he had come from Amsterdam the evening before. Th^n they 
owned that water baptism was not saving of itself; but only 
being a command, should be complied with because commanded. 
But this being only a begging of the question, I again 
insisted on proof. Then he alleged Peter's question, " Who 
can forbid water," &c. I asked him who Peter spoke to in 
that question ? And it appeared that he spoke to a few be- 
lieving Jews then with him : and as a question is no com- 
mand, so there were prudential reasons for what Peter thought 
best at that time, as things were then circumstanced. For 
these Jews, being always tenacious and bigoted to ceremonies 
and shadows, even after they had believed, if Cornelius and 
his house had not been baptized (or at least an ©O'er made of 
it, for it does not appear they were baptized), these Jews, and 
others who might hear of it, might think these Gentiles still 
wanted something they should have had to make them com- 
plete, and so deny them communion ; which, when all was 
done, they were too apt to do, being always self-conceited of 
themselves, and a tincture of the old bitterness, and contempt 
of the Gentiles, still remaining after they had believed in the 
same Saviour. And to this I added that the x\postle Peter, 
in all his defence before the apostles and elders, did not so 
much as mention this passage about water baptism; but on 
the contrary, places the command and baptism of Christ in 
Matt, xxviii. altogether upon the Holy Ghost. And I alleged 
also, in the proper part of this conference, that it is not ^' the 
putting away the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good 
25 



290 T. story's conversations, etc. 

conscience toward God;" and therefore not that baptism 
which extends only to the outside, and an outward cleansing 
of the body as water can only do; but that inward baptism 
and cleansing of the mind and conscience by the Holy Ghost, 
and JBre of the word of God, and Spirit of Christ ; for " not 
by works of righteousness which we have done, but according 
to his mercy he saved us." But how? By the washing of 
regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost. And 
this baptism is known by its effects; for by this baptism, ''we 
are buried with Christ into his death; who in that he died, 
he died unto sin once, but in that he liveth, he liveth unto 
God;" so that they that are thus baptized and thus buried, 
*^ are dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God, through Jesus 
Christ our Lord," the second Adam, the Lord from heaven, 
the quickening Spirit. '' That like as he himself was raised 
from the dead, by the power and glory of the Father" (which 
was a full and perfect resurrection), even so also all those that 
then were, now are, and hereafter shall be so baptized, are and 
shall be so raised, as they keep with that holy word of life, 
and divine power and nature, which effects this great and truly 
wonderful change ; which common observation and experience 
teacheth, in all ages, water baptism could never do, or can do, 
by whomsoever administered, though even by Peter, Paul, 
Philip, or any other, or all of the apostles. And I further 
urged, that since Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, and not 
one whit behind the chief of the apostles; and since that 
command in Matt, xxviii. was given long before his conver- 
sion and call to the ministry and apostleship, if that had been 
a command for water baptism to any and all who should have 
a part in the ministry and apostleship, then it would have 
been a command to the Apostle Paul ; But he did not think 
he had any power from that text, or any other way, to baptize 
with water; for, long after this, he saith, " Christ sent me not 
to baptize, but to preach the Gospel ;" which was to open the 
blind eye, unstop the deaf ear, and " to turn them from dark- 
ness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God :" that 
is, from the spirit and power of the prince of this world, and 



WATER BAPTISM. 291 

of all the ungodly ', who is the prince of darkness, and blinds 
the eye of the ungodly; and unto the Prince of Peace, the 
true light, "■ who lighteth every man that cometh into the 
world/' This almost silenced them, and then they fretted ; 
and the stranger replied, '^ that since it had once been in use, 
what hurt could it do to any, though such had already received 
the Holy Ghost; having been once administered to such/' 

I returned, that so had circumcision, yet not fit at this day. 
But this is not all : Water baptism is imposed as a command 
of Christ from that text, where there is no command for it, 
and is will worship ; made a part, and a great part too, of the 
Christian religion ; and not by Christ's authority, but by the 
errors of men : not being of the true nature of the kingdom 
of Christ, which is spiritual, but a shadow; in which antichrist 
hath wrought in a mystery ; all shadows being of the nature 
of darkness, and continued beyond their due bounds, become 
hurtful : and this having been as a garment, or cover, to the 
ungodly for many ages, God hating the garment spotted -by 
the flesh, cannot approve of men in their unwarrantable imita- 
tion of any shadow, at any time in use in the Church ; but has 
raised witnesses against them, and for the ever living sub- 
stance ; without which, all that man can do or imitate, is but 
as Cain's sacrifice, of no acceptance. 



292 T. story's conversations, etc, 

CHAPTER XXXVII. 
COUNTESS OF KILDARE. 

1716. 



BEAUTY OF PLAIIs^ DRESS. 

It being the time of the assizes, many of the higher rank 
were in town on that occasion, and clivers of our Friends being 
acquainted with several of them, one day came to my friend 
John Pike's to dinner the young Countess of Kildare and her 
maiden sister, and three more of lesser quality of the gentry : 
Upon this occasion we had some free and open conversation 
together, in which this lady, and the rest, commended the 
plain dress of our women, as the most decent and comely, 
wishing it were in fashion among them. Upon this I told her 
that she and the rest of her quality, standing in places of 
eminence, were the fittest to begin it, especially since they 
saw a beauty in it ; and they would be sooner followed than 
those of lower degree. To this she replied, " If we should 
dress ourselves plain, people would gaze at us, call us Quakers, 
and make us the subject of their discourse and town-talk; and 
we cannot bear to be made so particular/' 

I answered. The cause is so good, being that of truth and 
virtue, if you will espouse it heartily upon its just foundation, 
a few of you would dash out of countenance, with a steady and 
fixed gravity, abundance of the other side, who have no bottom 
but the vain customs of the times ; and you will find a satis- 
faction in it, an overbalance to all you can lose, since the 
works of virtue and modesty carry in them an immediate and 
perpetual reward to the worker. This seemed not unpleasant, 
being said in an open freedom. But then, alas ! all was 
quenched at last by this; they all of them alleged, '^ that our 



BEAUTY OF PLAIN DRESS. 293 

own young women of any note, about London and Bristol, went 
as fine as they, with the finest of silks and laced shoes ; and 
when they went to the Bath, made as great a show as any/' 
Not knowing but some particulars might give too much occasion 
for this allegation, it was a little quenching ; but, with some 
presence of mind, I replied, I have been lately at London and 
Bristol, and also at the Bath, and have not observed any such ; 
but at all these three places, generally indifierent plain, and many 
of them, even of the younger sort, very well on that account : 
But such among us who take such liberties, go beside their 
profession, and are no examples of virtue, but a dishonor and 
reproach to our profession, and a daily and perpetual exercise 
to us ; and I hope you will not look at the worst, since, amongst 
us everywhere, you may find better and more general examples 
of virtue and plainness. This they did not deny, and so that 
part ended. 



25 



294 T. STORY S CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

CHAPTER XXXVIII. 
CUEATE OF THIRLES. 

1716. 



WHO ARE SCHISMATICS. 

The curate of the town, one Thomas Sharp, though he did 
not give us any interruption in the meeting, yet^ in the mean- 
time, put up a paper on the market cross, a copy whereof fol- 
loweth, viz. : 

February 25, 1716-17. 
All religious assemblies which dissent from the established 
Church in this kingdom, &c., are schismatical, and contrary to 
law ; therefore, to go to a dissenting congregation for any other 
end than to oppose and suppress such a meeting, is sinful : To go 
with a design to join in the worship of it is so; because this is 
to have fellowship with that which is sin, and partake in the 
iniquity of it. Or, for diversion, because it is not lawful to 
make a mock at sin ; and they are fools, i. e., profane and 
wicked, who do so. Or, for curiosity, because this is in order 
to know and be acquainted with sin. Or, for want of better 
employment, and out of amusement only; because no one 
ought to be so idle, or so ill employed, as to pay attendance to 
anything which is sinful. This is to show a respect and 
countenance to it. 

Tho. Sharp, Curate of Thirles. 

After we went to the inn, I had begun to write an answer 
to this paper ; but in the mean time, came the priest himself, 
and one Oliver Grace, a gentleman in the country, and a 
lieutenant of horse, to our inn, and, seating themselves in the 
room, desired to see me. I went accordingly to them, and 



WHO ARE SCHISMATICS. 295 

two or three friends with me; and, after some civilities, we 
began upon the said paper. I observed to them^ that all these 
supposed sinful consequences depended upon the proof of the 
first position, viz., " That all religious assemblies, which dissent 
from the Established Church in Ireland, &c., are schismatical 
and contrary to law;" which I denied, and put him upon his 
proof: But first, fully to establish the terms of his proposition, 
I desired him to explain the meaning of this &c. 

For as there were once in England a sort of men who swore 
with an &c., including pro or con, to be explained as they 
might think most conducing to their interest or advantage 
afterwards ; so in this &c. might be included many sorts of 
national churches in other countries, and some quite contrary 
to that now in Ireland. He answered, ''I mean the Church 
of England only.'^ Then I asked him. How is that Church 
established more than any other in Ireland ? He said, " The 
clergy of Ireland being, in time past, met in convocation, 
agreed upon certain articles of religion, thirty-nine in number, 
which were afterwards confirmed by the king and the great 
seal of England.'^ I asked him, How does it appear that this 
is such a Church, as that all are schismatics and sinners that 
diifer from her ? For the true Church is hid with God in 
Christ, the ground and pillar of Truth, the New Jerusalem, 
the Church of the first born, and mother of saints ; and built 
on Christ Jesus, the true foundation. Rock of Ages, and chief 
corner stone. But a Church established by human authority, 
is the creature of that authority : which the Church of Christ 
never wanted, or will want, to establish her; being settled 
already by his own power, to his sole glory. And if schism 
and sin be marks of an irreligious assembly, pray then, why 
are they in England and Ireland so divided among themselves, 
as that one part is in rebellion against the government that 
established them, and the whole miserable sinners, as by law 
established ? Can it be any schism or sin to dissent from or 
meet together, otherwise than among miserable sinners ? Some 
of his company being rude, and more subtle than himself, 
would have brought him off, by giving ill language, and so 



296 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

making confusion ; for they saw where it was like to land : but 
he could not take the hint. For if it were schism to dissent 
from a national Church, why did they, in Queen Mary's time, 
&c., dissent ? And if that was a schism, why do you continue 
it ? Is that the reason you are miserable sinners ? 

Then he recurred to the sacraments, and said, " They that 
deny the sacraments and ordinances of Christ, are schismatics." 
I asked him, What does thou mean by these terms ? He said, 
*' Baptism and the Lord's supper." I asked him. What 
baptism ? He said, ^' Water baptism." I replied, If all are 
schismatics that decline water baptism, you yourselves are so, 
for sprinkling infants is no baptism : It is an error both from 
mode and subject. Then he recurred to the authority of the 
Church ; which being a plain handle for turning the schism 
where it should be, the above officer, one of his company, threw 
in a diversion, by accusing me of being the leader of those 
bullocks, as he called the Friends there. I told him, they 
and I have all one leader, and I am far from assuming any 
such character, which is very injurious and scornful in thee to 
oflfer. 

Then we proceeded upon the argument of baptism. He 
alleged the text " Go teach all nations, baptizing them," &c., 
and said it was water baptism. I said. Water is not men- 
tioned, but in another place, by way of distinction ; showing 
it was not water, but the Holy Ghost, thus, " For John truly 
baptized with water," said our Lord Christ, " but ye shall be 
baptized with the Holy Ghost, not many days hence." Ho 
said, " The apostles did baptize these with water, who had 
before received the Holy Ghost ; therefore it was water they 
understood by the text." I replied. That is no fair deduction, 
or consequence ; for some were also circumcised after they had 
received the Holy Ghost, which established the one as well as 
the other; but indeed neither: Besides, if the apostles had 
baptized with water from that text, they would have pursued 
the terms of it, viz., ^^ In the name of the Father, Son, and 
Holy Ghost:" but they never baptized any so, with water; 
therefore not from that text. Then he said, '^ I oai^ provo 



WHO ARE SCHISMATICS. 297 

they did," alleging that text, "Who can forbid water," &c. 
I answered, It does not appear by that text, that these were 
baptized in the name of the Father, &c., and, in other places, 
it was in the name of Christ the Son only; not upon this text 
in Matt, xxviii., but upon the same foot on which they bap- 
tized in John's time, before the giving out this text, where 
Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples : But that the 
apostle has put out of all question, where he says, There is one 
Lord, one faith, and one baptism, which one baptism must 
either be water baptism without the Spirit, or the Spirit alone 
without water, or the Spirit and water must make up that one 
baptism. It is not water alone; for Simon Magus was bap- 
tized with water, and yet had neither part nor lot in the Holy 
Spirit. Again, the Samaritans had been baptized with water 
in the name of the Lord, but had not received the Spirit ; and 
some were baptized who had not heard of it : Therefore, the 
Spirit and water not going together, they are not one baptism. 
But the apostle is clear in the point, where he saith. By one 
Spirit we are all baptized into one body ; for we have all been 
made to drink into one Spirit : And this makes members of 
the Church, which is his body, " the fulness of him who filleth 
all in all ;" which is not a body of miserable sinners, but of 
saints and saved of the Lord. They could not hear this but 
with divers interruptions; and he would have evaded it by 
some poor glosses upon some texts, viz.. It was to be under- 
stood by the authority of one Spirit, &c., which I rejected. 
Then this Oliver Grace (said to be a late convert from 
Popery) began to be further abusive, and said, " You have no 
more religion than my horse." I asked, What hast thou seen 
or heard by me to provoke thee to such an expression ; which 
thy horse, if he had like faculties as thyself, would hardly 
have used where no occasion was. given ? I told them, I am 
now disappointed in you ; I expected, when desired and invited 
into your room and company, at least a rational conference on 
the points proposed : but to be thus horsed and bullocked, was 
another thing, and so departed the room. 



298 T. story's CONVERSATIONS, ETC. 

CHAPTER XXXIX. 
COMPANY ON THE EOAD TO KILKENNY. 

1716. 



TRANSUBSTANTIATION. 

On our way we fell in upon the road with some persons 
going to town ; and one of them offering some discourse about 
religion, I perceived, after awhile, he was a Roman Catholic ; 
and after some other points, we came upon that of Tran substantia- 
tion. He urged the words of Christ, where he said, concern- 
ing the bread, ^' Take, eat ye all of it; this is my body which is 
broken for you :" and again, concerning the cup, ^'This cup is 
the New Testament in my blood, which is shed for you," &c. 
This, said he, is so plain and distinct, that there can be no 
mistake in it : ''This is my body; this cup is the New Testa- 
ment," &c. 

I answered, this is a jBgurative speech : This bread signifies 
my body, which shall shortly hereafter be broken for you : and 
this cup ; that is to say, the wine or liquor contained in it, 
signifies or symbolizes, the New Testament in my blood : For 
if it were a proper speech, without any figure, many absurdities 
would follow against both sense and reason : whereas, Christ and 
his apostles suit their doctrine and miracles to both. For in 
working of miracles, if the senses were not infallible (as they 
are concerning their proper objects, where the sense is not 
imposed upon by false mediums, or any depravation in itself; 
for all mankind will conclude a man to be a man at first 
sight, though they may express that thing or man by different 
names; as a man, viz. anthropos, homo, &c.), then it could not 
be certainly known whether such a thing (as raising the dead, 
making the lame to walk, opening the eyes of the blind, 



TRANSUBSTANTIATION. 299 

&c.), was done at all. And as to reason, Christ often uses it; 
^'No man can serve two masters/' &c. ; ^'No man goes to 
build but first counts the cost," &c. He that goes to war first 
considers whether he is able with 10,000 to encounter his 
enemy with 20,000, &c. And again, saith reason, 'Tis impos- 
sible that both the body of Christ and the bread can occupy 
one and the same place, at one and the same time; for when 
the body is present, the bread must be absent ; and when the 
bread is present, the body must be absent. 

And again to the senses: The Apostle John says, ''that we 
have heard with our ears, seen with our eyes, and our hands 
have handled of the good word of life," alluding to the infal- 
lible certainty of sense in preaching the Gospel ; " for the life 
was made manifest, and we have seen it :" so that as certain 
as is sense in sensible subjects and objects, so certain and yet 
more, were and are all the true ministers of Christ of those 
saving and divine truths they deliver from the Spirit, or 
essential truth and life manifested in them, in its own power 
and virtue; and so certain also may the hearer be of the truth 
of the ministry, by the manifestation and answer of the same 
Spirit working in him. 

I further urged that it was a figurative speech, for this 
reason : Because he saith, "This cup is the New Testament," 
were it of wood, stone, or metal: That cup, whatever it was, 
was the New Testament, according to thy an4 your notion. 
Where then is that cup ? If the cup be lost, then also is the 
Testament, if the cup be the Testament. 

This was a little pinching, and drove my antagonist to this 
reply, viz., " This speech of Christ hath two parts : the first is 
proper concerning his body ; but the second is figurative, con- 
cerning the cup." 

Then said I, Friend, pray give me thy reason for the dif- 
ference, 

" Because," said he, " it was impossible to drink the cup, 
but only that which was in it." 

It is a good reason, said I, friend, and holds as well the 
other way, for if that must be figurative respecting the cup, 



300 T. story's conversations, etc. 

because of the impossibility of drinking tbe cup itself, to 
common reason ; even so, for tbe same reason, deduced from 
tbe impossibility of tbe tbing, I justly conclude tbere is no 
transubstantiation. 

But if it bad been so, tben tbis, and many otber like 
absurdities would have followed, viz. : Wbilst Cbrist sat at tbe 
table, and said of tbe bread, 'Hbis is my body," tbe body wbicb 
brake it, and called it bis body, must cease to be tbat body, 
and tbe otber (tbe bread) must commence and begin to be bis 
body (wbicb it was not before), and be really so, before he 
could properly and truly call it so, or else tbere must be many, 
nay innumerable same bodies at tbe same time, and yet all but 
tbat one body ; which is absurd and unreasonable. 

Again, if wbilst Cbrist sat at the table with his disciples, 
they all ate the whole entire Cbrist tbe evening before be was 
crucified, pray, then, who was left uneaten to be crucified 
next day ? And if the first to whom he gave a piece of bread 
bad all tbe whole Christ, what remained for all the rest ? I 
think nothing at all. 

Then be said, '' Christ told the people, ' That except ye eat 
tbe flesh, and drink the blood of tbe Son of man, ye have no 
life in you :' There must then be some way of eating and 
drinking, to make good tbat saying ; wbicb is also very plain 
in its own nature, tbe flesh and blood in a proper sense." 

To tbis I answered, That Christ did say so, and the people 
took him to mean properly, and without a figure, as ye now do, 
looking upon the impossibility of tbe tbing, as it really is, in 
the sense they and you take it ; but when they were all ofi'ended 
and gone, be turned to his disciples, and explained it to them, 
for they seemed not rightly to understand him j ^' Will ye also 
leave me? "Tis given to you to understand the mysteries, but 
to them (tbe world) in parables. What then was tbe parable 
(or mystery) ? " 'Tis tbe Spirit that quickens, tbe flesh profiteth 
nothing." And thus it is in your own Bible as well as ours. 

I further added, tbat if therefore the bread were really tran- 
substantiated, after the words said, and were tbe true body 
and blood of Christ; and if they really ate and drank tbe 



TRANSUBSTANTIATION. 301 

same flesh and blood which then they beheld, it would profit 
them nothing. 

Then he said, " 'Tis true the flesh and blood by itself, with- 
out the Spirit, does not profit ; but when we eat the flesh and 
blood together, we eat the Spirit also, and that quickens as 
we eat it." 

This was a deep fetch, and the last shift ; which I answered 
thus, viz., This cannot be Christ's meaning; for he does not 
only distinguish, but divide between the flesh and the Spirit, 
'' 'Tis the Spirit that quickens ;" Here is the whole work of 
quickening ascribed to the Spirit ; and the same that quick- 
ens, also continues life in him who is quickened ; for from the 
Spirit came flesh, blood, bread, wine, and the whole universe, 
and all that in it is ; and are all continued by the same Spirit, 
the substance of all things; ^' But the flesh profiteth nothing:'' 
Here it is set apart from the Spirit in the same sentence, 
and profiteth nothing to be eaten. And, for further interpre- 
tation of this, observe, 1st, the words of Christ to Satan, 
" Man shall not live by bread alone ; but by every word that 
proceedeth out of the mouth of God :" The words which pro- 
ceed out of the mouth of God are Spirit and lif« ; as said the 
Lord Christ, who is that word, " my words they are spirit 
and they are life;" which words the apostles knew, by experi- 
ence, to make them alive and preserve them ; as appears, 

2dly. By the answer of Peter at the same time, " Whither 
shall we go, thou hast the words of eternal life ?" So that 
this quickening is not by this so gross and carnal eating and 
drinking here imagined ; but by receiving of the Spirit 
through the words of Christ, abstracted and apart from that 
holy body, and all other corporeity or body. And for the 
further understanding of sayings of this nature, observe, that 
when the disciples of Christ were showing him the temple at 
Jerusalem, and the beauty of it, he said to them, " Destroy 
this temple, and I will raise it up in three days." The temple 
at Jerusalem was the object of their eyes, and subject of their 
discourse, which gave them just occasion, as men, to suppose 
he meant that temple ; which they said, was forty years in 
26 



302 T. story's conversations, etc. 

building, and could he raise it in three days ? They admired 
at his saying : but yet, in the sequel of things, they under- 
stood afterwards, though not at the time, that he spoke of the 
temple of his body. Again, in like manner, where he saith, 
*^ I am the vine, ye are the branches," &c., this may well ex- 
plain that other saying, " I will drink no more of the fruit of 
the vine, till I drink it new with you in my Father's king- 
dom 3" which can mean no other, than as his coming in the 
flesh consecrated the way, and was previous to the coming of 
the Spirit; so his drinking new wine in the kingdom of Glod, 
must intend the community of Spirit intended in the words 
of the apostle afterwards, concerning the whole Church, ** We 
have all been made to drink into that one Spirit.'' 

My opponent by this time being weary of the subject, ad- 
vanced a question concerning the Spirit itself, viz., ^' How do 
you know that Spirit from another spirit, since Satan is trans- 
formed into an angel of light ? May it not be that evil one, 
and not the Spirit of Christ V 

I replied, that the divine essential truth is self-evidencing; 
that the quickened soul is assured of him by his own nature, 
and quickening power and virtue; as saith the apostle, "Here- 
by we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath 
given us :" And he that is in a state of doubting is in a state 
of condemnation, and reprobation, and hath not yet known 
the Spirit, but is in death and darkness, and ignorant of God 
and Christ; and in such Satan is transformed, and not in 
those that are quickened, or regenerated ; for such as wanted 
a proof of Christ's speaking in and by the apostles, were by 
Paul referred back to themselves ; " Know ye not your own- 
selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be repro- 
bates V And again, " The Spirit itself helpeth our infirmities 
with sighs and groanings which cannot be uttered ; and 
searcheth all things, even the deep things of God." By this 
time we drew near the town, and then he said, " No doubt but 
you have a good intent in what you do, in travelling so in the 
world ; but you must have some good considerations for it, as 
our priests have gold and silver," and mentioned about three 



TRANSUBSTANTIATION. 303 

hundred guineas for that time. I told him no; we whom 
God had raised up and quaUfied in some degree, in this age, 
to that service, were advanced above any such mean, base, and 
mercenary considerations, as to make anything from men for 
this labor, which we bestow freely in the love of God, and by 
his commandment, for the common good of men. '' Why," 
said he, " the apostles were but poor men, and wanted neces- 
saries, and must have received of the people, or wanted." 
True, said I, but then they say, " Having food and raiment, 
let us be therewith content:" and where that, is really the 
case, such as are poor among us we would not begrudge them 
that ; but it is very seldom, or never so among us.; but rather, 
with Paul, we can generally say, " These hands of mine have 
ministered to my necessities ;" having no desire that any such 
thing should be done unto us ; and we generally have suffi- 
cient of our own. 

Then said he, " But in case your friends, after some very 
good sermon, that pleaseth a great congregation well and gen- 
erally, should offer you a purse of two or three hundred guin- 
eas, would you not accept it, being freely given ?" 

I replied, No ; I hope it would be no temptation, if so it 
were ; which never can be as long as they and I abide in the 
truth we profess, either to give or receive that way : I should 
rather be greatly troubled to see so great a degeneracy, as to 
subject them to so great an evil. " Well," said he, " I cannot 
tell ; you say well, and I am apt to believe you ; but if you 
would not, there are many would be glad of the offer, and 
make no bones on't, but receive it with both hands." 

I believe it, said I, for there are too many mercenary hire- 
lings in the world in this age, who, though they pretend a 
mission ^' to go teach and baptize all nations," yet, as unfaith- 
ful servants (if they were sent at all), sit down where they 
can have the first maintenance, and never move till the voice 
of a better cry in their ears ; and then, and not till then, they 
run where God does not send them. 

''There is too much of it," said he; and so we parted in 
friendship, with good wishes on all sides. 



304 T. story's conversations, etc. 

CHAPTER XL. 
AN ELDERLY WIDOW. 

1717. 



■RESURRECTION. 

After this meeting a certain widow lady, who with divers 
others of superior rank, had been in the meetings, and well 
satisfied in the main, desired some conference with me, for 
further satisfaction, about the resurrection, and what we held 
in that great point; for I had gone through most points in 
that creed, commonly, though not justly ascribed to the 
apostles; but she only mentioned that of the resurrection, 
owning the thing in general. She was a grave elderly person, 
religious and apprehensive : and I being willing to inform her, 
I stated the matter thus, viz. : 

In order to open this mystery to thy satisfaction, let me first 
state and settle the terms. First. Of death, as it is applicable 
to the laying down, putting ofi^, or departing out of these mor- 
tal bodies. 2dly. As applicable to the mind, or soul dwelling 
therein. And 3dly. Of the resurrection of both, and how 
applicable. 

By the death of the body, I mean the cessation or departure 
of the soul out of it, by which it is left in a state of corruption 
and dissolution, as we see by common and daily experience. 
And though the soul is of a spiritual nature, and immortal, as 
to her duration, yet mortal, or corruptible, as to her true life 
and primitive state; being capable of losing it by her own 
act, and of departing from her first state of innocency and 
virtue, and yet living in an animal and sensual mode. And 
this last being of the highest consequence, and rightly under- 
stood and settled, makes way for the understanding of what 



RESURRECTION. 305 

may be needful in the other, I shall first proceed upon it. 
For the better understanding of what I call the death of the 
soul, I consider her first state of life, and what that was. 
Man, in his first state as to his soul, or mind, was innocent, 
righteous, and truly holy, in the image of God. For as God 
is the holy, righteous, just, and true God, so Adam was a 
holy, righteous, innocent, just, and true man ; and as God is 
a spirit, so was Adam spiritually minded : but as to his body, 
it was of the same mould and form of other men, his posterity 
and offspring. In this state the life of the divine word, and 
Son of God, was the light and law of the life of man, his 
guide and rule ; through which word God gave unto man a 
law of abstinence from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of 
good and evil, annexing this threat and sure prophecy, that 
" in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." So 
long as man continued in the faith and belief of this word, he 
remained in his first state ; but as he departed from his faith 
therein, and believed another voice (viz., of the evil one), 
then he died ; But how ? Not a bodily death ; for he con- 
tinued in the mode of his being, as to that, according to its 
first intention, living 900 and odd years, and begat sons and 
daughters ; but as to his soul, though that is not so mortal as 
to be subject to the dissolution of the mode of its being, as 
the body is, yet departing from the law and life of the divine 
word, so remains in a state of separation from that life; which, 
after its kind, is a death unto it, and exposes it to real and 
everlasting misery. And this may be further collected from 
some other Scriptures; as, 

1st. Where Christ, who is that word, said unto Martha, 
'' I am the resurrection and the life, he that believeth in me, 
though he were dead yet shall he live ; and he that liveth and 
believeth, shall never die." 

And 2dly. Where the apostle saith, " We who were some- 
times dead in trespasses and sins, us hath he quickened." 

In the first part of this saying of Christ, the word of life is 
explanatory of the word resurrection, that life being the cause 
and power of it, and must intend a resurrection from the same 
26* 



oO(3 T. story's conversations, etc. 

death here intended ; which could not be of the body, but of 
the soul or mind of man in a state of death in the body. For 
these words, '' He that believeth in me, though he were dead, 
yet shall he live,'^ intend a capacity and possibility of faith in 
the interim, and same time of this death j which a state of 
death, and dissolution of the body, will not allow : for man is 
then gone past a state of faith, or beginning to believe to sal- 
vation, and concluded for ever under the effects of his faith or 
unbelief whilst here below : and not only so, but the life here 
spoken of is intended, as an immediate consequence of that 
faith, as where he also saith, ^^ He that believeth in me, out of 
his belly shall flow rivers of living waters ; and this spoke he 
of the Spirit, which they that were to believe should receive," 
signifying the abundance of the life of the divine word to be 
made manifest in all true believers. And these words, " he 
that liveth and believeth shall never die," cannot be intended 
of a natural life, or any life, to continue a believer for ever 
here, or give him a translation into glory without a natural 
death : For the apostles and primitives were all then alive, and 
they all believed, and yet all died a natural death ; yea Laza- 
rus, though once raised from the dead, by the power of the 
resurrection, hath again paid the common debt appointed of 
God to all men. Have the words and dcrctrines of Christ 
therefore failed ? No, they are true for ever, but not in a 
natural sense : For, though the saints and just ones of God are 
departed this life, they are alive in God, through the work and 
mediation of him whom God hath sent to quicken the dead, 
having believed and obeyed, and obtained eternal life, in and 
through the same divine word, whom Adam disbelieving and 
disobeying, fell from, into death, and all the miseries attend- 
ing that unhappy condition. 

And this resurrection, as I have observed, is also expressed 
in these words of the apostle, as a thing already attained, " We 
who were sometimes dead in trespasses and sins, us hath he 
quickened. Awake to righteousness and sin not. As Jesus 
Christ was raised up by the glory (or power) of the Father, so 
also are we raised in newness of life. The life which I now 



RESURRECTION. o07 

live, is by faith in the Son of God/' The faith of the opera- 
tion of God, which works by love, wrought by him the word 
of faith, even the ingrafted word which createth anew unto 
good works, and is able to save the soul. 

Now as to the resurrection of the body, we have never 
found that so much our concern to inculcate it, being generally 
received already by the professors of Christ in every nation ; 
but opposing some carnal notions of ignorant men about it, and 
others being interested against us, as enemies to their filthy 
gain and ways, have falsely accused us as deniers of the resur- 
rection of the dead : whereas we believe the resurrection of the 
dead both of the just and unjust : But as to that forward and 
foolish question, " How are the dead raised, and with what 
bodies do they come V as secret things belong to God, so we 
do not presume to explain it, or answer other than the Holy 
Scriptures have said; but are satisfied in this, "that God 
giveth it a body as pleaseth him, and to every seed his own,'' 
and are rather in the first place concerned how to attain the 
resurrection of the just and right hand of the Father, through 
the life of him who is the resurrection and the life, than to 
gratify a lust of knowledge of divine mysteries, rather per- 
taining to another state, than fully understood, or to be at all 
known by the sons of Adam, as such only, here in this world. 

To this effect I laid things before her; and she answered, 
" that whilst we are low and carnally minded, we have ideas 
and apprehensions accordingly, and being used to these bodies, 
and unacquainted with abstracted ideas of scriptural beings, 
were tenacious of bodily appearances, till these apprehensions 
were removed by more divine knowledge : For if in the resur- 
rection we are to be as the angels of God, who are all min- 
istering spirits, we shall have a more excellent mode of being 
than we can easily conceive in this life, or can consist with 
any corporeity of any material form. And she asked me. 
Have you read Mr. Locke on that subject, who I think has 
done it well ?" I replied, I have seen some part of what he 
wrote against the Bishop of Worcester, but never read it all. 
What passed was to the mutual satisfaction of ourselves and 



308 T. story's conversations, etc. 

some others in company : But before she retired, I understood 
she had been sometimes conversant with the Bishops Burnet 
and Hoadley; and having a little book with me of the latter 
in vindication of the Kevolution, I presented her with it ; and 
after some more converse on some other subjects (for she had 
a general understanding), she took leave and departed, seem- 
ing to be well pleased, and saying she believed we had been 
much misrepresented in many things. 



FRUITa OF QUAKERISM. 309 



CIIxiPTER XLI. 
ExVRL OF CARLISLE. 

1718. 

FRUITS OF QUAKERISM. 

When the present Earl of Carlisle was a boy, lie was at that 
city (London) with his grandfather, then governor of the 
castle there, and I was, at the same time, at school in that 
city ; which occasioned my being admitted into the acquaint- 
ance and favor of this young nobleman : And as I had then 
a strong affection for him, it did not wear out all this tract of 
time, notwithstanding the several changes both in him and 
me, and our differing circumstances ; so that I had an inclina- 
tion to see him, and speak with him, which I had not done in 
many years : Accordingly, taking Dr. Gilbert Heathcote in my 
company, partly to introduce me, he being physician to some 
of the family, and known to the earl, I went one morning, 
about nine, to his lodgings in Greek Street; when the doctor 
and I were called up into his chamber, where we found him 
undressed, in his gown and slippers. 

The earl received us respectfully, though I was then become 
an utter stranger to him ; for he did not at all know me, nor 
did I presently make myself known* He ordered a couple of 
armed chairs to be placed for us, and bid us sit down by him; 
which when done, and some occasional expressions past be- 
tween him and the doctor, I being silent, and my mind 
inwardly exercised at the same time, and waiting an apt oppor- 
tunity for matters of some other consequence, the earl and I 
fell into discourse after this manner, 

" Mr. Story,^' said he, ^' are you anything related to the 
Story's in Cumberland?" Yes, said I, Thomas Story, of 



310 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

Justice Town, is my father. ^^ Did you know Mr. James 
Appleby, a Friend of yours, who lived on a farm of mine at 
Askerton ?" Yes, very well, ^' I have the bad news to tell 
you, that he is lately dead. He was a good, industrious man, 
and improved that estate much since he had the management 
of it; and, I think, your people are generally sober and 
industrious, and few of you poor." We ought to be so, said 
I, for our principles lead us both to sobriety and industry. 
" The great end of the Christian religion," said he, " being to 
mortify and subdue the passions, irregular desires, and appe- 
tites of men, I see no people in the world come up to that as 
you do ; but cannot apprehend by what means you arrive at 
these attainments : It cannot be anything preached among you 
that works such effects ; for I have been at some of your meet- 
ings, and heard some of you preach, but could not make any- 
thing at all of it ; and have also read some of your books, but 
could not make much more sense of them than of your preach- 
ing : so that I am still at a loss what to think of you in matters 
of religion. I knew a young man in the north of England, 
whom, perhaps, you might also know, a brother of Mr. 
Appleby's, as wild a young fellow as was in England; but, by 
some means or other, turning Quaker, was no sooner under 
that profession than he became a very sober, good man." 

No doubt, said I, but thou hast read the Scriptures, and 
mayest remember what Christ said to his disciples a little before 
he suffered ; " It is expedient for you that I go away ; for if I 
go not away, the Comforter will not come : But if I go away, 
I will pray the Father, and he shall send you another Com- 
forter, even the Spirit of Truth, which the Father will send 
in my name; he shall lead you into all Truth, and bring all 
things into your remembrance, whatever I have said unto you. 
Again, I will not leave you comfortless ; I will come again 
unto you." 

Here is the Spirit of Truth promised, which is no other 
than the Spirit of Christ ; and is the same which was promised 
of God by his prophet, where he saith, '' I will give him a 
light to the Gentiles, and a covenant to the people ;" and as 



FRUITS OF QUAKERISM. 311 

the Holy Scriptures elsewhere testify, " He is that true light 
which lighteth every man that coraeth into the world :" And 
of whom the apostle saith, " Believe in the light, that ye may 
be children of the light ; and if children, then heirs/' Now, 
though we, in and of ourselves, have been like other men, 
incident and subject to many failings and weaknesses, yet, it 
being given us to believe in the Lord Jesus, not only as he 
came in the flesh in that day, but also as he is the light of the 
world, we do not only find that his Spirit, as he said, reproved us 
for our sins, but is also become our Comforter and Supporter, 
as we have repented and left them off; and according to his 
promise, by degrees, leads into all the necessary truths of the 
Gospel, and out of evil into righteousness ; giving us also to 
experience the end of his manifestation, the destruction of the 
works of the Devil, the mortification of our lusts, appetites, 
and passions, and to be created anew to good works, through 
him our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ : And what difference 
there is between us an4 other men, and in our present from 
our former state, it is the Lord that hath done it, and not 
ourselves ; for we have nothing to boast of but the mercies of 
God in him. 

Then, said the earl, '^If the Spirit of Christ and his light 
be all one, and that light be in all men, why does it not work 
the same effect in all men ? Why have not I power over my 
inclinations as well as you over yours V 

Then said Dr. Heathcote, " I was once in my time wild 
enough ; I would have done fourteen exercises with any man 
in England ; but, when it pleased God, by the manifestation 
of his divine light, to convince me of the vanity of these 
things, and the error of my course of life, through faith in 
this light, and obedience to its discoveries, I am now reformed 
and got over those lusts and appetites of many kinds, which 
once were over me ; and as I keep to that light, and not other- 
wise, I am daily preserved : And the true reason of men's 
being overcome by evil is because they believe not in that 
divine manifestation, which manifests it to be evil, but go on 
to act the same things after they do see them to be wrong : 



312 T. story's conversations, etc. 

but as when men leave off evil when they see it, through the 
power and virtue of the discoverer, then they have further 
manifestations of that light that discovers it, and greater power 
over their corruptions, till all be discovered, and all subdued ; 
and then there is a liberty and enjoyment in the Truth, which 
far exceeds all the enjoyments of this world, and a satisfaction 
which nothing else can give : and therefore, if thou would be 
rid of anything thou finds amiss in thyself, thou must not act 
again the same thing thou hast once seen to be evil, or else 
there never can be any reformation. 

Then said the earl (of his own accord and without anything 
particularly introductory thereto by either of us), " You are a 
very useful people in the nation, and, I think, deserve encour- 
agement as well as any in it. I know your people are not 
generally satisfied with the affirmation; because I have been 
often applied to for relief of such as have suffered that way, 
and have always done what I could to relieve them, and have 
helped many : But as the king and government look upon you 
favorably, it were better you were relieved by law; and if 
you will move the Parliament for further relief, you shall not 
want any help I can make you; and, I know, many are inclined 
to favor you on tkat account : And what do you want besides 
this V 

Then I said, We are very sensible of the good intentions of 
the government in what they have already done on that ac- 
count ; but as thou has been pleased to observe (though we 
are not come at this time to make any complaint about it), we 
were not generally easy in it : And as the king and nobility, 
in some other cases, have been as fathers and supports unto 
us, so we were glad to see their good inclinations still, and 
hoped we should not desire any unreasonable thing, there 
being one wherein we yet want your further aid ; and that is, 
to be further relieved against the tyranny and oppression of 
your priests ; and I hope, said I (by the way), the Legislature 
of Great Britain will, in due time, take care, that it shall 
never more be in the power of the clergy to jostle the throne. 

Then said the earl, ''You would not have us, I hope, break 



FRUITS OF QUAKERISM. 313 

in upon the laws, and deprive tlie ministers of the maintenance 
the law provides them ? at least till we can see as you see/' 

No, said I, we are very far from desiring anything that may 
bring the least reflection, or any just imputation of blame, 
upon any of you; but are as careful of your true honor as 
you yourselves can be : nor do we desire to lead you into any 
inconveniency, or blameworthy thing, if it were in our power j 
and so far are we from setting up any new craft, under any 
new umbrage, that we would have all men to see with their 
own eyes, and not to undertake anything, but upon sure and 
certain grounds : but as the legislature, with very good intent, 
have made laws for the more easy recovery of what you call 
their dues, these laws prove very oppressive to many poor, 
honest, industrious families : for so mean spirited are some of 
your country justices in divers parts of the nation, and under 
the influence of the worst natured sort of your clergy, that 
where the demand may happen to be but a groat, sixpence or 
a shilling, some of them will award the highest fees the law 
allows, which is ten shillings ; which, though a small sum 
among you great men, is much to those who must earn it with 
the sweat of their brows, at two pence, four pence, six pence 
or twelve pence a day : And, besides this, the former destruc- 
tive ways of proceeding in the Exchequer for tythes being still 
left in the power of your priests, many of them decline the 
more gentle way which the law provides, and make choice of 
this, if, peradventure, they may at least ruin and destroy some 
of us ; which we hope may not be unworthy of the further 
consideration of our superiors, so inclinable to equity in our 
favor. 

"Now, " said he," you say something; which, as you say, may 
bear some further consideration : and I know some of your 
people have suffered by exorbitant fees ; for as complaint has 
been made to me, I have relieved several on that account : 
But, pray, on this occasion, upon what ground do you refuse 
to pay tythes ; were they not commanded of G^od ?" 

We do not deny but that they were commanded of God; 
but they were made payable to the tribe of Levi, and located 
27 



314 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

in the land of Canaan only, a country at tlie head of the 
Mediterranean Sea, in Asia; but, by the coming of Christ, 
there is an end of that law by which tythes were given, and 
an end of that tribe (though your clergy still pray for them- 
selves under that name, the better to insinuate their pretended 
right), and the land itself where they were payable, now in 
the hands of the Turks ; so that the reason of the thing failing, 
the thing itself also fails : And since Grod by the death of his 
Son, the great high priest and bishop of the soul, hath rejected 
that tribe, and that service, and established a new one, to 
whom he hath said, '^ Freely ye have received, freely give •/' we 
do not find he hath empowered any of the princes of the G-en- 
tiles to assign any maintenance for his ministers : but as they 
have been deceived by the subtility of the craft to impose 
upon mankind by laws on that account, so by that wisdom, 
which, in due time, will arise among them, they will yet be 
instrumental to undo what they have done, and leave religion 
and the Gospel upon its own bottom ; which needs no other 
helper than its own Author, or maintenance for its ministers, 
but what itself commands ; and they are really such as labor 
with all their might to make the Grospel they preach without 
charge : so far are they from destroying the people for the 
maintenance of their bodies, that they have no other reason 
or inducement for what they do, but obedience to the calling 
of God, and the good of souls ; whereas the end of hirelings, 
though supported by law, is their own bellies. 

^' Well/^ said he, '^you don't like our ministers; but after all, 
I think you want but one thing to make you a very complete 
people ; that is, to bear arms. Pray what would have become 
of this whole nation t'other day when the Spaniards were com- 
ing to invade us, if we had all, or greatest part, been of your 
religion? No doubt we should all have been destroyed or 
enslaved." 

To this I answered, it was upon this very political consider- 
tion that the Jews crucified Christ ; for as he had raised Laza- 
rus from the dead, it greatly awakened the people concerning 
him, and many believed in him; insomuch that the rulers 



FRUITS OF QUAKERISM. 315 

began to fear, tliat if he continued to preach his doctrines 
among the people, and work miracles, the body of the people 
would follow him : and the consequence of that would be, the 
state would not have soldiers or people enough to defend them 
against their enemies : For as it was prophesied that, under 
the new covenant, " they shall beat their swords into plough- 
shares, and their spears into pruning-hooks ; and that nation 
shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn 
war any more :" So Christ being the Mediator of that covenant, 
preached doctrines conducing to that end : " Love your ene- 
mies ', do good to them that hate you ; pray for them that 
despitefully use you and persecute you." And, to take away 
all suspicion of any disloyalty to Caesar, or danger of the state 
from his kingdom (which was their pretence against him), he 
said to Pontius Pilate, " My kingdom is not of this world : 
for if my kingdom were of this world, then would my ser- 
vants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews, but my 
kingdom is not of this world." Here he declares his king- 
dom not to be of this world, being divine and spiritual, and 
that his servants will not fight : For if they love their enemies 
they cannot fight with them, much less their friends; and if 
they do good to them that hate them, they cannot fight with 
them neither; and if they pray for them that despitefully use 
them and persecute them, neither can they fight with them ; 
and if they do not as Christ teacheth, they cannot be his dis- 
ciples : For ^' Then are ye my friends, or disciples indeed," 
said the Lord, " if ye do whatsoever I command you." Now, 
Christ laying the foundation of such a kingdom, which is not 
of the world, though in the world, and declaring his subjects 
will not fight, it is in this kingdom, which is a kingdom of 
righteousness, truth, and peace, in which the prophecy before 
mentioned is begun to be fulfilled ; and of this kingdom Christ 
himself, the Prince of righteousness and peace, is only King, 
Ruler, and Lawgiver; and which no way interferes with the 
kingdoms of this world : For as Christ himself, being born a 
Jew, and they, at that time, subject, in some sort, to the Ro- 
mans, paid tribute to Caesar, and thereby giving an example 



31G T. story's conversations, etc. 

to all his disciples, in all cottntries and states, and in all future 
ages, as well as that time : so the disciples of Christ, though 
they may not fight, they pay taxes and tribute to civil states, 
as well by the example of their Lord and Master as the doc- 
trine of the apostle, in the 13th chapter to the Romans; where 
he sets forth clearly, that civil states and powers are of God, 
and that their end is, to be "a terror to evil doers, and a praise 
to them that do well.'^ Since, then, the kingdom of Christ is 
not of this world ; neither is it national, but spiritual : And it 
cannot be supposed that any one nation will ever be the Church 
of Christ, which is not national, and so subjected to the vio- 
lence of any other nation : But God, "by whom kings reign, 
and princes decree justice," having ordained government and 
rule, intrusts it with whom he pleases; and the temporal 
sword, as well of civil magistracy as military force, being in the 
hands of kings and mlers, to exercise it as need shall be, they, 
and not the disciples of Christ, must apply and administer 
accordingly, till, by degrees, the kingdom of Christ, the Prince 
of divine peace, have the ascendant over all kingdoms : Not 
by violence, for his servants can offer none : ^' Not by might 
nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord.'^ It will not 
be by human force or policy, but by conviction ; not by vio- 
lence, but consent, that " the kingdoms of this world will be- 
come the kingdoms of God, and of his Christ." Nor will the 
kingdoms and powers in this world ever cease (being God's 
ordinance in natural and civil affairs), till the reason of them 
cease; that is, till all violence and injustice cease, and evil 
doing come to an end, by the advancement of truth, righte- 
eousness, love, and peace over all nations ; which is the true 
end of the coming of the Lord Jesus, and nature of his king- 
dom here on earth : So that as the kingdom of Christ can 
offer no other violence to the kingdoms or states of men than 
that of love and truth, and his subjects may not fight, but pay 
taxes, customs, tribute, fear and honor to all kings, powers, 
and states, in all nations where they are chosen of God out of 
the world to serve him, and bear testimony to his name ; neither 
Jew nor Greek, barbarian, Scythian, Mahometan, infidel, or 



FRUITS OF QUAKERISM. 317 

nominal Christian, can have any reasonable jealousy of the true 
Christian, whose practice is according to the doctrine and com- 
mandments of his Lord and Master, Christ Jesus : and who- 
soever falls short of that ceases to be his disciple, and reverts 
to the world : But to his disciples he saith, '' Ye are not of 
the world, but God hath chosen you out of the world. If ye 
were of the world, the world would love you ; for the world 
loveth its own : But ye are not of the world, therefore the 
world hateth you ; But marvel not that the world hateth you, 
for it hated me before it hated you." So that upon the whole, 
this nation is not in danger of the Spaniard, or of any other 
nation, by reason of our principle, or for want of our help in 
fighting ; which we have not declined, because we durst not, or 
could not use the weapons of war; for many of us have been 
fighters; and I myself have worn a sword, and knew very well 
how to use it : but being convinced of the evil, by the Spirit 
of the Lord Jesus, working in us a conformity to the will of 
God, and subjecting us to himself, as subjects of his peaceable 
kingdom, 'tis neither cowardice in ourselves, or rebellion, or 
disloyalty to kings or rulers, whom God, in the course of his 
providence, advances in nations, but conscience towards God, 
and obedience to his dear Son, the Prince of Peace, our Lord 
and Saviour Jesus Christ, which make us decline fighting. 

To this effect, and much in the same words, was my answer 
to the earl; who heard me with great patience and candor, and 
then replied, " Tis true,'' said he, ^'so long as you behave 
peaceably, are loyal to the government, and pay your taxes, as 
you do, I think, when all's done, there is not an absolute neces- 
sity for your personal service in war, since his majesty may 
always have soldiers enough for money, as he may have occa- 
sion." 

True, said I, and there are but few, in comparison of the 
whole body of the people, that serve personally in war ; and 
without all doubt, volunteers, of all others, are fittest for that 
service; where no man jeopards his life but by his own con- 
sent, choice, and inclination, and has no man to blame but 
himself in the consequences of it, with respect either to body 



318 T. story's convebsationS; etc. 

or soul; since both may be in hazard, as men may be stated in 
such undertakings. 

Some time being spent in what I have here related, and 
things seeming to sit well on this great man's mind, I was 
willing to withdraw; and then rising upon my feet, I said 
further unto him, considering thy station and resort, we may 
trespass, though undesigned, on thy time, which may be ne- 
cessarily employed on public services ; but if I might have 
liberty to wait on thee at leisure times, I do not doubt but to 
make all these points we have gone upon, and all others wherein 
we differ from other professors of Christianity, as clear as the 
sun at noon-day, in favor of our profession; and that the same 
thing which now goes under the reproachful name of Quaker- 
ism and error, is no other than primitive and improved Christi- 
anity. 

To which he replied, " I shall be glad to see' you at any 
convenient time. My hour is about nine or ten in the morn- 
ing; and if I should happen to be indisposed, or otherwise 
engaged, I will let you know it, and expect you another time ;" 
which accepting as a favor, I proceeded thus : 

I took notice of what thou said, in this "discourse, concerning 
our preaching and writings, that they seemed both awkward 
and unintelligible: I suppose thou mayest remember something 
of one James Wilson who has waited on thee sometimes to 
solicit thy assistance for relief of several of our Friends. 
'' This is," said he, ^' Wilson of Westmoreland, an honest, 
good man." 'Tis the same, said I. Thou was pleased to 
admit him to some discourse with thee on some points of reli- 
gion on some of those occasions ; and he then promised to send 
thee a book, which would clear up some of those matters, more 
than could then be done by him ; and he hath accordingly 
requested me to present thee with it : and so I gave it him, 
being one of Robert Barclay's Apologies, and said. If thou 
pleases to, read this book over with attention, I hope it will 
give thee some more satisfaction, both concerning the prin- 
ciples we believe and suffer for, ourselves, and our writings. 
He readily received the book, and said, ^* I will peruse it.'' 



FRUITS OF QUAKERISM. 319 

Tlieo, in a moving posture, I said further, It is below the 
Earl of Carlisle to be flattered, and inconsistent with me to do 
it; but this I can say with much freedom, I have often 
remembered thee and thine, with many good wishes, when far 
remote in another part of the world ; and since I returned to 
Europe, have from time to time desired to see thee ; but the 
circumstances of my concerns would not allow me till now. I 
am glad of this opportunity, and thy condescension herein, 
and may make use of the liberty given me, in some other con- 
venient time ; and, in the mean time, wish thy happiness and 
prosperity. And so we departed with great satisfaction. 



320 T. story's conversations, etc. 



CHAPTER XLII. 
LOUD LONSDALE. 



1725. 



KNOWLEDGE OF GOD. 

During the time of my abode in this country, having 
some concerns with the Lord Lonsdale, I went to Lowthor 
Hall, where he then resided, to attend him therein ; where he 
gave me more respect than I desired or expected ; and, after I 
had finished my business with him, after supper, he moved 
some discourse concerning some points of religion, there being 
none else in the company but Counsellor Blencoe, a young 
lawyer. The point chiefly discussed, was the knowledge of 
God, and by what means mankind may arrive at it; in which 
I was drawn out to this purpose, That many wise and ingenious 
men apply themselves, with success, to the knowledge of things 
in this life, and relating thereto, and yet keep not within the 
strict rules of virtue; whereby their knowledge vanishes in 
the end, as not subservient to the purposes of another world : 
wherefore I recommended them to a real inquiry after the 
knowledge of God, as the most noble and most profitable sub- 
ject a rational being could be concerned about, and altogether 
necessary in order to our happiness, as well in this as in a 
future state ; which man cau never arrive at by the utmost 
efibrts of human reason : for though a rational being cannot 
deny, but conclude there is a God, by the works of the crea- 
tion, which produced not themselves, but were produced by 
another; and though reason must conclude the Creator to be 
eternal, without beginning or end, all-wise, all-knowing, all- 
powerful, omnipresent, holy, righteous, just, and good, in all 
divine perfections unchangeable, &c., and though in all these 



KNOWLEDGE OF UOI). 821 

attributes we read of him in the Holy SeriptureSj and hear clear 
discourses of him frequently made by such as say they know 
him, and, perhaps, in some measure, may; yet all this is but an 
image of knowledge, as to us, until, by the agency of his own 
power and will, he is pleased to work in us such qualifications 
as whereby we may perceive him, and say "this is he,'' through 
that holy and blessed medium, which he himself hath, in good 
will to mankind, provided to that end; that we may believe in 
him, hope for him, know him, have communion with him in a 
degree in this life, and be for ever blessed in the enjoyment 
of him in a future condition : Of which knowledge no man 
can rightly conceive, by anything another can say who hath 
that knowledge, unless he to whom it is said or declared, be in 
himself, in some degree, under the same qualifications, by 
which the things declared or spoken of, present in the mind 
and understanding, by a kind of divine sensation or intuition, 
are self-evidencing by their own nature and energy : As for 
example, to a man born blind, another can find no terms 
whereby to give him a proper and distinct idea of colors, of 
light, and the manner of the discovery of objects by that 
medium unto those that see ; whereas every one that doth, 
concludes the same thing by a kind of sensitive intuition, at 
first view, without the expense of ratiocination, or deducing 
conclusions from stated premises : Nor, if we can suppose any 
one has never in his life been touched with any sense of that 
natural afi"ection, or principle, we call love, can any, by any 
terms he can use, inculcate in such a person any idea of the 
thing ? Whereas all the experienced are afi'ected in the same 
manner, though, perhaps, not to the same degree, and need no 
other terras but itself to inculcate the thing. Since, then, in 
natural things, 'tis impossible to exhibit proper ideas to the 
apprehensions of those who are deprived of natural qualifica- 
tions and capacities to receive them ; how much more so in 
spirituals, which cannot find out proper terms by which to 
exhibit them to the view, understanding, or apprehension of 
others; but as we borrow them from natural things, which can 
never reach them as they are ? When it is said, God is a 



322 T. story's conversations^ etc. 

Spirit, a man must first have a distinct idea of a Spirit, before 
he can fix any notion of God by that term ; and by the word 
God, we intend to express an awful and ineffable being, but 
none of these terms exhibit that being to our sense, either in 
fear or love. I come, then, to some positive expressions of 
Christ; viz., "No man hath known the Father but the Son, 
and to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. This is life 
eternal, to know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ 
whom thou hast sent." " No man can come unto me, except 
the Father, which has sent me, draw him. No man hath seen 
God at any time, the only begotten (or first begotten) Son of 
God, who dwelleth in the bosom of the Father, he hath maui- 
fested (or revealed) him.'' 

By this it appears, 1st. That God may be known ; though 
not immediately, but by a proper medium. 

2d. That this medium is Christ the Word of God; who 
having a reasonable soul, and clothed therewith as a veil, is 
homogeneal to mankind, and thereby proportions the splendor 
of his glory, as God, to the state of every soul; gradually 
revealing or manifesting the Father therein, according to the 
degrees of purification, capacity, and qualification he worketh 
in it. 

3d. That this knowledge is an experience, and gives the 
soul a certain evidence and assurance of eternal life ; and God 
himself is that eternal life. 

4th. That as the knowledge of the Son makes way for the 
knowledge of the Father; so the drawings of the Father excite 
to the knowledge of the Son. 

It is not, therefore, the knowledge of the things of God, or 
of all his attributes, or of any, or all formal truths, but of God 
himself, who is the essential truth, in which our happiness 
stands, and for ever shall remain : For there are essential truths, 
and there are formal truths. Jesus Christ, the wisdom of 
God, and power of God, is that essential truth; and that he is 
the Son of God, was incarnate, lived as a man here on earth, 
was crucified as a propitiation for the sins of the whole world, 
died, rose again, ascended, is glorified in heaven, &c., are all 



KNOWLEDGE OF GOD. 323 

formal and unalterable truths : and yet the knowledge of all 
these don't give life eternal, until the soul comes to experience 
the indwelling of the essential truth, in its nature and being, 
through that holy and blessed medium, homogeneal unto all; 
which cannot be until we be reduced into a state of holiness 
and purity of mind. And therefore, to illustrate all I have 
said in a practical way, give me leave to add a little further : 
Whilst I was yet in a natural and unconverted state, I be- 
lieved the being of God, and all his attributes, essential and 
adopted ; but I did not actually know God to be righteous or 
holy, till he reproved unrighteousness or unholiness in me ; or 
merciful and good, until, through condemnation of evil, con- 
vincing me of evil in myself, he also pardoned the acts of sin, 
and destroyed the effects thereof, by the agency of his own 
power, working that change that is meet, according to his 
own will.; through which I experience both his goodness and 
mercy : nor had I known him as a consuming fire, unless, by 
the refining operation of his Spirit, he had consumed my 
corruptions, or begun that work ; or that he is love, divine and 
unspeakable love, unless, by his own power, he had fitted me, 
in some measure, to enjoy the influences of his grace in a state 
of holiness ; in which he rules as a monarch in the soul, 
according to that saying, The kingdom of Heaven stands not 
in meats and drinks (no outward or natural enjoyments) ; but 
in righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost : which 
I know, through grace, infinitely transcends, even in this life, 
all that can be named besides. 

And though formal truths are commonly clouded and con- 
founded by the perverse and ignorant reasonings of the learned 
of this world, and numerous opinions and sects are produced 
and engendered thereby ; yet the essential truth is self- 
evidencing; and whenever it appears in the soul, she cannot 
deny or doubt, but by the cogency of his power and virtue, 
certainly and infallibly conclude in herself, that this is he ; for 
as there is no way or medium, by which we discover or perceive 
the body of the sun in the firmament of heaven outward, but by 
the light which proceeds from it; so there is not any medium by 



824 T. story's conversations, etc. 

which we can know God, but by his own light and Truth, 
which is Jesus Christ, the efflux and emanation of his own 
glory and being, and through that holy and homogeneal mind 
wherewith he is veiled. 

And as the light of the sun carries along with it the power 
and virtue of the sun wherever it shineth in its own unclouded 
rays, and by its influence nourishes and makes fertile the ani- 
mal and vegetable worlds ; even so, and much more also, doth 
the heavenly Sun of Righteousness, Jesus Christ, the essential 
Truth and light of the rational and intellectual world, arise, 
make known, and manifest himself in the soul; into whom, by 
the rays of his divine light, he introduceth and dispenseth the 
influence of air divine heavenly virtue : into them, I mean, 
who believe and obey in the day of small things ; according to 
that doctrine of an experienced holy man, " Whatsoever things 
are reproved, are made manifest by the light ; for whatsoever 
makes manifest, is light :" and again ; according to that say- 
ing of the Truth himself: " I am the light of the world, who- 
soever followeth me, shall not abide in darkness, but have the 
lidit of life :" We must therefore beo;in at the word of re- 
proof, in order to the sure knowledge of God, and enjoyment 
of him, as he is love, and an ocean of unspeakable pleasure; 
and renounce the low and sordid pleasures of the animal life, 
which unqualify for divine enjoyments here and hereafter : 
But love God, love his judgments and reproofs in your hearts; 
which are all in love, in order to the manifestation of himself, 
according to that saying, " Every son whom I love, I rebuke 
and chasten, saith the Lord/' And I can assure you, if you 
can believe me, that as I have tasted of the pleasures of this 
world, and through the goodness of God, known condemna- 
tion therein ; so, through his great mercy, I am favored of 
him with this certain experience in some measure ; that the 
enjoyment of God in a state of reconciliation, is undeclarably 
more excellent and eligible than all other things ; to the expe- 
rience whereof I would recommend and excite you. This 
being the substance of what then passed among us, the Lord 
Lonsdale, being a veiy ingenious person, of strong natural 



KNOWLEDGE OF GOD. 325 

parts and penetration, asked me, " Since you had, before you 
came to the knowledge of God, in the way you have spoken 
of, believed the being of God, and all his attributes, did that 
knowledge make any alteration in your way of thinking on 
that subject, or give you any contrary sentiments that way ?" 

I replied, No ; for as reason, a constituent property of man, 
is still the same, and things causeable thereto, or thereby, as 
its proper objects the same also, so the knowledge of God 
makes no alteration there: The major contains the minor; the 
whole is greater than a part } one and two make three, and 
ever have done, and ever will in the view of reason, though 
that, of itself, can never give the saving and experimental 
knowledge of the Almighty, as I have before observed. 

Then he was pleased to say, " Some things you have hinted 
at are new to me, which I have never read of in any book, or 
heard before/' 

By the time all this was finished, and some intervening 
questions and objections answered, it was about one in the 
morning, and then we went to rest, and the next day, after 
dinner, I departed thence in peace. 



28 



326 T. story's conversations, etc. 

CHAPTEH XLIII. 
LORD LONSDALE. 

1725. 



TITHES AND MAINTENANCE. 

Since that time, upon another like occasion, I had some far- 
ther discourse with the same Lord Lonsdale, upon another 
subject, viz., that of tithes and maintenance. 

He was pleased to .allege, though perhaps not seriously, 
" That kings, and great men, being possessed of countries, and 
large quantities of land, gave the tenths to the support of 
ministers; and the same laws which gave nine parts to the 
laity, gave the tenth to the clergy.'^ 

To this I replied, that the law gives no property, but protects 
the possessor in it against violence. And then I deduced pro- 
perty from its original, thus : The first property a man hath is 
his person, life, and liberty; and as these are from God, and 
the right of all men, so he has provided means for the support 
of them, unto all. The means of the support of person and 
life, is food and raiment, arising either naturally from the fruits 
of the earth,' spontaneously growing, animal creatures, or by 
the personal labor or industry of man. 

Cain, 'tis said, was a tiller of the ground, and Abel a keeper 
of sheep. When Cain had cleared and cultivated a piece of 
ground, and propagated useful things thereon, that and those 
became the property of Cain by his personal labor ; in which 
the law of natural reason will protect him against anything but 
personal violence : and Abel, taking under his care and man- 
agement some of the creatures he found most proper for his 
use and purpose, they became his property, by his care, labor, 
and pains, in which also he was protected by the same law : 



TITHES AND MAINTENANCE. 327 

and all just laws are no other tlian right reason, declared by 
way of compact upon that principle of reason constituent of 
our being : But when the earth was filled with violence, God, 
by the element of water, destroyed the world, save Noah and 
his family; by whom he replenished it. 

In process of time, " Nimrod became a mighty hunter 
before the Lord ;" that is, his hunting was of that nature and 
tendency, as that God took notice of him therein : for he with 
his company, first hunting wild beasts, became wild also them- 
selves, and then hunted after the liberties and properties of 
other men, invading them by force and numbers ; till the rest 
of mankind, in their own just defence, entered into reasonable 
compacts against unreasonable invasions, repelling an unjust 
violence, by a just and equitable force or power. 

Having essayed to fix a proper idea of the rise of property, 
I next observe how men may forfeit it, in all these respects, 
in the sight of God ; and that is, by extreme wickedness ; as 
may be instanced in a malefactor, who, by his evil deeds, 
forfeits his life, liberty, or property, or all : but then no private 
person can take cognisance of such ofiences, incurring such 
forfeitures, other than to bear witness against the offender, in 
order to conviction and adequate punishment before a proper 
stated judicature, of which no nation is destitute, though vary- 
ing in circumstances. Since then, property in lands, &c., can- 
not be justly taken away from any one (not forfeiting) without 
consent, what is that consent necessary to that end? It must 
be either in a public or private capacity : private, as by his 
own particular act to give such lands to such a minister or 
priest, on condition of certain services, or saying so many 
masses or prayers, either for the living or the dead, or the like; 
or for the service of religion in general, according to the notion 
the donor had of it : or public, as where the legislature of 
any country, for politic views and interests, make laws for the 
alienating of the property of the subjects, with or without their 
private or particular consent ; where, though property is truly 
invaded, yet the major directing the minor, the compulsion to 
obedience is held lawful and just, whatever it may be in the 



328 T. story's conversations, etc. 

nature of the thing; and particulars sit under the burden 
where they have no redress : But all this binds not the con- 
science, though property is forced. 

All which I apply as followeth : This nation was once free 
from all tithes, and other impositions of that set of men, enslav- 
ing the world on pretence of the liberty of the Gospel, till 
antichristian priestcraft, more subtle than that of the heatheo, 
so far seduced' the minds of weak and ignorant men, prone to 
superstition and idolatry, that they often gave away to the 
priests even their whole substance, at least on their dying 
beds, for pretended chimerical services, merely imaginary ; 
for praying the departed souls of themselves, or friends, out 
of a supposititious purgatory, with such and such masses, on 
such and such days, which so far prevailed in this nation, that 
the legislature, fearing the whole lands would, in time, fall into 
the hands of the priests, made a law, called the ''Statute of 
Mortmain,'' as a means to prevent it : which, in some degree, 
answered the end, and clogged their proceedings : But I do 
not remember I have seen any law, by the legislature of this 
kingdom, for imposing of tithes, or so much as for the re- 
covery of them, or anything to the priests under the notion 
of dues, until the reign of King Henry VIII., when men's 
eyes began to be so far opened, that many throughout the 
nation refused to pay them, as may appear by the preamble 
of the statutes for that end made in his reign ; which esta- 
blishes the customs on foot in favor of the priests (and, no 
doubt, originally of their own beginning and imposing) for 
forty years before : which statutes being defective, they were 
corroborated by the second statute of Edward VI., still in 
force : By all which it appears, that this set of men never 
came fairly and equitably to the large and unreasonable share 
they demand, and receive out of the property of others : espe- 
cially of those who do not, nay cannot, receive them and their 
pretended services, as Gospel ministers, and means of salva- 
tion ; since the Author of religion himself hath commanded his 
ministers, that as " freely they have received they shall freely 
give." 



TITHES AND MAINTENANCE. 329 

The laws of the land therefore, upon the whole, though 
thej bind the property by a sort of national violence, yet they 
can never bind the conscience : for which, and the Lord of 
conscience, we suffer with patience, as witnesses on earth for 
him who reigneth in heaven; until, in the course of his provi- 
dence, he appears for our relief, who is the King of kings, and 
Lord of lords, and doth what he will in and with the kingdoms 
of men. 

My noble antagonist replied, and not without a little pleas- 
antness, that he would not yet yield me the argument ; though 
he was pleased to propose another subject, of a different tenor. 



28 



\ story's conversations, etc. 

CHAPTER XLIV. 
EAEL OF CAELISLE. 

1726. 



TEOUBLES AND TEMPTATIONS. 

On the 11th I made a visit to the Earl of Carlisle, at Castle 
Howard, about three miles from Malton. He was confined to 
his chamber in a fit of gout, but sending up my name, he 
readily admitted me, and expressed some satisfaction to see 
me; and being set down, after a little pause of silence, he 
moved a discourse to this purpose : That as mankind are inci- 
dent to many troubles and temptations in life, he observed a 
great difi'erence between the trouble of mind which ariseth from 
losses and disappointments in the things of the world, and 
that which proceeds from a sense of the misconduct of life, in 
a course inconsistent with duty to God and his known laws ; 
and in the first instanced a man's hazarding his all, in one 
bottom, at sea, and suffering shipwreck. 

This great truth I confirmed in the words of Solomon, 
"The spirit of a man may bear his infirmity; but a wound- 
ed spirit who can bear V Magnanimous persons may sustain 
for a long time the shocks of bodily ailments, as likewise 
of losses and disappointments in life: but when, by our 
rebellion and disobedience to that holy law of life and grace 
(which God in mercy hath placed in us, for our guide and 
conductor, with respect to himself, and towards one another), 
we wound not only our own consciences, but crucify to ourselves 
the Son of God afresh, and wound his Holy Spirit in us, our 
anxiety must needs be incomparably greater in this case than 
the former. Yet such is the unspeakable goodness of God to 
mankind, and the efi&cacy of the virtue of that grace that flows 



TROUBLES AND TEMPTATIONS. 331 

from hira, that he does not only show us our transgressions, 
and the evil of them ; nor only the wounds and gangrene sores 
thereby produced; but, as we are truly humbled in that view, 
and willing to amend for time to come, he, most kind and 
beneficent, sends forth his healing and restoring virtue, as 
emollient ointment, taking away the anguish, and healing all 
our wounds. 

This introduced a large field of discourse on such and the 
like subjects, which held near three hours; and I believe to 
mutual satisfaction, and much upon the particular points fol- 
lowing, viz. : 

1. Faith in Christ, as come in the flesh, being the "Word, 
power, and wisdom of God, assuming our nature, in a person 
separate from all men, as all others are. 2. Faith in him as 
a quickening Spirit, and divine light, flowing from the Father 
into our minds, afiecting and influencing both body and mind 
at certain times and modes, and degrees, as pleaseth him ; 
being as a condemning law in us whilst we are in a state of un- 
belief, sin, and rebellion ; but a law of divine and immortal life, 
and true comforter in a penitent and faithful state ; to which 
he himself reduceth us by his judgments and by his mercy, in- 
wardly revealed and applied : by the ministration of judgment, 
wasting, as with divine fire and sword, the whole body of the 
sins of the flesh and carnal mind ; and at the same time, in 
and by the same Spirit, manifesting and applying mercy and 
life eternal to the believing, humble, and penitent soul ; and 
so completing that salvation declared by the coming of Jesus 
Christ, his death and suff'erings. 

The kingdom of Christ in this world, ruling and reigning in 
the minds of regenerate men, by his grace and Spirit, as King 
of Salem, Prince of Righteousness and peace, in all them that 
believe and obey ; who are the children of this kingdom in 
divine communion. The kingdoms of men, established by 
the providence of God for the government of the world in its 
natural state, for the preservation of life, liberty, character, 
property; the better sort of men, in a moral social state, being 
children of this kinsTdom. 



382 T. story's conversations, etc. 

3. The kingdom of Antichrist, being a false show, counter- 
feit, and pretence of Chri.stianity, under which all cruelties 
and oppressions are, and have been acted to the destruction 
of life, limb, liberty, property, and religion : And the children 
of this kingdom are priests, professing Christ, but living to 
themselves ; being called by hopes of honor, power, and advan- 
tages in this world, and not of the Lord : And the great men 
and small of this world confederating with them in worldly 
views, against the natural and common interests of the rest of 
mankind, enslaving the conscience by force of human laws of 
their own devising, according to that observation of Christ to 
his disciples, " Do not great men haul you out of the syna- 
gogues before the judgment seats ?" and the like ', in all which 
they are influenced (and often out of their own sight) by a 
devouring, destroying spirit, contrary to the nature of Christ; 
who is a mild, innocent, and saving power, most gentle, wise, 
and beneficent, bringing forth in men his own fruits, and 
making them like unto himself; as Antichrist renders all his 
children like unto him, proud, lofty, angry, fierce, cruel and 
unjust, blood-thirsty, arbitrary, and tyrannical, without com- 
passion and mercy, implacable and unreasonable; as is ever 
seen in all persecutors, whether under the pretence and um- 
brage of national laws, or despotic and absolute domination 
and rule. With some other important matters, not now to be 
fully collected. 



CEREMONIES OF THE NATIONAL CHURCH. 333 



CHAPTER XLV. 
EARL OF CARLISLE. 

1731. 



CEREMONIES OF THE NATIONAL CHURCH. 

On the 5th, I called at Castle Howard, and dined with the 
Earl of Carlisle and his family; the Lord Cornbury being 
likewise there. About the conclusion of our dinner, the earl, 
in a frank manner, moved some discourse about the cere- 
monies of the National Church, and asked me if we would 
join with them, in case they would lay aside the surplice, and 
sign of the cross in baptism ? 

I answered, Lay these things aside, and then we will confer 
with you about the rest. 

Then said the earl, '' These things are no way essential to 
religion, and may well be spared ; and we have no foundation 
in Scripture for them, and some other things we use." 

Then said his chaplain, "Things innocent in their own 
nature may be enjoined by the Church and the legislature; 
and thence arises a duty to obedience." 

The earl replied, " That whatever is invented and imposed 
by man, in matters of religion, more than what was ordained 
by Christ, and taught by him and his apostles, is vicious, and 
ought not to be regarded;" (0 noble confession !) and dis- 
missed his chaplain with a frown, whilst I was asking him 
this question, When and where did the Lord Jesus ever give 
power to any temporal prince or state to add, alter, or dimin- 
ish, the religion he himself established on the earth ? Is not 
he all-sufl&cient in himself for that, without the direction, con- 



334 T. story's conversations, etc. 

currence, or aid of any other power, since all power in heaven 
and earth is given unto him ? 

The chaplain departing the room, muttering, I requested 
liberty of the earl for a few words further, that since he had 
been pleased to mention their baptism, and object to an inci- 
dent of it, as now used by them, I hoped it would not be 
ill resented, if I endeavored* to inform him how we understood 
the Christian baptism ; and having his countenance therein, I 
proceeded, That John the Baptist, being moved by the Word, 
or Spirit of Grod, to call the Jews to repentance, and to baptize, 
or wash in water, so many as believed his doctrine, and went 
to him to that end, he foretold them of another to come after 
him, much more worthy, and to be preferred, who should 
baptize them with a more excellent, powerful, and efficacious 
baptism ; that is to say, the Lord Jesus Christ, with the Holy 
Ghost and fire. 

That John did not baptize in any particular name, but di- 
rected his disciples to believe in one who was to come after 
him, who himself did not know when he first began to preach 
and baptize; but John having a sign from heaven concerning 
Christ, believed in him, and directed all to follow him : And 
as repentance was, at that time, the necessary doctrine to the 
Jews, Christ himself preached repentance, and likewise his 
disciples ; and his disciples also baptized with water as John 
did, and at the same time, but with this difference, that John 
baptized not in any name, but the disciples of Christ, most 
probably, in the name of the Lord Jesus, whom they had 
rightly believed to be the true Messiah, and in whose name 
alone, after he was declared to be the sent of Grod, all the 
water baptism we ever find in Scripture to be administered, 
was performed, and never in the name of the Father, Son, 
and Holy Ghost. 

That after the resurrection of Christ, and before his ascen- 
sion, he introduced his baptism, as it was most excellent in 
itself, so with greater dignity and glory, saying, ^' All power 
in heaven and in earth is given unto me ; repentance and re- 
mission of sins must be preached in my name unto all nations, 



CEREMONIES OF THE NATIONAL CHURCH. 335 

beginning at Jerusalem ; and ye shall be witnesses unto me 
in Jerusalem, in Judea, in Samaria, in all the regions 
round about, and to the uttermost parts of the earth : Go ye 
therefore, teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of 
the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe 
all things whatsoever I have commanded you. Go into all the 
earth, and preach the Gospel unto every creature. He that 
believeth and is baptized, shall be saved ; and he that believ- 
eth not, shall be damned : And, lo, I am with you always, 
even unto the end of the world.'' 

But notwithstanding this narrative and commandment from 
the mouth of him who hath all power in heaven and earth, he 
knew that his disciples could not of themselves, nor by this 
commandment only, baptize with this baptism (though they 
had by his command, or countenance, baptized with water), 
without the actual and present power of the Father, Son, and 
Holy Ghost, in one dispensation ; and therefore he added, at 
the same time, this further command and restriction, " But 
tarry ye at Jerusalem till ye have received power from on 
high 'J' and then he informs them what power that was, 
" You shall have power after that the Holy Ghost is come 
upon you." And lest they should mistake, and think he was 
instituting another water baptism, he contradistinguishes this 
his baptism from water baptism, saying, ^^ John truly baptized 
with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not 
many days hence." So that it is evident according to the 
testimony of holy writ, that this institution was not any water 
baptism, nor any water concerned in it, but distinguished from 
it ; but is the same by John ascribed to Christ, and is the 
baptism of the Spirit only. And this we own, and this only, 
to be the baptism in the Church of Christ, initial by its pow- 
erful effects, into the Church, which is his body, the ground 
and pillar of truth, " the fulness of him who filleth all in all." 

To this neither of these two lords made any reply; but, 
after a short pause, entered into some discourse between them- 
selves, concerning the meaning of John the Baptist, when he 
sent two of his disciples to Christ, to ask whether he was the 



836 T. story's conversations, etc. 

Messiah, after he had so fully before owned and declared him 
to be so. They could not, at first, think the same way about 
his meaning ; one supposing he doubted under the temptation 
of persecution and imprisonment : But that instance being 
advanced, where Christ, speaking to the Father, saith, ^' Holy 
Father, thou always hearest me ; but these things I say in 
the hearing of these (his disciples), that they may believe that 
thou hast sent me :" It was then concluded, that the message 
from John was not for his own sake, or as doubting concern- 
ing Christ; but for the sake of his disciples, and others, for 
their further information and establishment in the faith of 
Christ : and so the conversation ended. 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 337 

CHAPTER XLYI. 
THE EARLS OF CARLISLE AND SUNDERLAND. 

1721. 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 

Some Friends in London, of whom I was one, being in a 
particular manner concerned in mind, that the king and par- 
liament might be addressed for an Affirmation Act more gen- 
erally satisfactory, according to the agreement of our yearly 
meeting on that behalf, I wrote a letter to the Earl of Carlisle 
(ever a sure friend to our society on all occasions), entreating 
his advice to which of the ministry we had best make our first 
application on that account ; and he was pleased to send me 
an answer by one of his servants, wherein he invited me to 
his house in Dover Street, London, to confer on the subject; 
and when there, being together in a parlor, his eldest son, the 
Lord Morpeth, came in, to whom he said, " They (meaning 
Friends) are an honest, good people, serviceable and helpful 
in the nation, and true friends to the government, on the 
principles on which it now stands ; but because of some opin- 
ions they hold in matters of religion, the laws are against them 
in divers respects, and particularly in cases of oaths, which 
they think not lawful for them, as apprehending they are for- 
bid by Christ under the Cospel : Be that as it will, I think 
they deserve relief, and I have ever contributed as much 
towards it in all cases as I could ; and I know, from the many 
applications made to me on that account, that they have suf- 
fered for not taking the oaths, and do suffer very much in 
their families and business, by refusing to take an affirmation, 
intended for their case on that behalf, but does not prove gen- 
erally consistent with their sentiments in that point : and as 
29 



388 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

they may have occasiou, ere long, to solicit the favor of the 
House of Commons for further redress (of which the Lord 
Morpeth was then a member), I expect you will favor them, 
and use your interest on their account;" which the young lord 
promised he would. 

By which I observed that this great man was willing to 
transmit his own good-will towards us as a people, to his son 
and heir apparent, and render it, in a manner, hereditary in 
his family ; for his grandfather had ever been our friend from 
the beginning, and kept off the stroke of persecution in the 
worst of times, wherever he had any power, especially in the 
north of England; where, in those days, he was much con- 
versant. 

Upon this occasion the earl informed me, that the Earl of 
Sunderland, being Secretary of State, in great favor with the 
king, and sway at court, and friendly to us, was the most 
proper person to make our first application to in that point, to 
know the mind of the king (of which we were not altogether 
ignorant before), and on what we might depend from the rest 
of the ministry : " But," said he, " the Earl of Sunderland, 
considering the duty of his ofl&ce, the great business of it, and 
assiduous application necessary therein, cannot be spoke with, 
but at some uncertain times ; but, to make it the easier, as he 
oomes sometimes occasionally to my house, I will give you 
notice of the first opportunity that happens, where you may 
speak with him more freely than you can among a throng of 
people constantly attending him at home," 

He then advised me to have in readiness a copy of the af- 
firmation as it then stood, and also of the form of words agreed 
to in our yearly meeting. Some days after this he sent me a 
letter by a servant, wherein he gave me notice, that the Earl 
of Sunderland was then at his house, and might be spoke with 
before he went thence. I went immediately to him; but, 
when I came there, the low rooms were crowded with people, 
some with applications to one of these great men, and some to 
the other; but notifying to the Earl of Carlisle, by one of his 
servants, that I was come, he came down himself- among the 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 339 

crowd ; and taking me by the hand, invited me to an upper 
room, next to where the Earl of Sunderland was with some 
persons of distinction, and bid me stay there till he came to 
me, which he did in a short time, and then introduced me to the 
Earl of Sunderland; who received me in a very friendly manner. 
I then made known to him my business, and said, ^' That 
though the king, his ministry, and the parliament, had lately 
intended us a great favor, in perpetuating the Affirmation Act 
as it then stood, yet it did not answer the end proposed ; for a 
great part of our people could not comply with it^ the terras, 
in their apprehension, importing a difference from the doctrine 
of Christ." Then I produced the form in the act, and that 
also which our meeting had agreed to ; which, when he had 
read, he said, '' You might have had the latter as soon as the 
former, if you had applied for it ; for what we did in it was 
with intent to serve you in your own way ; and you yourselves 
soliciting for it, we thought we had fully gratified you ; and 
were informed that but a few of you were dissatisfied with that 
form, and those a sect among you misled by Mr. Penn, in dis- 
loyalty to the government, and in favor of the Pretender, and 
who did not desire that favor from the present government, 
hoping for it by another in time ; and those who were satisfied 
with that form were Mr. Mead's friends, and principled for 
the Revolution, and present government in the House of 
Hanover; and the one sort called Pennites, and the other 
Meadites.'^ I replied, This is only a calumny artfully invented 
to defame our society, and render the more distressed part of 
us odious to the king and government, that we might have no 
relief; and it is a great cruelty and hardship : and I have heard 

that Aistaby (then Chancellor of the Exchequer, and 

a member of the House of Commons) was so far imposed upon 
by that suggestion, as to report it in the House, when that 
matter was in debate there, whether the act should be per- 
petuated or not. I added, that I did not know, or ever heard 
of any such sect, party, or parties among us, so attached to 
William Penn or William Mead, or to any other person ; for 
we are not a people subject to be led by sect masters, if any 



840 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

sucli should appear among us, but to follow God and Christ 
only in matters of religion ; and, as such, denying of all oaths 
we believe to be a part of our duty. I was long and intimately 
acquainted with William Penn, and knew his sentiments with 
respect to the government and Pretender ; and though he ever 
retained a great respect for all that family, I believe he did it 
in point of gratitude for the protection he had from the Duke 
of York, afterwards King James, in a time of great persecution, 
and not from any principle of disloyalty to the present king or 
his government : but as to those among us who cannot comply 
with the present form of the affirmation, I know they are 
generally as loyal to King George, and true to his government, 
as any of his subjects in all his dominions; for I have lately 
been among them in a general way. And the Earl of Carlisle 
himself likewise knows, that many of our Friends, whom he 
hath relieved by his interest, who had suffered much for non- 
compliance with the affirmation, were as loyal as any others. 
Then the Earl of Sunderland, being himself a very good friend 
of William Penn, spoke respectfully of him, and said, '^ That 
gentleman (meaning Aistaby) was not your friend at that time, 
but you will find him otherwise now :" And then added, with 
a smile, " He shall be your friend." To which I returned, 
It is enough ! Then he said, '^ It is not so easy a matter as 
you may think, to bring a thing of this nature through both 
Houses 3 yet we can do it, and you need not go to the king 
about it j for you are in his favor, and therefore he will not 
oppose what we (meaning the ministry) may think proper to 
advise him. And I can tell you more, the greatest part of the 
bishops will be for you : we have seventeen of them secure 
already, and there may be more by the time that it may be 
proper to go upon it. But then," said he, ^' will this please 
you if done ? Will you make no further scruple about it ?" 
To which I replied. If you will be pleased to enact this form 
or something of like import of no higher nature, I dare venture 
to say our society will not give you any further trouble 
about it. And I told him, I do not come at this time by any 
direction of our society, but only with the privity of a few, 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 341 

who are of the dissatisfied, to learn the mind of the ministry, 
and to be instructed what measures to take in this affair; since 
we are determined not to move, but by their privity and assist- 
ance ; though both the satisfied and dissatisfied are one in this 
solicitation : for as the one side hath been willing the other 
should have their liberty to use it, when they could freely do 
it, for relief of their families, without any breach of union 
among us ; so the other are willing to join with them in one 
interest, to solicit for such a form as may be easier to all. 

All this being ended, I made him acknowledgments for his 
favor, and returned with satisfaction and peace, not doubting 
from thenceforward but that we should succeed. 



29* 



342 T. story's conversations, etc. 

CHAPTER XLVII. 
WILLIAM WAKE, ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY. 

1721. 

THE AFFIEMATION ACT. 

John Fallowfield, myself, and one more, going to Lam- 
beth, to solicit tlie concurrence of William Wake, then Arch- 
bishop of Canterbury, with us, in our endeavors with the king 
and parliament to procure an affirmation (instead of an oath) 
in terms less exceptionable than that then in force, the bishop 
gave us a courteous and friendly reception ; and when we had 
told him our business, and exhibited our request, he, in a 
solemn manner, expressed himself thus : *' Because of oaths 
the land mourns j and it is shocking to observe with what 
levity and insensibility oaths are administered and taken in 
this nation ! I am for liberty of conscience, where that is 
truly the case, and could wish there were not any form of 
words of any higher nature than you now solicit for, to be 
used in this land in any case whatever ; but if we should grant 
it to you only, I fear the people would resent it, and blame 
us." To this I answered, '' that if he and the clergy would 
heartily concur in soliciting for the establishment of such a 
form as we now desired, I did believe our people would readily 
exert their utmost endeavors that way/' 

Then said the bishop, ^' Put the case, that any controversy 
should arise between any of the clergy and any of your people 
concerning what we call our dues, do not you think it were 
reasonable that we and our evidences should be admitted in 
the controversy to the same form of words as you ?" 

John Fallowfield answered, "That he thought that could 
not be reasonable, unless they had the same way of thinking 



THE AFFIRxMATION ACT. 343 

as we^ and did believe themselves under the same obligation 
to speak truth in evidence without an oath, as with one, as we 
do ; for Ivino; and false witness are breaches of the commands 
of Grod, and mortal sins as well as perjury. And if your peo- 
ple, or such of them as might be called to witness, should 
happen to think otherwise, or that they were not so strictly 
tied up by such a form of words as by an oath, they might 
equivocate, or venture to falsify ; so that we could not have 
equal security.'' The bishop very moderately took this answer, 
and made no reply. 

Then I took the occasion to say to the bishop, that notwith- 
standing the lenity of the government, and the provision the 
legislature had made, for the more easy and less destructive 
way of recovery of what the clergy called their dues ; yet 
many of the inferior sort still continued to take the most 
chargeable and ruinous methods, in the Courts of Exchequer 
and Chancery ; whereby many families were greatly distressed 
and reduced, if not ruined : which did not only greatly op- 
press our friends, but fixed an ill character and odium upon 
the clergy themselves in general : for there is not a man so 
poor, if he is honest and a good man, but that he is loved and 
respected by his neighbors ; and when such are oppressed by 
any of the clergy (though by a law), mankind, who observe it, 
are not always so just as to place the odium upon the single 
and immediate oppressor, but rather apply it to the whole 
body, and say. See here the clergy, who pretend to teach reli- 
gion, how uncharitable, how covetous, how cruel they are : 
here is a poor honest man and his family ruined for a trifle. 
Now, considering the station and authority thou bears in the 
National Church, if thou would be pleased to advise them to 
greater moderation, it might be helpful to many, and prevent 
the odium which really militates against themselves, as well as 
oppresses us. 

The bishop, being a mild-tempered man, did not at all take 
this freedom amiss, but replied, '^ That he had not that authority 
over the inferior clergy that we might think; for," said he, 
^' they have the law on their side, and they know it, and their 



344 T. story's conversations, etc. 

highest regard is to their own interest ; and you have more 
authority among your people, by your excommunications in 
your monthly and quarterly meetings, &c., than I have in the 
Church, by all the laws of the nation, ecclesiastical and civil. 
I call it excommunication ; you will not take that word amiss^ 
that is our way of expressing it." 

I answered, That we did not take any exceptions at the 
word; it was very significant, and expressive of the thing; 
only we think excommunication ought not to reach so far as 
they extended it ; it should not extend to men's liberty, pro- 
perty, or persons. What we mean by excommunication is 
this : When any one among us goes into any immoral prac- 
tices or acts, and after due admonition persists in anything 
contrary to the Christian faith and religion (as we understand 
it), we deny such an one Christian communion, or to be a 
member of our society, until he repent, and, by better con- 
duct, give ample proof of his reformation and sincerity. And 
when such a delinquent is become a true penitent, and desires 
to be reconciled to the body, we apprehend it is as much the 
duty of the society to receive him when so stated, as before to 
bear witness against him, and deny (or excommunicate) him. 
The bishop made no reply to this ; but only said, '^ It is im- 
moral in any one, of any society, to break or reject the rules 
and orders of the society he belongs to, or makes profession 
with ; I say such persons are immoral, and are not fit for any 
communion." 

Speaking of the maintenance of the clergy, and their insist- 
ing on the law only for it, he said, " As to the right of our 
maintenance as ministers, whether of Divine right or by the 
laws only, we are divided in our sentiments on that point. 
There are about fourteen thousand of the clergy in this nation 
(as I remember he said), and I do not know on which side of 
the question the majority may be : But for my own part, for 
me to think I have this house (lifting up his hand towards the 
ceiling), or my bishopric by Divine right, there is nothing in 
it; only, as these are advantages annexed to an office by the 
laws of the land, which office I enjoy by the favor of the 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 345 

prince, so I receive and hold it, and no otherwise/' This I 
deemed a frank and honest confession, and could not but 
respect him for it. 

Again, upon my mentioning the severity and envy of some 
of the inferior clergy against us, he granted, " That these 
things brought an odium upon themselves, and wrought against 
them ; and added, that he was against persecution in any 
degree or form ; and that if he was incumbent in any parish, 
he would never sue any of our friends for his dues." And 
then related to us the following passage : " That a clergyman 
of his acquaintance having a presentation offered him to a 
church in London, a friend of his would have dissuaded him 
from accepting it, because (said he) there are many Quakers 
in the parish, and you must either lose a great part of your 
dues, or be perpetually at law and trouble about them, which 
is not agreeable to your temper and quietude. But (said the 
bishop), the gentleman replied, that notwithstanding the num- 
ber of Quakers in the parish, I will accept it, and accordingly 
did; and being gentle and neighborly among them, and never 
suing any of them, they took it so well that they generally 
made up his dues some other way, and they lived very peacea- 
bly together." 

To this I replied, that it being matter of conscience in all 
of us that are true to our principles, we could not justify any 
of our Friends in taking any by-ways, or equivocal methods to 
elude our profession in that case ; for whatsoever any man pro- 
fesseth as any part or incident of the Christian religion, he 
ought to be sincere therein ; and it were more manly and 
Christian to act openly as one is inwardly persuaded, than to 
profess one thing openly, and act another contrary in secret : 
for that is hypocrisy, and we would not have one such among 

TIS. 

Then I related to the bishop how far we think any society 
of Christians may and ought to contribute to the necessary 
charge of a Gospel ministry, and how that matter stands among 
us at this day. That we believe the true Gospel ministry 
and Christian religion comes not by tradition, imitation, or 



346 T. story's conversations, etc. 

succession, as from the apostles and primitives, but immedi- 
ately from Christ himself; who, according to his promise, hath 
ever been with his Church, and ever will be, to the end of the 
world, as a fountain of life and salvation unto her : that he 
only hath right and power to call, sanctify, and qualify whom- 
soever he pleaseth, as ministers and officers in his congrega- 
tion, or amongst his people ; which is of his own seeking, 
congregationing, baptizing, and saving, by the revelation, ope- 
ration, and agency of his Holy Spirit. And we observe that 
now, as in times past, he taketh the weak things of this world 
whereby to overpower the strong, and foolish whereby to con- 
found the wisdom of the wise, that no flesh may boast before 
him. And when at any time we are sitting together in silence 
(as we usually do), waiting upon the Almighty for the influ- 
ence of his Holy Spirit, that we may be comforted, refreshed, 
and edified thereby, if any one hath his understanding en- 
lightened thereby into any edifying matter, and moved and 
enabled to speak, the rest have proper qualifications, by the 
same Spirit, to discern and judge, both of the soundness of 
his speech and matter, and also of the spirit and fountain from 
which his ministry doth arise; and if from the Holy Spirit of 
Christ, who is Truth, it hath acceptance with the congrega- 
tion, and though but in a few words, it is comfortable and edi- 
fying ; for as the palate tasteth meats, so the ear, or discerning 
faculties of an illuminated, sanctified mind, distinguisheth 
words, and the fountain from which they spring. And such 
a person thus appearing, may so appear at another time, and 
be enlarged in word and in power, and so on gradually, till he 
hath given proof of his ministry to his friends and brethren, 
among whom, in the neighborhood, he hath been exercised 
therein, until he becomes a workman in the Gospel, in some 
good degree fitted for the service ; and then it may so happen, 
as often it doth, that this person is moved or called by the word 
of God, to travel in this service in some other places remote 
from his habitation, which will take him off from his business 
whereby he maintains himself, his wife and family ; and sup- 
pose him to be a cobbler of old shoes, a patcher or translator 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 347 

of old clothes, or the meanest mechanic that can be named, 
poor, and not able to fit himself with common necessaries for 
his journey, he wanteth a horse (though some only walk), 
clothing and the like ; in such a case the Friends of the meet- 
ing to which he belongs provide all such things, and furnish 
him. And if in that service he is so lono; from home as that 
his horse fails, and his clothes wear out, and necessaries are 
wanting unto him, then the Friends where he travels, where 
his service is acceptable, take care to furnish him till he re- 
turns to his family and business. And in the time of his 
absence from them, some Friend or Friends of the neighbor- 
hood visit his family, advise in his business, and charitably 
promote it till he return. But as to any other temporal advan- 
tages, or selfish motive of reward for such service, there is no 
such thing among us : for if our ministers should have the 
least view that way, and insisted upon it, or our people were 
willing to gratify that desire, we should then conclude we were 
gone off from the true foundation of Christ and his apostles, 
and become apostates. But though our principles allow such 
assistance to our ministers as I have related; yet I have not 
known any instance (save one) of any such help : for by the 
good providence of God our ministers have generally sufficient 
of their own to support the charge of their travels in that ser- 
vice, and are unwilling that the Gospel should be chargeable 
to any ; only as their ministry makes way where they come, 
their company is acceptable to their friends, who afford them 
to eat and drink and lodge with them for a night or two, more 
or less, as there may be occasion ; which being freely given, 
and freely received, we think is like unto the primitives, under 
the immediate conduct of the same Lord, our Saviour and 
Director. 

The bishop heard all these things with patience and candor, 
not showing the least dislike to any part of what passed among 
us; and being ended, he said a little pleasantly, "Then you 
are like Paul and Barnabas, and we are like Silas and Timothy; 
you travel abroad to propagate the faith of Christ, and we 
remain at home, taking care of things there." And though 



348 T. story's conversations, etc. 

it was on the second day, wlien usually visited by his clergy, 
he stayed with us alone till about the. middle of the day, and at 
our departure said, '^Gentlemen, let us, in our several stations, 
endeavor to promote universal love, good-will, and charity 
amongst mankind ; and I pray God bless you and prosper you 
in your undertakings ', for we ought to pray for one another, 
and desire the best things one for another/' And so we de- 
parted in peace and satisfaction. 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 349 



CHAPTER XLYIII. 

THE BISHOP OF YORK. 

SIR WILLIAM DAWES, BART. 

1721. 

THE AFFIEMATION xVCT. 

Going to the Bishop of York to solicit his favor and concur- 
rence in the House of Lords, for altering the terms of our 
solemn Affirmation, as they then stood in the x\cts of Parliament 
relating thereto, being sucli as the body of our Friends dis- 
liked, and could not comply with, the bishop upon that occa- 
sion said, '' I am for liberty of conscience where that is truly 
the case : but there is a sort of people in this nation, who dis- 
sent from the Church on the pretence of conscience, and yet can 
occasionally seek for offices and places of profit in the govern- 
ment (meaning the Presbyterians and their other sectaries) j 
I cannot call this conscience, but humor." I replied, I am 
of the same mind ', but that is not our case ; for we want no 
places or offices in the government, but an exemption from 
such laws as tend to obstruct us in our duty and service to the 
Almighty, in such manner as we are in truth and sincerity 
persuaded in our consciences we ought to worship, fear, serve, 
and obey him, without any view to any other interest. 

Then said the bishop, " The words of the affirmation that 
now is are a solemn oath, and so we (meaning the clergy) 
always, from the beginning, have understood them." I replied, 
I know you have : For Dr. Tillotson, when Dean of Paul's, 
being required to preach a sermon before the judges of the 
assize at Kingston upon Thames, took his text in these words, 
" Men verily swear by the greater, and an oath is, to them, an 
end of all strife •/' from which he raised a discourse, intending 
therein to prove, that oaths in judicature were not only lawful, 
30 



350 T. story's conversations, etc. 

but necessary under the Gospel, as well as under the law. In 
which discourse he defines an oath in these words, or to this 
effect : " An oath is a solemn appeal to God, as a witness of 
the truth of what we say.'' Which sermon being printed 
before we applied to the legislature for relief against oaths, 
and the reasoning therein supposed to be strong in support of 
judicial swearing, that Parliament would not grant us any 
relief in any other terms but in the words of the doctor's defi- 
nition of an oath, a little improved. For whereas he saith in 
his sermon, an oath, which is a solemn appeal to God as a 
witness of the truth, &c., the parliament added the word 
Almighty to the word God, setting forth the Supreme Being 
in his highest attribute as a witness in the most trivial cases 
occurring among the children of men, whilst a mortal sitteth 
as judge in the cause. And whereas the particle a might 
denote the Most High as a witness only on the level with 
other witnesses, the parliament wisely and more reverently 
changed the particle a to the more proper words the witness, 
by way of supereminence, as justly due : For where the 
God of Truth is witness, there needeth no other; and to 
suppose there doth, is derogatory to his divine majesty, 
and blasphemous : of which many of our people were aware, 
and therefore shunned it, and could not comply; though 
some others, not so well apprised of the nature of an oath, did 
use it : But we, as a body of people, never agreed to it ; for 
our yearly meeting, which represents us and our principles in 
the most collective and general manner, hath always agreed to 
solicit the government for a more proper form, when it might 
please God to incline their hearts to so much goodness ; and we, 
hoping this is the time, have proposed the form now before 
the House. The bishop replied, ^'That he was not our enemy, 
but could not stay at that time to see or hear any more on that 
subject, being under an appointment about some business;" 
and so we parted. 

Some days after this I went to him again, accompanied only 
by John Irwin : The bishop was alone, and received us very 
courteously, and we renewed our applications to him on the 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 351 

same account; and then the bishop was more plain with us, 
and said " that he could not be for us on that account : for 
though he did believe that the words of the affirmation, as 
they then stood, were as solemn an oath as could be invented 
by the wit of man, he understood our Friends had generally 
complied with them on every pinching or needful occasion, as 
he ha3 been informed by persons of unquestionable credit, 
who had been exercised in the Court of Chancery. He added, 
that if there were any considerable number of us who consci- 
entiously scrupled the words, it ought to be duly considered 
by the House, and relief granted ; but to alter the laws for a 
very few, could hardly comport with prudence, since the par- 
liament would greatly incur the censure of the people of the 
nation if they should do it : And added, that he could not see 
any reason why such of us as took the affirmation should be 
exempted from the common oaths of the nation/' By which 
I perceived he and they would have divided us if they could. 

To this I replied, that since the bishop himself understood 
the words in the present act to be a solemn oath, I hoped he 
could not blame us, since it was matter of conscience (to 
which he was a professed friend), if sincere to our principles, 
though but a few, that we made application for a form of a 
milder nature, in which nothing like an oath was contained. 
But as to the numbers on either side of the question among 
us, the petitioners, the proceedings against us in chancery, or 
any other courts, could not determine ; for few, in comparison 
of the body of our people, are prosecuted there : and as there 
may be some who comply, as not believing the words in the 
law to amount to an oath, there are others also who have been 
prosecuted therein, who have so far scrupled them, as rather 
to suffer the hard measures of the law than comply with that 
form. 

Then said John Irwin, ^' The bishop is misinformed in this 
point; for I live in the north of England, and know that there 
are very few of our Friends in all these parts who comply with 
the terms of the present affirmation on any account, but gene- 
rally suffer the force of the laws, rather than yield to a thing 



352 T. story's conversations, etc. 

contrary to conscience : And I have likewise, not long ago, tra- 
velled through most parts of the west and south of this nation; 
and upon a general observation, find that the greatest part of 
our Friends everywhere are averse to the present affirmation, 
and decline to use it as much as they can/' 

This I confirmed by adding, That I also had, for some years 
past, travelled through most parts of the world where our 
people are, and observed, that they are generally principled 
against the form of the present affirmation : and this endeavor 
for further ease and liberty of conscience in the case, is by 
consent and direction of our whole body, represented in our 
yearly meeting here in London, and not by any particular 
party or side only : So that I hope thy objection (as to a few) 
is fully answered : And if there were but a few in a nation 
under that circumstance, charity ought not to be withheld for 
that reason, since the " eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, 
and his ears are open to their cry." 

And as the bishop had asserted, '' That the words of the 
former affirmation were a solemn oath, and wished that all the 
judicial oaths of the nation were in that form" (and that party 
seemed to intend it, and thereby elude our testimony against 
swearing), it gradually drew the question into our discourse, 
Whether Christ, in his doctrine, had prohibited all swearing; 
they commonly alleging he only forbid profane swearing in 
conversation, but not swearing in evidence ? I assumed the 
affirmative. That the Lord Christ hath abolished all oaths out 
of his Church; and alleged for proof the 5th chapter of 
Matthew, where he saith, " Except your righteousness shall 
exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, you 
shall in no case enter the kingdom of Heaven :" And then, in 
several points, sets forth what their righteousness did amount 
to; viz., '^ You have heard it was said by them of • old time, 
Thou shalt not commit adultery ; but I say unto you, that who- 
soever looketh on a woman to lust after her, hath committed 
adultery with her already in his heart." Here by taking away 
the cause, which is an unlawful desire in the heart, he prevents 
the act, and makes it impossible, where there is no conception 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 353 

of desire ; for there begins the sin. Again, " You have heard 
it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt love thy 
neighbor (or friend) and hate thine enemy; but I say unto 
you, Love your enemies,'' &c. Now where the heart is filled 
with the love of Grod, in which Christ laid down his life for 
mankind whilst yet enemies, in which we can have love and 
compassion even for enemies, the cause of fighting, and de- 
stroying one another as enemies, is taken away; men are 
reconciled unto Grod through Christ, and one unto another in 
him ; and, so abiding, cannot fight or destroy any more ; as it 
is written, " There shall none hurt or destroy in all my holy 
mountain, saith the Lord." Thus far in parables to introduce 
and illustrate the point in question, and now home to that, 
^' You have heard it hath been said by them of old time. Thou 
shalt not forswear thyself, but perform unto the Lord thine 
oaths ; but I say unto you. Swear not at all." Here the Lord 
begins with oaths of the highest nature, used under the law 
on the most solemn occasions ; which whosoever falsified were 
perjured : and where there is swearing there may be perjury; 
but where there is no swearing, there can be no perjury : 
where the cause is taken away, the efi"ects will cease : And as 
he all along advanceth the moralities of the Gospel above that 
of the law, in all other instances, so in this also : for if he had 
only forbid profane swearing, he had done no more than Moses 
had done in the point ; where it is said, " Thou shalt not take 
the name of the Lord thy God in vain ;" which command every 
one breaks, in a most impious sense, who swears in conversation. 
The Lord having thus prohibited the once lawful oaths, he 
proceeds to explain the tendency of their invented oaths, which 
they used in conversation, and on small occasions, the breach 
whereof tbey did not seem to think was perjury : "Neither 
shalt thou swear by Heaven ; for it is God's throne, and he 
who swearetb by the throne of God, sweareth by him who 
sitteth thereon : neither shalt thou swear by the earth ; for it 
is his footstool :" and, by parity of consequence, he that 
sweareth by the footstool of God, sweareth by him whose foot- 
stool it is. ^ Neither shalt thou swear by Jerusalem ; for it is 
30* 



854 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

tlie city of tlie great King : Nor by thy head ; because thou 
canst not make one hair white or black :" both which result 
and terminate the same way ; such swear by the Lord, the 
King of kings, whose name and temple was placed in Jeru- 
salem in the time of the law ; and the head, as all the parts of 
man, being formed of the Lord, to swear thereby is to swear by 
his Maker. Thus swearing by Heaven, earth, Jerusalem, the 
altar, the gold thereon, the head, or any creature, every oath 
is forbidden in conversation, as well as judicial swearing ; " but 
let your conversation" (and communication) "be yea, yea, nay, 
nay; for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil ;'^ of the 
evil one, which is the Devil. Leave off lying, " and every man 
speak truth to his neighbor;" and use no higher asseveration 
in your speech, than redoubling your yea on solemn occasions ; 
as by example of your Lord, verily, verily. 

The bishop heard me with patience ; and, which gave me 
some surprise, he made no other reply than this, *' Your 
interpretation of that Scripture is just." Then he said, " I 
read your books : I have read Barclay : He is no contemptible 
author; yet I think he might be answered in some points." 

I replied, That any ingenious person, reading the works of 
another, with design to find fault, may find something, espe- 
cially in a large performance, that he may think amiss, or 
wrest to such an appearance as he would have it ; But every 
work should be examined with an impartial view, by a mind 
not prejudiced or prepossessed, comparing one part with an- 
other, till the true mind, intent, and meaning of the writer be 
discovered ; and then, if any real error appear, to confute it 
by obvious truths ; which needeth no gloss, or color of 
sophistry : but when an opponent subtilly and wilfully wrests 
the words of his antagonist, and imposeth a meaning thereon 
the author did not intend, this opponent is a forger, combating 
his own invention, militates against himself, and is fdo de se 
in argument. 

Upon this the bishop generously acknowledged, " That no 
man ought to oppose the works of another, till he was fully 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 355 

master of the author's real sense,- and did at least believe it to 
be wrong or heterodox." 

Then I said, That we had met with very hard usage in the 
House of Lords, and particularly by the Bishop of Rochester 
(the same that afterwards was banished for treasonable prac- 
tices) ; that at the same time when we, as a Christian people, 
were addressing the legislature of our native country for liberty 
of conscience, to serve God and our Lord Jesus Christ in the 
way we judge most acceptable to him, to be branded and 
accused, in such a place and time, and on such an occasion, as 
not being Christians, but compared, by him, with Jews, 
Pagans, and Mahometans ! 'tis very uncharitable, to say the 
least. 

The bishop replied, '' I do not approve that usage of you ; 
but he explained himself to mean no more than that you are 
not perfect Christians ; that is, in the way we initiate people 
into reli2;ion.'' 

I answered. Then it remains for you to prove, that none 
can be perfect Christians, unless initiated (at least) by you, or 
after your manner. It being then near twelve o'clock, the 
bishop did not think proper to enter upon that subject. And, 
as he had said in the sequel of this discourse, he had read our 
books, I asked him, if he had seen one styled A Treatise of 
Oaths, wrote by William Penn ? He said " he had not." 
Then I said, We had abundance of votes collected there, out 
of the writings of those you call Fathers, on our side, against 
swearing in any case or way. To which he replied, " That we 
ought not to depend upon numbers only, but consider the 
weight also." Granted, said I ; but you have neither weight 
nor number (that ever I have heard of) on your side; for all who 
wrote on that subject in the Primitive Church, wrote against 
swearing, and not one in support of it under the Gospel ; but 
that crept in gradually, with other errors, as the Church more 
and more degenerated into Jewish and antichristian practices 
in many instances. 

Then this good-tempered and affable bishop requested "That 
if we had any books we valued more than others, I would 



35G T. story's conversations, etc. 

oblige him with, a sight of them/' which I gave him some 
expectation of; and, at parting, he took me by the hand, as 
we passed out of the room in which we were into another 
towards the door, and said, ^^I desire your prayers for me, as 
I also pray for you ; we ought all to pray one for another." 
And so we parted in peace and good-will, not the least word 
of warmth or a scornful look having appeared in all this con- 
ference. I made inquiry after such of our books as I thought 
proper for him ; but he going soon after into his diocese of 
York, and I into Suffolk, and cross the country into the West 
in the service of Truth, which took about seven months' time, 
I had no opportunity to see him till I returned to London, and 
then went to his house in the Strand for that purpose; but he 
not happening to be within, and my concerns not allowing me 
another opportunity for some weeks, in the mean time he was 
taken ill of the distemper whereof he died, so that I did not 
see him any more : though his death, through the respect I 
had conceived for his good qualities, affected me with a 
friendly concern ; for he had as much of the gentleman as 
bishop in. him, and the former seemed rather predominant. 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 357 

CHAPTER XLIX. 
DR. BRADFORD, BISHOP OF CARLISLE. 

1721. 

THE AFFIKMATIOX ACT. 

Peter Fearon^ an ancient minister, and Jolin Irwio, 
aforesaid, being Cumberland men, went to solicit Dr. Bradford, 
then Bishop of Carlisle, in our favor, concerning the affirma- 
tion aforesaid, and altering the terms : on occasion "whereof he 
entered into an argument with them on the point of oaths 
under the Gospel, asserting, as usual, That Christ did only 
forbid swearing in communication ; but how they managed the 
point I know not, because not present, and do not remember 
they related to me the particulars ; but as they intended to 
make him another visit on the same account, they desired my 
company on that occasion, and provided the Treatise of Oaths 
aforesaid, as a present to him. ^Vnd we went to him together, 
finding none with him but Sykes, a moderate clergy- 
man, the same that printed a sermon on these words of 
Christ, " My kingdom is not of this world,'' before Benjamin 
Hoadley, then Bishop of Bangor, preached his on the same 
text, which made so much noise among themselves and the 
nation. The bishop received us mildly and courteously, order- 
ing seats to be set for us near himself; and having heard our 
application for his favor concerning further ease by a new 
affirmation, and returned us a moderate and favorable answer, 
he began again upon the subject of oaths, endeavoring to per- 
suade us to think, that Christ only prohibited oaths in common 
conversation or communication : in which Sykes like- 
wise concurred : but they grounding their opinion only upon 
the word communication in our English translation, and the 
other two Friends leaving the matter to me, I answered. That 



358 T. story's conversations, etc. 

if Christ did not prohibit all oaths in that doctrine, he did not 
advance the morality and righteousness of the Gospel above 
that of the law in that point, as in every other particular there 
mentioned, he certainly did; and added, that there is not a 
word in that text, which by any tolerable construction, or by 
any propriety, can be rendered communication from the Greek 
original : for the word is Aoyoq (the same used in the 1st of 
John), signifying word (or speech); which word is truth, 
signifying that the righteousness of the Gospel, abolishing 
oaths of all kinds, requires mankind to speak the truth one to 
another in honesty and sincerity, in all cases, as surely and 
certainly as they could upon oath. And then desired the 
bishop to inspect his Greek Testament on that occasion, which 
he readily did ; and returning from his library, confessed that 
the word there translated communication, was Aoyoq in Greek, 
and did not offer any further argument upon the subject. 
Then I gave him the book which the Friends had put into 
my hands, telling him it was writ on that subject, and desired 
him to peruse it at his leisure ; and so we left him in friend- 
ship and peace. 

Some time after this being in London, Walter Newbury and 
I went to the bishop again, to request his favor in the House 
of Lords concerning the affirmation ; and he was come down 
to his hall, ready to take the air in his coach in the park, but 
stopped when he saw us come in, and received us kindly, and 
presently said, " I have read your book, and I will fetch it 
you.^' I answered. It was given him as a present, and desired 
it might be acceptable. He thanked me, and immediately 
said, "That he believed that Christ and his apostles had forbid 
all oaths and swearing, and that the time would come when 
there would not be any such thing in the Christian world ;" 
but added, ^'•That the present state and circumstances of man- 
kind could not bear such an exemption ;" and said, ''That you 
will own that some even among yourselves, in whom some im- 
moralities appear, are not fit for the liberty and exemption you 
request for your people." 

I answered, That as mankind come into this world only in 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. ' 359 

a natural state, our issue are as others in that respect; and 
where not subject to the example and instructions given them, 
may, and some of them do, degenerate into immoral practices 
of some sorts : though our Society takes all practicable care to 
prevent it, according to the stated rules among us, and by all 
Christian ways and means. We pray for them, we example 
them, admonish, advise, exhort, reprove, and rebuke them as 
need may require ; and after all, if any one among us persist in 
evil, we proceed against such according to the Rules of our 
Society, finally to deny them as not of our communion ; and 
that is all we do, or think we ought to do, in such cases. 
And though some particular persons among us may not, in 
their younger times, come fully up in all things into the 
perfection of our profession ; yet we hope in the main, as a 
Christian society, we do. And though some among us do fall 
into things disagreeable to our profession ; yet bearing false 
witness being so great an evil, and so easily discovered, we 
hope none among us would be guilty of it; but if any should, 
let the penalty of perjury be fully inflicted upon him : and 
therefore we are encourged to make this application. And 
since thou art pleased to acknowledge thy sentiments that 
Christ and his apostles by their doctrine have prohibited all 
oaths and swearing of every kind, there must be a time 
wherein it must be begun, to be put in practice by some 
certain person, persons or community. A nation is not born 
in a day ; nor did the Lord Jesus himself call and convert all 
his disciples at once; it was a gradual work, though in the 
hand of him by whom the worlds were made. And as the 
Christian world (so called) hath sufi'ered an exceeding great 
lapse and degeneracy from the doctrines, morality, sanctity, 
and practice of Christ and his apostles, and the other early 
primitives; so in the main they are more antichristians than 
Christians, and the xllmighty, who makes choice of the foolish 
things of this world, whereby to confound the wisdom of the 
wise, the weak whereby to overcome the mighty, and even 
things that are not, to bring to nought things that are (^" that 
no flesh may glory before him"), hath raised up and chosen 



360 T. story's conversations, etc. 

us as a people, in and by whom to begin this reformation in 
religion, in doctrine, and practice j not by human power, for 
it is against us, nor by the wisdom of this world, of which we 
have little, or the learning or acquirements thereof, which we 
do not pursue ; but by the same grace through which our Lord 
Jesus Christ laid down his life upon the cross for the redemp- 
tion of mankind; wherewith, being mercifully favored of God, 
and having believed through the operation thereof in our hearts, 
we have hitherto suffered all things for his name's sake, which 
hath been permitted to be inflicted upon us by this and other 
nations, where we have been raised up, or have come : And 
we hope we have given Christian proof of our sincerity, to 
the minds of all sober and thinking people, that our religion 
is not some select notions of certain Gospel truths, but a real and 
practical thing; wherein we are supported, by the wisdom 
and power of God alone, as witnesses for him on earth, and to 
the redemption and salvation brought to pass for us and in 
us through Jesus Christ our Lord. And since ye profess 
yourselves to be Christian bishops (for we applied to them all), 
and we apply to you for relief where our consciences are yet 
oppressed by laws, and where you, by your offices in the 
National Church, have a share for the time being, in the 
legislature, who, under the Almighty alone, can relieve us ; 
if you will not, in your stations, contribute what you may 
towards that relief, at whose door will the oppression lie ? 

The bishop heard me with Christian patience, and said, 
^' We (meaning the bishops and former parliament) did not 
grant the affirmation that now is under any other view, on 
our part, than as a solemn oath; for so we always understood 
it, and we thought your people had acquiesced under it : but 
seeing it does not suit you, I am for liberty for tender con- 
sciences, where that is the case. I am your friend herein." 
Then we returned him our hearty acknowledgments; upon 
which he took us by the hands, and gave us his good wishes, 
and we departed in peace and satisfaction. He was, after the 
banishment of Atterbury, Bishop of Kochester, before men- 
tioned in my conference with the Bishop of York, translated 
Cas their term is) into the Sec of Rochester. 



TEIE AFFIRMATION ACT. 301 

CHAPTER L. 
THE DUKE OF SOMERSET. 

1721. 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. 

The day whereon the act passed, in the morning, along with 
some others, I w^aited on the Duke of Somerset, at Northum- 
berland House, by Charing Cross, to solicit his favor ; and on 
that occasion I acquainted him that 1 had heard, as I came, 
that both Universities intended to petition against us, as the 
clergy in and about Loudon had already done ; which might 
give us much more trouble and delay, if not bring our bill in 
danger • and therefore entreated that he would please to use 
his interest for the passing it into a law that day. Upon this 
he said, " Perhaps Oxford may attempt something that way, 
being influenced by the Bishops of York, Chester, Rochester, 
and the rest of that sort ; but if they should, they are obnox- 
ious, and will not be heard : and as to Cambridge, they have 
done nothing, and I being their head, they can do nothing 
without me; and, to make you easy, they shall not do any- 
thing against you in this concern. ^^ And then he said, 
^' There are a company of fellows, calling themselves the 
clergy, in and about the city of London, who have sent in a 
petition ; wherein they pretend to blame both houses of par- 
liament for encouraging a sect, which they rank with Jews, 
Turks, and other infidels ; as if we were to be imposed upon 
by them, and receive their dictates, or knew not what we had 
to do without their directions ; and besides, we do not know 
who they are ; for there are above five hundred of the clergy 
in and about London, and we find only forty-one names to 
their petition, and these very obscure. liYhere is their Sher- 
31 



362 T. story's CONVERSATIONS; ETC. 

lock, their Waterland, or any of note amongst them ? Do 
these fellows see any corn growing in the streets of London, 
that they should meddle in this case ?'^ 

Then I informed the duke, that I had also heard that 
morning, that many of the petitioners were three-penny cu- 
rates and unbeneficed. 

The duke asked, "What are they?'^ I replied. That I had 
been informed they were poor clergymen, without benefices, 
and had but few friends, and perhaps some of them nonjurors, 
who hang on about the town, looking for preferment; and, 
being very indigent, say prayers for the richer sort for three 
pence a time, which is paid; two pence in farthings, and a 
dish of coffee. 

This first occasioned the duke to smile, and afterward drew 
from him some warm expressions of resentment, that the 
poorer sort should live so abjectly, whilst the rich were so 
high ; but most of all, that the rich should set so low a price 
on the services of their poor brethren, who did the work : 
And then he added, '' We (meaning the legislature) know 
how to apply a remedy, and relieve them ; it is but to take 
off the pluralities, and make more equal distribution, and then 
these poor fellows may be better provided for, and live." 

Finding the duke in a temper to bear it at that time (for 
he was a great man, and naturally of a very high spirit, but 
good sense), I replied. That the pluralities had, for many 
ages, been complained of as a very unreasonable thing in the 
Church of Rome, where it first began, long before the time 
of the reformation of the National Church of England ; and 
I have read a sermon of a good old reformer on that subject, 
one Bernard Gilpin, who composed it in Edward VI.'s time, 
with design to have preached it before that prince ; but his 
opponents contrived some means to procure the king's absence 
at the time, yet the sermon was preached, inveighing heavily 
against pluralities as a great abuse : Where then can the 
obstruction lie, that it is not reformed at this day? 

To this he made no reply, but said, " I am ready to go to 



THE AFFIRMATION ACT. . 363 

the House, where I would not have gone this day, but only to 
serve you/' 

That day, before noon, the act was passed as now it is ; for 
which we were thankful, first to the Lord for his great good- 
ness, in inclining the heart of the king, and those of both 
Houses, so much to favor us ; and next to them likewise, as 
instruments in his hand of so good a work, and so great an 
ease and help to us. 

NOTE. — The form of the affirmation allowed by the Act of 1605, 
was, "1, A. B., do declare in the presence of Almighty God, the 
witness of the truth of what I say." 

The form allowed by the Act of 1721, and perpetuated to this 
day, is, "I, A. B., do solemnly, sincerely, and truly declare and 
affirm." Gougli's History of the People called Quakers. 



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